Bill’s SUL Gear List

[Bill Fornshell]

Ryan Asked:
Q1-do you use cuben for the shell and lining of your quilt?

A1- Yes, for the one i am working on I am using the Cuben material for shell and lining. The goal is the lighest possible end weight.

Q2-Cuben Data-on the cuben fiber website is the “Break” the tear strength, if so I think the .2 oz style will be strong enough

A2- On the “break” question” I have no idea. There is a Big problem with the Cuben web site. The data list is what they could make if your order was large enough. Like 1000 to 1500 yards.

For a long time the lighest weight Cuben material I could get was the 0.44oz (+/-) sq yard material. They now have some a little lighter maybe 0.35oz.

Q3- If I use the design on the newsushi.net site with cuben and a high power down could I make a sub 10 oz quilt?

A3- Well yes, you can make a sub 10oz quilt that will have about 8.5oz of Down in it. That quilt size seems to need about 2.33sq yards of material for the shell and the lining. If you use that 2.33 sq yards times the weight of a sq yard of the Cuben at 0.44oz per sq yard you end up with 1.03oz of Cuben material. Then sub that from your 10oz goal and you get about 8.97oz plus. Add some weight for sewing and you should end up with maybe 8.5oz(+/-). This then is how much Down you will have. The temperature range with this amount of Down might be good for 25 to 30 degrees or so.

Q4-what silk did you use in your baffles?
A4- I used 5mm silk. This is about 0.64oz per sq yard.

the cuben snow you speak of sounds virtually unavalible. – YES –

I know you can get 800 fill down from thru-hiker.com

Q5-do you know where I could get some 900 fill?
A5- Ed Speer Hammocks –

http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/PRODUCTLINK2.htm

[Ryan Faulkner]

thanks, once I get a sewing machine and get the feel for it this will be one of my first projects.

so I guess there is no .2oz fabric???

can you use cuben in the baffles??

cuben is not breathable, correct???

[Bill Fornshell]

From Young Ryan:
Q1-so I guess there is no .2oz fabric???
A1- not at this time.

Q2-can you use cuben in the baffles??
A2- ?? I use the silk baffles in the Cuben shell. I make all my baffles as a stand alone item. I want to be able to pull the baffles out of the shell and use them for something else maybe.

Q3- cuben is not breathable, correct???
A3- Correct, not at this time.

[Ryan Faulkner]

sorry for all the ?`s Bill, but I am looking forward to making my own gear and need some advice.(and the cubenfiber site confuses me)

[Miguel Arboleda]

I asked this a few days ago on another thread, but I’ll try here. Bill, you mentioned your DAM a number of times and I know I’ve read somewhere about how you made it, but so far I haven’t been able to relocate the discussion again.

What is the shell of the DAM made of, Cuben? And what are the air tubes made of? Also Cuben? Are the air tubes filled with down? If so, do you use a screen at the opening of the tubes to block the down from escaping? How would this screen be secured to the air tube? Glue? How are the air tubes closed? And do you just blow air directly into them with your mouth? How is the DAM in terms of strength? Do you need to protect it well from the ground?

Sorry for all the questions, but since ordering materials from Japan is very expensive I want to be sure that I get more or less the right materials from the start, so I need to clear things up somewhat before I start.

Thanks.

[Bill Fornshell]

Ryan, You have one or two products to pick from, Period.

One is product CTO.6K.08 about 0.44oz per sq yard.

Two is product CTO.3K.08 about 0.35oz per sq yard.

You will not find these on their web site yet. I got some of the CTO.3k.08 last week but have not done anything with it except take it out of the shipping tube look at it and put it back in the shipping tube. It is 48″ wide.

I wish I could say more.

Cuben is a boat sail material maker, first. I started trying to get samples and then buy some of their material about a year ago. It took about 4 months to get samples and then about another month to buy my first fiber from them. They are really fast now that they can take a credit card. They see the Backpacking world as a new market and are trying to understand us and what we want. They are not really set-up for orders of a yard or two at one time. The fiber is made in “panels” of just over 9 yards. They would like to sell their fiber by the panel. Once I understood that my orders are now by the panel. This is a purchase of 9 plus yards at a time and at a cost of about $150. This is not to say they will not sell a yard or two but that they are not setup to do that easy. Once they announce web sales in a few months this may or may not change.

Cuben has been very nice to me and even call when they have something new. My point of contact at Cuben is a backpacker and very interested in us as a new market.

[Ryan Faulkner]

Bill I can tell you are getting a little annoied with all my questions, but you have answerd enough to keep me quite for a while.

thanks a million.

[Bill Fornshell]

Miguel D Arboleda:

I am sorry I didn’t get you an answer. It really is a long story. I had a Thread that ran about a year as I was working on my first version Poly-Tube Air Mattress then Down Air Mattress DAM, then Dam/Down Top Cover Sleep System. The thread is now hard to find at that site so I have been posting it message by message on a Blog. The Blog for the DAM is in four long sections. This link will get you to Part 1 to 12.
Link to DAM Blog Part 1 to 12

Link to all Sections

Take a little time and read over the DAM information and then ask away.

As a Note the DAM etc was made before I knew of Cuben Fiber.

[Bill Fornshell]

Ryan I edited the post above with the two product numbers.

[Ryan Faulkner]

thanks again

[Miguel Arboleda]

Thanks Bill for the information and the links. I’m going to read through your blog entries and see what I can learn. It’s a real help to see your blog (and thanks for signing up for my own blog a while back… I’ve been somewhat caught up with other things lately and haven’t had time to post there, but I hope to get back to it soon) and see how you think things through.

I’ve been curious about the comments a while back saying that Cuben Fibre is the same as BPL’s Nano fabric. Is that true? I haven’t seen either fabric, of course, so I guess it really ought not to make any difference to me at the moment.

If you would make your DAM mattress again, would you use the Cuben now? And isn’t there a problem with condensation under your quilt if you’ve made it out of Cuben?

Thanks again.

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Miguel, I really like how you do your Blog and your pictures are great. I hope to get back to Japan and spent a month or so sometime in the next couple of years. I want to get a rail pass and travel and hike all the typical places. I have several “hike” in Japan books and a couple of their great maps. I was able to get up into the mountains North of Kyoto when I was there a few years ago. I ran into a Japanese couple who were concerned that I was lost. They spoke good English and we had a good time talking about what I was doing. I showed them my map and compass and then we had a good laugh. They fixed me coffee and gave me some of the best sweets. We talked awhile and then I went on. I saw them later when I had gotten back to the road and they gave me a ride back to Kyoto.

I think I can say without Ryan being upset that his “nano” line is using some Cuben Fiber. Cuben makes several different product numbers and I have no-way of knowing what weight product Ryan is using. I have samples of 5 different product numbers. The lightest is out of stock at this time though I did get a small piece of it. The weight of my 5 samples are 0.29 – 0.44 – 0.52 – 0.59 and 0.66oz per sq yard. I was only interested in the lightest, but have had to settle for the 0.44oz per sq yard. I was told that the strength goes up fast with the heavier material. Cuben did just make a run of something they call (about) 0.35oz per sq yard and I have some. I have not cut a piece yet to check the weight for myself. All the Cuben material is very strong.

As for a DAM out of the Cuben material, yes. I am working on a Down quilt like item at this time and then I will make a Cuben DAM to work with it. The quilt will have 3.5+ inches of loft and will weight at or less than 16oz. This amount of Down loft should give me a quilt good for about “0” degrees F. I don’t know how well it will work but will find out. The DAM (30″ by 78″) will also have 3.5″ plus of loft (5oz of 800+ Down) and weigh about 8.6oz. The question of condensation is also an unknown at this time.

You should request samples from Cuben or buy a yard and make a few things to test for yourself.

[Aaron Sorensen]

Hey Ryan,
I don’t think Glen reads enough threads on light gear. Funny thing is, about 4 years ago going under
9 pounds used to be considered ultralight. Now I hope even Glen agrees that it is sub 6.
The only thing I have read anywhere is that sub 5 is SUL.
Now sub 4 is a different story.
I personally think it should be called Uberlite. Mostly its just mentioned as an insane barrier to try to cross, but just lately it has been deemed on this site that getting sub 4 means going UBER.
I don’t know if sub 4 should be called Uberlite since it really means that just that piece of gear is Uber.
What I do think should be implemented toward going Uber is that that piece of gear should mean that it is lighter than any piece of gear that is commercially sold, (basically the only way to go sub 4 with some gear).
I also think going sub 3 should be called nanolite

[Aaron Sorensen]

Hey Ryan,
The Tarptent you have is very similar to mine. I do have a few extra use full feathers though.
1. I left the front square instead of going straight back to the pole. This makes a nice beak.

2. the back center is triangular shaped with an extra 15 inches. This makes for a great place to put excess gear or a dog.

3. Unless it’s raining, I place the back corners 6 inches of the ground and the center back a foot. This give the tarp a lot better bead room and I have had absolutely no condensation problems what so ever with this set up.

My current one, (soon to be the wife’s’) is cut a little short. It only weighs 10.8oz but I used vail for the netting which works, bit is way too flimsy.
I will soon be making a new one using some 0.8 spintex and 1/2oz nanoseeum netting that will weigh 8.8oz.

If you decide make another one, you really should try the adjustments. Even with out the netting it would still work better.

[Ryan Faulkner]

my set-up is aactually with a golite poncho tarp.

I think you are able to use this set-up with any flat tarp.

[Stephan Guyenet]

Check this out:

Packweight: 8 lbs 2 oz

Huge helium balloon: -9 lbs

Total weight: -14 oz

I’m in the negatives baby!

[Author]

Posts