Jun 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm #1304371
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
Its out. Looks pretty nice, It says its safe on fabrics, but we'll see what all it's safe on.
I wonder if it's safe on colors or if it'll turn things white like the early preproduction versions did. The videos mostly only show white clothes/shoes.
It'll still be nice for shoes and stuff.Jun 19, 2013 at 2:16 am #1997957
Can't wait to check this stuff out!
If Rust-O-Leum was willing to pick it up, I'm assuming it will live up to its potential.Jun 19, 2013 at 4:29 am #1997965
"Magic liquid" sounds a bit like hype. If it does work, wow! I have some sealer in a can. Triples the fabric weight, but you can build a window screen boat with it.Jun 19, 2013 at 8:54 am #1998022
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
Someone needs to apply this to a windshirt and go for a hike in heavy rain. I really want to know how well it works.Jun 19, 2013 at 10:14 am #1998051
@m-lLocale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
After a while you might as well just spray on clear coat. If it's truly waterproof it won't be breathable.Jun 19, 2013 at 10:20 am #1998054
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
Someone needs to apply this to 0.7 oz/yd2 fabric – nobul or M50 or whateverJun 19, 2013 at 10:25 am #1998056
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
I hope this stuff is as good as it's claimed.
If so, like carbon fiber poles, cuben fiber shelters and good WPBs (eg. eVent) we are getting less weight and more performance.
Who knows, it may supplant silicone in the treatment of nylon for tent material.
If we can apply this to our present gear with assurance that it is fairly permenant I see a huge market for it among all outdoor sports – and, of course, the military.
Maybe it has side benefits like being a bug repellant, curing arthritis and ED, increasing endorphine release, etc. :o)Jun 19, 2013 at 1:46 pm #1998113
@simauliusLocale: Bohemian Alps
How much information do we have on this wonder-molecule?
Does this stuff wear off? If it does wear off, does it breakdown or does it bond to something else?Jun 19, 2013 at 2:08 pm #1998122Jun 19, 2013 at 3:05 pm #1998142
I want to know how and what it will do, coating the fly on my tent. No more wet fly? Might be wonderful on my backpack, too.Jun 19, 2013 at 3:12 pm #1998145Jun 20, 2013 at 3:34 am #1998280
@rayestrellaLocale: Northern Minnesota
"While the current Rust-Oleum NeverWet leaves a frosty haze, Hobson said a transparent application will "absolutely" be among the future versions"
That explains the white-only demo products…Jun 20, 2013 at 8:39 am #1998349
I plan to use it around the house first, but I will treat a scrap of nylon (the stuff ray jardin uses for quilts) and see how it performs as a DWR.Jun 20, 2013 at 1:06 pm #1998440
It will be nice if it does work long term. Turn that $20 windshirt into a 5oz rain jacket.Jun 22, 2013 at 6:26 am #1998864
@namelesswayLocale: Mid Atlantic
Why am I reminded of the days when Scotchguard showed up on the market?
I can certainly see its utility, but I just can't seem to envision myself sleeping in a tent sprayed with this stuff, or sporting a jacket "field applied" with it. I just get the feeling like this is one of those "too good to be true" things, and it will eventually be recalled for something toxic-related. (Lest we forget "Bisphenol A"?)
Moreover, I'd be very curious what my companions in the greenbuilding industry think of it. "Low VOC" doesn't quite cut it, in my book.
… Time will tell….Jun 22, 2013 at 5:57 pm #1998976
@jasongLocale: iceberg lake
Let the testing begin!
heres the product sheet fwi
(heres an enhanced version..)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MJXtq9YAu6s/UcZIOlF7xzI/AAAAAAAAAqg/4VGgLMHX82M/w1106-h725-no/SCAN0004.JPGJun 23, 2013 at 8:51 am #1999071
@ckrusorLocale: Northwest US
Thanks, Jason. I'm looking forward to your observations of treated fabrics. In particular, I'm curious about fabrics that have been treated, then exposed to dirt, washed, etc.Jun 23, 2013 at 9:42 am #1999084
@fluffinreach-comLocale: no. california
yes. another + for Jason.
perhaps i am in one of "those" moods. but this thread seems quite the " but who will help me eat the bread ? ".
ie : much asking of questions and want of free information … and no effort.
Go Jason !
v.Jun 24, 2013 at 11:17 am #1999318
@jasongLocale: iceberg lake
nmJun 24, 2013 at 3:43 pm #1999388
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
From what I can tell, this product works by trapping a film of air at the surface, with the water sitting on top of the air. The nano-scale details are the secret. This works OK for low-pressure water hitting the surface.
It will not work against high pressure water, against abrasion, or on a soft fabric. When you combine a soft fabric with rubbing against wet scrub you are going to get very rapid wetting through.
No magic here folks.
CheersJun 24, 2013 at 3:44 pm #1999389
@ckrusorLocale: Northwest US
I'm inclined to agree with Roger. I don't think the water repellent properties of the coating will withstand soiling or abrasion, but as long as Jason has some, and is asking for testing suggestions…
I think it would be interesting to spray a windshirt or a piece of breathable nylon. I'd like to know if it improves the water resistance to such a degree that a windshirt could be used as a rain shell, or a treated sleeping bag/quilt could be used without a bivy under a small tarp. I'd also like to know how much the treatment reduces breathability. And it would be interesting to assess these parameters after soiling and one or more washings in a washing machine.
I think breathable, tighly woven nylon would be the substrate that most BPLers would use this product on. A few might want to use it on fleece, I guess.
It won't be useful to most of us if Jason's tests show that the coating rapidly becomes useless after abrasion or soiling, but it might still have a few narrow applications. For an ultramarathon, for example, it might be handy to have a windshirt that temporarily performs as a very breathable rain shell (until the coating is degraded).Jun 24, 2013 at 4:09 pm #1999394
but, but Roger is says fabric right on the label!
I wouldn't test it on anything I wasn't willing to throw away.Jun 24, 2013 at 4:14 pm #1999396
They list fabric as an acceptable application and demonstrate it. Whether it will be durable enough to be a good DWR is still in question. A few of us (I'm waiting for my order to arrive) are going to test just that. I am going to coat a scrap piece of nylon and see how it holds up. I will "stuff" into something to simulate packing a piece of gear away many times and then test how well it still repels water.
It may or may not hold up. Since I bought it for use on a hard surface I'm not loosing much if it doesn't work on the nylon, but there is certainly something to gain. :)Jun 24, 2013 at 4:42 pm #1999405
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Well, my take is that this must be different from the origonal. This is because it is a two part spray, and, it has some disoloration when applied to fabrics. The original version was a single spray, capable of being used inside cell phones and did not cause dramatic color changes.
At any rate, it would be nice for Larry to do the testing. For me, I will wait for the origonal. It was never clear about durability, and, I am sure rain drops would cause sufficient force to penetrate the coating, I an not sure about the two coats. They are saying that it will remove breathability…usually associated with thicker coatings on nylon.Jun 24, 2013 at 4:58 pm #1999406
I am in agreement with Roger. All it does is prevent water from sticking to the the fabric. Also note that when Roger said High pressure water that also has to include a good rain storm. A larg rain drop falling at terminal velocity could hit the fabric with enough force to generate the pressure needed to push the water right through the fabric.
A test that should be done is to take an untreated fabric and an identical treated fabric and measure the hydrostatic head of both samples. My guess is that never wet will not have a big impact on the hydrostatic head. If hydrostatic head remains unchanged Never wet treated fabric cannot replace a good rain jacket.
Some time ago I remember reading where people sent samples of fabric to a person and he measured the Hydrostatic head and posted the results. I don't know who it was.
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