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bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter
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Jul 8, 2013 at 8:30 am #2003688
Doug, may I add "generous to a fault"
Jul 8, 2013 at 8:30 am #2003689"He's also a great drinking companion – wonderful stories, great sense of humor, an all around rascal. I'd love to do a trip with him some time."
I'd rather go drinking with him.
Jul 8, 2013 at 10:46 am #2003737so
bear spray, undeterred
shotgun, fumbled
people on ground, bear leftJul 8, 2013 at 10:57 am #2003741Solution? Carry some camouflage fabric. When the bear charges throw it over you and hide. Should work… right?
Really it sounds like there is nothing that can adequately and reliably protect you from a grizzly that wants to kill you.
Jul 8, 2013 at 8:31 pm #2003955I am surprised no one here has mentioned using bear bells. Like the ones on pulling harnesses and leather door strips that let business know someone has opened the front door…just a big Christmas bell really.
I have used bells on my backpack for decades, (only in grizzly country) they are loud enough for the grizzlies to hear and it gives them time to leave the area before you even see/smell them. I used them on my pack horses and mules in Idaho and Montana and it kept the bears from causing pack train wrecks.Jul 8, 2013 at 10:15 pm #2003980I've seen a number of similar bear encounter discussions here on BPL. A lot of anecdotal stories and claims. I'm no expert, but here is what I have found is a good thorough and digestible (its a in video format) source to learn what the research says on bear encounters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y
I carry bear spray in known bear country (e.g., in the Bob Marshall where I was last weekend and will be again this weekend). But save the weight where bears are less common.
Jul 8, 2013 at 10:53 pm #2003985>"I have used bells on my backpack for decades, (only in grizzly country) "
Not that bringing a dog into bear brown bear country is a good idea, but. . . we put the bells on the dog. She runs about 3 times the miles that we walk and is a lot bouncier. The dog is THRILLED when we get the bells out, because it means she going some place fun.
Jul 9, 2013 at 6:07 pm #2004273' I'm no expert, but here is what I have found is a good thorough and digestible (its a in video format) source to learn what the research says on bear encounters. '
Michael,
Appreciate the link. After watching this talk by Dr. Tom Smith I am now inclined towards carrying bear spray when traveling in bear country. In fact I live in bear country and have had numerous encounters with black bear. I have always been taught the 'get big' approach and have mistakenly taught this to others. While not necessarily the worst possible course of action I now feel better equipped for the next encounter.Jul 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm #2004320Michael,
Outstanding video!
Jul 9, 2013 at 11:15 pm #2004363Ditching the bells and have ordered bear spray. Thanks for the video.
I had a bear almost walk right into me last month around a bend on a local trail. I was sitting down taking a break and the breeze was from him to me so he was completely unaware that I was there and I was sitting in the shade. It was high noon and the sun was very bright and hot, I am sure he was headed to a springbox on the trail nearby for a drink. I had just removed my left shoe and sock so I grabbed my sock and said "hi there"… Wish I had a camera, the look on that bears face was as close to "oh crap" as I have ever seen and he ran away uphill as fast as he could go luckily for me and him. I got my shoe on as fast as I could and headed down the trail away….laughing but thankful the encounter was harmless. We have a surprising amount of bears in our area and I had seen fresh tracks so I was aware they are here. But my encounter illustrated how very quickly a person can end up very close to a bear unintentionally.Jul 18, 2013 at 5:09 pm #2007464I think the account of the event PROVES that bear spray works and guns do not. The first hiker claimed that the bear was undeterred, but the bear stopped its attack on him AFTER he used the bear spray. The second hiker used a gun and the bear continued its attack on him.
I don't believe the bear was undeterred. It was most certainly deterred. It stopped its attack. That is what you want to happen.
The gun was ineffective in stopping the bear. It continued its attack.
Both of these encounters are consistent with other encounters.
I'm not anti-gun at all. I have shot lots and lots of different guns and still enjoy shooting. Not much of a hunter (only been once) though. Nothing against it, but I have enough hobbies.
BTW, a 12 gauge slug won't work either. Sure, the bear may die, but not before it attacks you first.
None of these are absolute and will happen all the time. The odds are just MUCH greater that it will happen the same way most of the time.
Jul 18, 2013 at 5:37 pm #2007468I wonder how much spray the bear got in its face? She might have been deterred by the spray or simply shifted to the other "threat." She may not have even got a solid doze of spray.
There have been cases of bears needing to be sprayed multiple times. I believe this was why Ryan Jordan recommended bigger cans of bear spray in an old article. He seemed to prefer UDAP which comes out faster then Counter Assault. The theory UDAP has is that you want to get as much spray in the bear's face with one squirt. Sounds reasonable to me.
Anyway I'll be hiking with the biggest can of UDAP I could find tomorrow in prime grizzly country. That is my primary defense option but I'll be making noise to. And since I'm solo and in a bivy with a sticky zipper I have a light but potent "friend" along for nights only. I can't fire bear spray through a bivy. Call me paranoid but I've seen about a dozen grizzlies in the last week and I want to be able to sleep at night.
Jul 18, 2013 at 5:45 pm #2007472Rangers are advising hikers to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter. They advise visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat. Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper. :^)
Jul 18, 2013 at 8:58 pm #2007513>"It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area."
The common response up here to "I saw bear scat." is "Was it warm?"
The common response to "Yes.", is "Was it steaming?!?"
If it hasn't dried out on top, I hold my hand close enough to feel any heat still emanating from it. Enquiring minds want to know.
Jul 18, 2013 at 9:05 pm #2007515How fresh does it need to be?
–B.G.–
Jul 19, 2013 at 6:34 pm #2007742I was catching up on the local newspaper from last month (AP June 18, 2013):
The Alaska Department of Fish and Game says a black bear that mauled a man at a campground north of Anchorage won't likely threaten other people.
Spokesman Ken Marsh told the Anchorage Daily News the bear was "pretty much goaded" into the attack Saturday near Eklutna Lake Campground because the man fed it meat from a church barbecue. He may be charged with illegally feeding wildlife, The Associated Press reported.
Alaska State Troopers spokeswoman Beth Ipsen says the man had been drinking and went for a bike ride, taking some of the food along. He came across the bear and threw it a piece of meat. When he offered the bear another piece, it attacked.
Park rangers later found the bloodied man washing himself off at the campground, Marsh said.
"He wasn't terribly coherent," he said. "He was unsure of where the attack actually happened."
The man was treated for punctures wounds and scratches at an Anchorage hospital. His name was not immediately released.
Authorities are still trying to sort out what happened, Ipsen said. There were no witnesses to the attack and the man struggled to convey what had happened when a trooper spoke with him at the hospital, she said.
A state biologist sent to the scene couldn't find the bear, Marsh said. There's no indication the animal will attack others.
Biologists advise people never to feed wild animals anything.
Jul 20, 2013 at 10:49 am #2007852Sorry to hear that. He's lucky he didnt end up the main course instead of just providing appitizers! Sounds like you are getting an influx of greenhorns up there that will be self educating themselves.
Jul 20, 2013 at 11:09 am #2007855"Sounds like you are getting an influx of greenhorns up there that will be self educating themselves"
Nah, just chemically dependent morons. They are in all 50 states.
Jul 20, 2013 at 1:14 pm #2007874That wasn't a bear. Just some dude hiding in the woods, sniffing bath salts.
Aug 1, 2013 at 4:32 pm #2011535I was just reading an article about bear spray in my printed edition: http://www.backpacker.com/february-march-2013the-truth-about-bears-the-skills/survival/17302
“The efficacy of spray vs. guns was the subject of my most recent paper [published last year in the The Journal of Wildlife Management]. Out of 133 encounters involving bear spray, only three people suffered injuries, which were all minor. But I found 269 incidences of gun defenses—with 17 dead people and hundreds of dead bears.
If you shoot a grizzly in the Lower 48, you’re moron of the year. Most states require you to hike out the carcass,…”
I can see why people are saying spray is the least risk.
About bear bells: I noted from the Teton park Pamphlet: “Bear bells are often not sufficient. Calling out and clapping your hands at regular intervals are better ways to make your presence known.” Plus if one of my hiking companions has bells clanging while walking, I’ll kindly ask him/her to snuff it :)
-Barry
-The mountains were made for Tevas -
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