Jun 8, 2013 at 5:40 pm #1303970
So what is the best way to handle the situation when a poster rubs a lot of people the wrong way?
I would rather not make names, but the latest disaster was not handled well in my opinion. I am not immune to some unkind posting at times so I understand it; there have got to be better ways to deal with it though.
No, I do not advocate more involvement by moderators, but rather our own "moderation".
Do we want to chase people off that cross the line here? Did they cross it all by themselves or did we help them? Should we rather set an example in problem solving?
Maybe giving someone a little time to reconsider and adjust, before pulling the trigger?
I really don't know, but this made me sad; someone could have come out of this having learned something other leaving with even more anger.Jun 8, 2013 at 5:44 pm #1994730
Reporting the post is the easiest way to send a signal to the powers that be that something is amiss. Like in the situation you are talking about, the whole thread has been deleted.
A calm, informative PM can't hurt either.Jun 8, 2013 at 7:56 pm #1994763
By handled, do you mean the replies in the thread or the thread deletion? Or the interactions in threads prior to the most recent, now deleted one?Jun 8, 2013 at 8:01 pm #1994768
I would always support trying to explain to someone when they go over the line, as Kat tried to do, and even resorting to explaining it to someone as if they never had been on a public forum on the internet before, as may be the case some times. It could happen. I feel it is worth it, even if the last 100 times you have tried in similar cases all fell into time-worn patterns leading to a final failure to communicate, and the inevitable ragequit.
Do I feel bad about the person in question – absolutely. Hopefully he will return later. He seem very passionate and interesting IMO. Normally I would also point the finger at the "offender" of the "offendee" but in this case the offendee's own posts somehow convinced me that the offender really did make an effort at apology that was exactly how these thing should get dealt with. Once it has reached the point where the very appropriate withdrawal of one the "parties" from the fray is enough to further raise the hackles of the other, there truly is nothing for it.
On the other hand, this does reinforce for me why most forums have a list of behavioral rules. It's OK to be aggrieved, and to try to get some resolution, but not to angrily demand public restitution all the while descending yourself into an even lower rung of abuse. Somewhere you have to snuff the feedback, or every misunderstanding or disagreement explodes into an atom bomb of flying fur with finally nothing real, or remotely appropriate, being argued about.
These things always seem to violate the first law of thermodynamics, and some times come out of nowhere, and out of almost nothing. Now if only we could build a perpetual motion machine that harnesses that excess energy….Jun 8, 2013 at 8:07 pm #1994772
This time the poster in question came hot out of the starting box with a post in a thread that could be considered drift. Very opinionated and it went downhill from there. Some pleads were made by the OP to stay on topic. Does not happen like this too often here fortunately. I too like the communities ability to self-police it's behavior. Look the profanity filter is off and potty mouths are not a problem.
Still a PM to ask for clarification on a post that is questionable. Or one to ask for better behavior. I got all kinds last year during my RJ tirade. This community cares about the playing field being fair and square, Look at how Gear Swap operates with people looking out for each other. It really is fantastic in that respect.
I knew too that chaffiness would spread into all the other forums once Chaff became an option. We have a place to stretch the boundaries of manners and good taste there. Post it there.Jun 8, 2013 at 11:16 pm #1994806
None of us are above criticism, least of all me. I think as a rule it's better to attack ideas than each other.
I think a little friendly teasing helps break up the monotony of "So is a bear canister cool in a ULA circuit on the JMT and should I pack an uzi for the bears" hum drum of this gear centric forum. On the flip side of the coin you can tell who is up for that kind of give and take by how they dish it out. I know if I start running my mouth and talking crap that I'd better be prepared for an internet smack down. I will also take my just deserts like a man when my mouth has written checks that my arse can't cash.
Daniel is passionate about his ideas but he never engaged in teasing any other members on the forum so I never tested the waters with him. He openly mentioned that he was bullied as a kid and I know those scars never really go away. I don't agree with how he tried to resolve the conflict he has with Gross Bob but I feel bad about how that went down and hope he will reconsider leaving the forum. I also think he needs to understand when a point has been made and it's time to move on.
Take care folks and see you on the high ground.Jun 9, 2013 at 5:20 am #1994830
@jenmitolLocale: In my dreams....
So should I take wool or synthetic underpants on the JMT?
Sorry…this was getting a little heavy and depressing with my coffee this morning.
I, for one, rather enjoy the back and forth teasing that goes on here. It (mostly) seems to be good natured fun and Ian you're right, I do get tired of the JMT questions. Except the ones I ask, of course. Those are awesome.Jun 9, 2013 at 6:59 am #1994852
We are not talking about enjoyable teasing here, not even remotely; not even just bad manners.Jun 9, 2013 at 7:07 am #1994856
No Kat is was not. Luckily in all my years on this forum I have only seen this kind of thing a handful of times.
Anyone remember flying squirrel dude? Same thing. Really nasty Pms and all.
Still a great crowd here. Except Doug, a category unto himself. ( See that was an example of good natured ribbing.)
Good Morning Everyone.
Time to put the kettle on.
@Jen, commando? One less decision.Jun 9, 2013 at 7:53 am #1994864
"We are not talking about enjoyable teasing here, not even remotely; not even just bad manners."
Sure but the thread which has now been removed didn't happen in a vacuum. There were a couple threads which devolved for a number of reasons. There were a number of people who became snarky in a way that if it was towards me, I would have either laughed at it or just shrugged it off. He was clearly taking exception to it and a feeding frenzy ensued. He felt (from what I could tell) that he was being personally attacked and responded by attacking Gross Bob in an independent thread.
I'm not trying to paint anyone as an innocent victim.
I prefer loin cloths made from Marmot pelts.
My new hiking apparel (please forgive the horrible video quality): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XP7gLUzj1wJun 9, 2013 at 7:56 am #1994866
That video was not enjoyable either. Yikes!Jun 9, 2013 at 7:59 am #1994869
"He was clearly taking exception to it and a feeding frenzy ensued"
and that is what I am talking about.Jun 9, 2013 at 8:01 am #1994870
"Do we want to chase people off that cross the line here?"
Probably not unless they are trolling in a traditional sense or spam.
"Did they cross it all by themselves or did we help them?"
In this case, I saw this as a group project gone wrong. That was more or less the point of my above responses albeit in a nebulous way.
"Should we rather set an example in problem solving?"
I think Dale W. set an example for everyone to follow. He tried steer a discussion back on track and respectfully asked for people to stop personally attacking each other.Jun 9, 2013 at 9:04 am #1994892
"He was clearly taking exception to it and a feeding frenzy ensued"
I do view the feeding frenzy mentality as the main root of this problem. Unfortunately the most viable solution is not to try to change those people's natures but to learn how not to feed the Trolls. I wish they could issue that basic tool at the door to any online discussion/entity, but some people don't seem well equipped.
You can diminish any feedback armed with the irony and sarcasm that tells them you can take it, and that you don't take them or yourself that seriously. Or you can just pretend they don't exist. Either way the frenzy goes away by itself. In this case the original victim became so upset that he ironically became a kind of troll himself and actually went way over the line. I still feel combination of compassion toward and irritation at people like that, in spite of the fact I have seen the same little drama acted out 1000 times.
Could the rest of us have done something? Probably "we" should have poked harder at both the original trolls and the person in question to tone it back once we realized a positive feedback loop was brewing. I missed the original incidents so I'm not too sure what "violations" actually lead to this.
But as was commented above, these forums are far, far above average in this respect. People on here usually do just that, and there seems to be relatively minimal name calling and troll insurgencies. I attribute that to the far smaller proportion (I would assume) of pubescent teenage boys – they usually don't have enough money to buy all that expensive gear.Jun 9, 2013 at 9:09 am #1994894
Daryl and DarylParticipant
@lyrad1Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Dang, I missed the whole thing. Got deleted before I read it.
Now I'm curious and would like to read the thread. Could we have a forum dedicated to deleted threads? It could have a warning like "Caution, you are playing with the big mean dogs with poor internet manners".Jun 9, 2013 at 9:21 am #1994900
Daryl, it wasn't all that special..
The departure of a poster is one way for it all to end, but without some kind of introspection, we will just repeat history.
There are easy targets that come along and what that brings out in us, is what is both interesting and concerning. Some can hold their own, others are bound for a big fall.
Leaving BPL with even more anger, now mixed with humiliation, cannot be good in the big scheme.Jun 9, 2013 at 9:31 am #1994906
Daryl and DarylParticipant
@lyrad1Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
You are wise beyond your years!
Hmmm, or perhaps as wise as someone younger than yourself?
Not knowing your age (and I'm not hinting that you should tell us) it is hard to know exactly how to phrase my compliment of your post.
Guess I'll have to scratch off "Hallmark card author" from my list of future careers.
How about this…..good post!Jun 9, 2013 at 9:40 am #1994914
Well thanks. I wish…..I think I just have wise moments..
I am 45 by the way, my 17 year old daughter graduating from High School on Friday.Jun 9, 2013 at 9:41 am #1994916
But as was commented above, these forums are far, far above average in this respect.
They are a little above average. Or maybe I have a high bar for average. I think the collective backpatting in this area discourages improvement.Jun 9, 2013 at 9:48 am #1994919
i can't say as I only play here. Seemed way too nice at HF. Never could have a negative comment or complaint. Way over moderated at Practical Backpacking. My first posts were edited there. F that. Most have too many dumb smartass youngins posting. Whiteblaze for instance. I'd rather play with the smartass intelligent adults here.Jun 9, 2013 at 10:06 am #1994922
>>I'd rather play with the smartass intelligent adults here.
That's my preference also, but it does drive some people away needlessly. Daniel was an odd duck, but sincere. I'm as guilty as anyone else for not speaking up about the provocation or his original derailment. I think there's room in the "honor code" to recognize that some folks don't have the temperament to be poked, but that they can still have a place here. Maybe the majority thinks that too kumbaya.Jun 9, 2013 at 10:14 am #1994923
Well the roughhouse turns to tears scenario happens. Online with the lack of nuance that comes with actual voices having a conversation more so . It's really hard to tell when and where somebody is coming from a lot of time. Spend a few minutes reading other posts by someone before determining how to deal with them. Me, I like it blunt and up front. I like to think i can take as well as I can give. Never any malice. Just calling a duck a duck sometimes.Jun 9, 2013 at 11:49 am #1994951
" It's really hard to tell when and where somebody is coming from a lot of time. "
That is certainly true on any forums, but I have noticed that here there is a very increased level of (I will not call it sophistication) mocking and winking that can often make it extra difficult here. That, combined with the normal crackpot post now and then make it yet harder. I still do a double take once a month or so where I have to ask myself "was that post serious, or did I just get punked?". On BPL the line is very thin sometimes.
I usually enjoy it, and have always chalked it up to the absurdity, on the face of it, of a lot of things we take very seriously here. As in "did I really just say I was willing to spend an extra $200 to save an oz or two?", or "am I actually looking at charts of the exponential decay of moistness in drying trail runners, and am I actually totally invested, and really care about which of the already fast-drying shoes is the best?" The answer is usually "yes", but the sane mind can only survive in the presence of such ultimate silliness by mocking itself (and others sometimes) to some degree.Jun 9, 2013 at 11:56 am #1994954
"but I have noticed that here there is a very increase level of (I will not call it sophistication) mocking and winking that can often make it extra difficult here."
Amazing how eloquent some of the put downs are delivered. Some crafty wordsmiths out there. Lot of cheap shots too. Some of those are hilarious though.
There are a lot of inside long running jokes amongst some long time posters that must seem really weird to a newcomer.
It is also so easy to hit post reply. Then later, well, you know….Jun 9, 2013 at 12:17 pm #1994966
"It is also so easy to hit post reply. Then later, well, you know…."
Oh yes…I know. LOL
I would never admit to this myself, of course! But there is a pretty hilarious episode of "The West Wing" nodding at the danger of hitting "post", even on a totally silly forum (in this case I believe it was called lemonlymon.com), and "putting it out there" without proper forethought. As usual, the "incident" spirals out of control, eventually causing congressmen to scream foul, until it virtually effects the president himself.
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