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How stupid is it to go into the wilderness without a shelter or survival skills?
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Home › Forums › General Forums › General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion › How stupid is it to go into the wilderness without a shelter or survival skills?
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May 30, 2013 at 5:41 pm #1991525May 30, 2013 at 6:02 pm #1991542
I can see a resemblance to Andrew Skurka :-)
May 30, 2013 at 6:27 pm #1991554Must be the visor.
May 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm #1991557That it Ken:-) but it could also be Rog W as he wears one also :-)
May 30, 2013 at 6:49 pm #1991563May 30, 2013 at 7:52 pm #1991584deleted
May 30, 2013 at 7:54 pm #1991586Wait a minute, Cameron wears a visor. And has red hair!
May 31, 2013 at 4:30 am #1991673I have often being envious of Rog's Visor on trips so I must get one myself.
May 31, 2013 at 9:47 am #1991760…
May 31, 2013 at 10:17 am #1991778Ask Matt Black.
;)
He has skills, but a little over a year ago Ken, Jay, Matt and I went into the Lost Coast on a really windy, rainy day. That night while Ken and I stayed warm and dry in our shelters Matt got soaked under a tiny tarp and eventually hoofed it back to the car.
May 31, 2013 at 11:25 am #1991811deleted
Jun 4, 2013 at 9:01 pm #1993427rOg:
Enjoying the comments.
As for the original post. Some people walked ten miles into the woods without a "shelter". And didn't end up needing a shelter. Where is the "stupidity"? Sounds like a successful mission.
Jun 8, 2013 at 6:55 am #1994566It's SUL technique to leave behind shelter, etc. Ryan does it in his SUL series. Nothing to get excited about.
Jun 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm #1994629If the characters in the OP had waterproof bivvies, there would have been no need for this thread, but it has been thought provoking.
The question about wilderness travel without skills is a good one to raise. Some equipment and skills work together, with navigation being first in my mind. A compass and map are far more useful in trained hands. Emergency shelter building and first aid would top my list with navigation.
But then there is a wide range of do's and dont's and general hiking knowledge than cover things from life threatening to basic comfort: lightning and avalanche avoidance, campsite selection, hydration and water purification, wildfires, fire making, bears and other animal issues, ground insulation, weather, nutrition and cooking, clothing systems and layering, foot care, trail courtesies, and so on.
I think it is an interesting question to ask: at what skill level is it safe and prudent for someone to hike solo, or take other inexperienced people into the backcountry? Hiking is a little like making babies: it is fun, you are born knowing how to physically do it (walk) and you don't need a license, but the outcome can be much more serious and complicated than your original intentions. And like parenting, hiking has some important and far-reachng responsibilities that effect others.
So anyone can go to WalMart or REI, buy what they think they need (or not) and walk into the woods. This has been known to make Darwin look up from his book and raise an eyebrow, or sadly shake his head.
My personal training and experience came from my father, the Boy Scouts, carpentry and noat building, Red Cross First Aid classes, crisis intervention training, disaster preparedness training, and a few shelves full of books, magazines, and the web.
So what does the basic guy off the street need to do to be safe and comfortable outdoors?
Jun 8, 2013 at 12:55 pm #1994641"So what does the basic guy off the street need to do to be safe and comfortable outdoors?"
It's a fine discussion point, but I think you're trying too hard to quantify something that cannot be measured.
All of the gear, training, books, first aid, etc. don't mean anything in the hands of someone with poor judgement.
On the flip side, I'd be more inclined to do an adventure with someone potentially less formally trained yet possessing a high level of fitness, smarts, and a level head. You can't pack those things or learn them in a book.
I used to rock climb a lot. One of my regular partners was cautious, skilled, not prone to bad judgement, well equipped, etc. He constantly practiced his technique, studied first aid and rescue, all of it.
And then there was a day that I got into a stressful situation with him and watched him panic and freeze. He was so rattled he was shaking and couldn't tie a knot properly. I had to completely take over. All the training and gear went out the window due to his disposition, something not so easy to learn or be prepared for. From that point on, I stopped doing riskier climbs with him.So what does it take to be safe? Who knows.
But I have to say, I've encountered plenty of seemingly well prepared hikers, climbers, and outdoorspeople that I wouldn't trust to save anyone, including themselves, if things went seriously bad.Jun 8, 2013 at 5:41 pm #1994727I think basic skills can be listed or quantified easily enough. Personality certainly makes a difference, which is part of having the drive to seek out new skills. The only formal training I would advise is first aid; the rest is usually an amalgam of hands-on, books and one-on-one sharing of information. Venues like the forums here are priceless.
So if you're stuck on a tricky climb, you DO want a level head with you, but that partner still needs to know how to tie the knot.
Jun 9, 2013 at 8:55 am #1994888craig hit the nail on the head
all the book skills in the world and "practice" isnt going to help you if you cant keep a level head and physically do the climb
theres tons of climbers out there who know a million ways in theory to self rescue … but in a real life situation they freeze up … or they have to get rescued because they cant physically do the climb in the first place …
this is also situation dependent as even good climbers can lose their lead head should the wrong situation or environment be extreme enough … ive had good climbers with generally level heads forget how to tie knots when they are 6 pitches up but its getting dark, yr cold tired hungry and the crack is wet
the only solution is to go out and USE the skills in real life situations as much as you can over and over again … not just read books or practice on your porch (though thats better than nothing) … ill repeat it over and over again but how many here can collect wood and build a fire in a hard rain in a real forest, not just under ideal circumstances, over and over again without fail … very few i bet
conversely theres some young dumb and full of (you know what) boys who are physically fit with the courage of youth … who dont even know the basic skills .. all the physical fitness in the world wont help you if something bad happens and you cant use it
i suspect the same applies to any other risky sport
heres a simple question … just because a highly skilled and fit person does something does it mean EVERYONE can or should as well …. in rock climbing there are plenty of professional climbers that SOLO hard climbs …. if you or i tried that we would be bear food ….
just because someone is pushing the edge, doesnt mean you or i can or should … until you get the years and decades (and i dont mean going out every now and then) of experience and fitness
;)
Jun 10, 2013 at 6:42 pm #1995418I rest my case!
http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/jun/10/deputies-search-naked-woman-missing-skamania
Deputies search for naked Vancouver teen missing in Skamania
Woman, 19, reportedly set off on a spiritual questBy Patty Hastings
Columbian staff writerDeputies are searching for a naked Vancouver woman, 19, who left her campground in west Skamania County on Sunday afternoon.
Maureen Kelly reportedly left the Canyon Creek Campground in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest just after 5 p.m. Sunday on a “spiritual quest,” wearing only a fanny pack that contained a compass and a knife. The woman was supposed to return that night, but didn’t. A friend reported her missing around midnight.
Canyon Creek is steep and mountainous with heavy timber and brush, said Dave Cox, Skamania County Undersheriff. Deputies aren't sure whether Kelly is on a road or trail in the area, or moving cross country.
“We had a fairly mild evening last night, with temperatures in the lower 50s,” Cox said. “We have several search and rescue personnel currently deployed and will continue operations till nightfall."
The sheriff’s office set up a local command post and requested additional aide through the Washington and Oregon departments of emergency management.
Jun 10, 2013 at 7:47 pm #1995451That story needs more pictures Dale.
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