REI limiting returns to one year

[Loki Cuthbert]

If you buy a product and it takes more than a year to find out that the product isn't working out for you than you then that sounds like a personal problem. Be more aware with how you spend your money and take the losses you get for shopping frivolously. Choose who you buy from based on the products and services you want.

As far as people taking advantage of the return policy. It's a risk that you take by having such a liberal return policy. You gain X profit from word of mouth and having such an open return policy. You loose Y profit from having people return products after one year. If X is greater than Y you keep the return policy.

This also doesn't affect the manufactures very much. REI doesn't get reimbursed by the manufactures for the returns. That's why they sell all of the returns at their garage sales and recoup a portion on their loss.

I applaud them for trying to do something about the returns being an issue, but I don't see this as being the solution to their problems. The system will still be abused. They may loose customers. If they test run this for a year or two and compare the numbers against their old sales they may find out that they made a mistake. I don't really care either way because REI rarely has something that I want to buy that I wouldn't buy online at a significant discount.

[Anonymous]

This also doesn't affect the manufactures very much. REI doesn't get reimbursed by the manufactures for the returns. That's why they sell all of the returns at their garage sales and recoup a portion on their loss.

I would LOVE to see the programs REI is being sold at and what they request for defective allowances whether in the form of a DFI or destroy for credit. I can 100% guarantee their program requirements lean heavily on manufactures to help offset the massive(relatively speaking) amount of returns on used gear is for the industry.

[Russell Peavey]

Their return policy was their calling card. It is sad to see the way in which it went, fraud included.

[K C]

I can't wait to check out future parking lot sales as I will have less to look through and it will cut out all the beat up outdated gear.

[Dale Wambaugh]

It was amazing to see it on the front page!

I've seen 17 year old boots in the REI Gear Garage that were returned because they didn't fit.

It won't have a large effect on the "renters" as they use stuff for a season and return it. I think those types are rare, but they exist.

Jafco was a retailer of cameras and audio gear in the 1970's. There was a guy who would go in every year on the Friday before the big Seafair hydroplane race and buy a pair of the best binocular, use them over the weekend and return them Monday. We all end up paying for that behavior.

Nordstrom is famous for good service, but if you return too much stuff, you might get a letter from their security dept asking if there is a problem. Subtle ;)

So, with the REI change in policy, it should help keep prices down and dividends up for those who don't abuse it.

My first thought was that there would be less in the gear garage, but it is full of stuff with minor defects, fit issues, new items with a scratch or missing part, all of which are well inside some sort of one year policy.

[Connor C]

I'm sad to see it go, for I enjoyed the peace of mind that came with an unlimited return policy, despite not actually using it myself. In theory people can still "rent" gear from REI for a season, or a couple months. I guess we'll see how their new return policy shapes up on the ground. I've never shopped much from REI, but have bought a lot of stuff from backcountry, which often offers free 2-day shipping on purchases over $50. I've seen REI's return policy discussed on these forums before, but not so much backcountry.

[BlackHatGuy]

"In theory people can still "rent" gear from REI for a season, or a couple months."

People keep saying this throughout this thread, but I thought the following part of the guarantee would prevent much of that: REI’s guarantee doesn’t cover ordinary wear and tear or damage caused by improper use or accidents.

So if you trash something up, or even use it so that it's obvious it was used, the return policy doesn't apply. At least that's how I read the new policy.

[Billy Ray]

The cottage industry people could not supply the volume that REI needs… certain not the volume to stock the stores…

me thinks…

And if they could, it would likely ruin the 'custom' nature of the products… mass production… you know…

[Connor C]

Doug, that's true, so I guess returning used up boots or trail runners won't work, but if the "renter" were to take really good care of an item like a tent, sleeping bag, shell, etc, maybe they could return it no problem…I bet store managers will be making more judgement calls on an individual basis in terms of what constitutes a legit return and what constitutes abuse.

[BlackHatGuy]

"I bet store managers will be making more judgement calls on an individual basis in terms of what constitutes a legit return and what constitutes abuse."

Yeah, Connor, I'd bet that's right. Which generally means inconsistent enforcement throughout the 'enterprise.'

[Harald Hope]

This is great news for cottage industry people, now people aren't going to keep comparing their return policies to the money losing one of rei, with multi billion in sales.

I lost all sympathy when I read about the guy who did a long hike on rei gear then returned it all when he got back, that's just stealing as far as I'm concerned.

I can't find anything I need at rei beyond thermarest stuff, and maybe darn tough socks, anyway so it makes no difference to me. Not a hint of big dig ti trowels, not a single ul alcohol stove, no evernew pots, no tarptents, no mld tents, no zpacks stuff, no reasonably priced shoes, no feathered friends, no western mountaineering, no enlightenment equipment quilts, not a single lawson product, no evarest pads, no polycryo ground sheets, not a trace of any backpack I'd actually buy or want. They do have the rubber tips for bd trekking poles, that's true. Hats off to the cottage guys, they have almost covered the bases, nice work. Rei used to meet all my needs a long time ago, now it meets almost none of them, times change. But then again, Northface used to be a cottage industry, as was Sierra Designs, and I believe Lowe Alpine, and those products were there. Now it's all the corporate trash that's great for new backpackers, perfect in fact, that's a good market too for rei.

[Stephen M]

Anytime I have gone in to REI lately my wife has dropped cash on lifestyle gear and I ended up getting a gas cartiage or some tent pegs.

[Jerry Adams]

Last summer my brother's pack did not fit right, it kept slipping, torso length wasn't right,…

He took it to REI and they spent 20 minutes fixing it up for him and didn't charge him

It's probably a 40 year old pack, external frame, probably not bought at REI

There are many good things about REI

[oliver hulland]

I recently returned a pair of REI/Leiki Ultralight carbon poles that failed to lock. They were probably four years old, but had only seen a few weeks of use at most. The poles wouldn't lock anymore because a piece of plastic internally had sheared, and I was going on a week-long hike the next day or I would have tried repairing them myself. I really wanted them repaired, but Leiki told me to go to REI. And when REI wouldn't repair them, they opted to give me original purchase value (which I was fine with, but would have preferred the poles). I ended up using the refund to buy a similar pair of poles, but this time were only made by REI.

I imagine to some folks four year old poles would probably fall outside the realm of the intent of the return policy, but given that I only used them sparingly I didn't feel that I was "abusing" the system. I will admit that when I was in college, and much more spendthrift, I did end up returning stuff I probably shouldn't have (two year old pants with busted zippers), but in being so generous they made me a customer for life.

I'm hoping that this new return policy has some sort of clause wherein they'll still try and help people get stuff repaired after 365 days are up.

Also, does anybody know whether REI branded gear carries a different warranty/return policy than other things carried in store?

[Jacob Linton]

I just got back from the Garage Sale and I found the majority of the excuses on the return tags to be pretty ridiculous.
I like REI.

[James holden]

This is great news for cottage industry people, now people aren't going to keep comparing their return policies to the money losing one of rei, with multi billion in sales.

nonsense … backcountry, MEC, EB, OR, Lands End, LL bean, etc …

great to see the day when BPLers want LESS service so that cottage makers can "compete"

as to REI … theres plenty of other places to buy from … like backcountry … which has better sales …

;)

[Harald Hope]

eric, usually you make decent sense, so I assume you didn't think this through. You can't compete with a huge corporation that can eat the amount of returns that rei can, particularly when a certain sense of entitlement to return no matter what has been created by that policy. The article noted that REI made I think 27 million profit on 1.7 or so billion in sales. Ie, this is not a high margin business. Cottage works because there is no middle man, in most cases. I am not talking about the few 'cottage' guys that outsource their production since that's not 'cottage'. I can't count how many times I've seen people compare the return policy of rei to some other company and cite it as the reason they did not buy from the other company.

What is good is that now people will gradually start to lose the idea that you can rent for free, buy, never use, then return, etc, that's a mindset that I'm happy to finally see get corrected by a policy change. It's obvious this mindset has grown too prevalent or REI would not have changed this long standing policy. You also can't offer lifetime warranties on light or ultralight gear, it's not the same as a 6.5 pound lowe alpine backpack that is made out of 1000d or 500d cordura, or a 70d tent, so as gear gets lighter, it's also easy to understand why you can't offer lifetime return policies on it.

Cottage guys compete because their products are more interesting, better made, or so ultralight that you simply cannot compete with them on a mass market level, not because they can churn out the same outsourced garbage as every other big corporation that used to be a good small company before they were absorbed by some no name outdoor gear holding company.

It's taken me a while to get what Ray Jardine was talking about when he wrote about freeing yourself from these mega outdoor corporations as part of the point of going light, but after reading these forums for a while it finally started to register what he was trying to say.

I'm always happy to give real cottage guys my money, and am glad they are here, I like them precisely because they are real people who run small businesses in an honest way, with reasonable margins, but little room for extras in that model, and I'm particularly glad I can get almost everything I need from them. I'm also glad to see REI drop their endless return policy, I have some very old gear I've debated returning, but of course did not do it because it has served me well over the years so pretending there was some reason to return it makes no sense. Good for REI. You can still buy to try with this policy I believe as long as you can lie convincingly enough when returning, but they've closed that loophole too.

I'm hard pressed to think of any other business were people expect to be able to rent for free, try as long as they want to use the thing then return it, where does this sense of entitlement and corresponding lack of responsibility come from? Is it a yuppie thing? I don't get it. You can't do that with a car, a toaster, a house, clothing, beds, toys, stereos, high tech stuff, or any other consumer gadgets I can think of. This particularly the case with outdoor gear geeks like we are here, research, etc, should have already done most of the job.

I like REI by the way, I went in to buy some trekking poles on sale there, and the guy working told me to not buy the rei branded ones because they had undesirable vibration damping, which was cool. They aren't very good when it comes to light/ul thinking in general, but that's ok, that's not their market anyway. I got the trekking poles he recommended I get online for a lot less on sale.

A year return policy is really good on this type of gear, very fair, and the extension of that year for true failures of gear like seam rips etc is also excellent, so all I see is REI targeting some freeloaders and spoiled kids as neatly as they could while still offering very good support to people who don't do that and don't expect it as a right. I definitely miss the pre-'lifestyle corporate gear' rei though, the one with wood boxes of real gear sold really cheap but of good quality. Happily however, we can type in whatever we want and express whatever outrage we want, rei has already set its new policy, which is basically just slapping the hands of kids as far as I'm concerned while respecting the needs of adults.

Actual gear failures are still covered for more than a year I believe, like a trekking pole inner that cracks or whatever, or a tent seam failure, so in terms of awesome protection, you still get it from REI, better than anyone else offers as far as I know. Again, good for REI.

[James holden]

it makes perfect sense

theres no reason to downgrade the service or expect it to be downgraded because of "cottage" or other small manufacturers

this is a free society, and a capitalistic market

if companies want to offer "infinite guarantees" thats their choice, and if they dont thats their choice … people vote with their feet and wallets

companies such as EB, OR, LL BEan, Lands end, backcountry and MEC still over such guarantees … and are proud of the fact … they know very well that there are people who push the limits of the system and figure it as the cost of doing business

if you dont want to shop at somewhere with such guarantees its your choice … but its very BPL to say that they should get rid of them because of cottage manufacturers

small manufacturers are not a "charity" … they compete on their own merits

;)

[Walter S Phillips]

Hey fitztravels,

I work for Backcountry.com and wanted to reach out and apologize for any bad experiences that you had with us. It's not cool if one of our people has an off-putting attitude as all we want to do is stoke people out on what gets us stoked (being outdoors and having fun) and give people the best experience possible. I want to help as best I can so shoot me a PM and let me know the situation.

[Josh Brock]

I find lots of stuff I like at REI… No cottage guys sell GPS's, patagonia gear for 25%off, Backpacking cloths, regular cloths, shoes, all my arctyrex (like 2 grand worth of stuff so far). and there is definately NOTHING wrong with their back pack selection.

Just because it comes from a cottage gear maker does not mean its better… for instance I have never recieved a tent from REI with loose stitching and unfinished end threads but I know some cottage gear makers that have(boom that can just popped back open)

I like cottage gear guys too, but they definately do not have ALL the bases covered atleast not all the ones REI does.

All in all I think having to change policy sucks but I really think something needed to change…

[MFR]

Anyone notice that Backcountry.com has changed theirs too? I tried to search in the forums, but nothing came up.

Here's the new policy from their website:

Not stoked on your gear? Looking to return it or make an exchange? No problem. If your new and unused gear just doesn’t fit your needs, we will issue you a full refund. If your gear fails, at anytime, we will also issue you a full credit. No questions asked.

• You can return your new purchase at anytime after purchase

o Products must be in the condition you received them in and the original box and/or packaging

• We do accept used gear – as long as it is received within 90 days of purchase date – and we will issue a credit for full purchase price

[Author]

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