JMT North – South Records

[Al Shaver]

My two cents:
Jorge and Kenneth,
Good points all around re. direction of travel and starting points except for the "Happy Isles" sign. I know of no such sign. I have had this conversation with Aaron Sorenson and Michael Popov. There is a mileage sign a few 100 feet into the trail from the Happy Isles start in YNP which lists distance to local points and Mt Whitney. Michael used this as his finish point on one of his beer fueled wicked fast efforts.
>
A sign listing distances is not a trailhead. There are many such signs along the trail. To me it is clear where the north end of the JMT is. There is a car width dirt road that hits the Merced River and ends at the automated water level monitoring station. At this point the road narrows abruptly to a hiking trail. There is a bear warning sign at this point and this is where the trail begins – not a mileage sign placed arbitrarily along the route a few 100 feet beyond the trail's starting point.
>
Get a good sleep in and have a fast trip OR give yourself no more than 3-5 hours/night, go for the record and be pre pared for some serious sleep deprivation induced psychosis.
Good luck to all.

[Art …]

the stone bridge about 100 yds further than where Al is describing makes the most sense.
1. it is an impossible to miss or argue about landmark.
2. it marks the beginning of the pavement … in keeping with the car to car philosophy.

[Al Shaver]

Art,
Good luck driving your car to the JMT southern terminus at the 14'497' summit of Mt Whitney!
>
As Jorge and Kenneth posit, a trail doesn't need to start at a parking lot. To drive to the JMT southern end would require driving your car 12 miles up a highly protected single track hiking trail. To drive to the bridge that you refer to in YNP to the north for most of us would necessitate a moving violation from park Law Enforcement Officers as that road is only open to park busses and handicapped vehicles. And even for those vehicles, there is no place to leave a car anywhere near there. The closest appropriate parking lot is the wilderness parking lot at the base of Glacier Point Apron 3/4 mile to the west.
>
The JMT south end is defined as the summit of Mt Whitney (12 miles from the parking lot) by those who created it. I see the north end as being where the single track hiking trail ends (where it drops to the shore of the Merced River) and a wide dirt park vehicle accessible road begins. If you need a place to park your car, travel another mile west to the Wilderness Parking Lot.

[Bob Gross]

"The JMT south end is defined as the summit of Mt Whitney (12 miles from the parking lot)"

Actually, it is 10.7 miles from the parking lot, but who is counting?

–B.G.–

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

Hey guys! Thanks for pitching in!!

Al, thanks so much for your comments. Knowing a bit about your JMT background, I welcome such comments with respect. Kenneth will be out there soon. I am still trying to teach myself the discipline of a UL fastpacker and if I may say so, showing progress.

I will be out on the trail on Aug 1st on a 42 mile day hike from Onion Valley to Lone Pine Lake. I need to test my training so far as well as my gear. My goal will be a 6-8 day JMT in Aug 2011 (this is the most realistic time frame I can give myself for now / I don't enjoy hiking at night). I hope the passes are clear by Aug1; I was out there on July 4th and there was lots of snow. The Tyndall Creek was reported as "unpassable" as of July 12! What? I hope for an improvement in a couple of weeks!!

Anyway, good to hear from you and the others; here is a toast to the "conquering of the useless", right Al?

[Al Shaver]

Jorge,
To paraphrase a greater writer than me:
Mountain running is useless like poetry and dangerous like lovemaking.

[Aaron Sorensen]

That happy isles sign is only 100 yards or so from the road.
If it were right off the side of the road, we would count that extra 100 yards.

If you were to break the record by the 25 seconds or so it would take to get from the sign to the road, go for it…

Honestly Brett ruined it for us counting his Unsuported Record up to Whitney means everybody else going for the U/S Record now needs to do the climb up to Whitney under the clock.

At one point last year, if Michael Popov were to have both records, he was going to make a claim to change the JMT Record Attempts to be the JMT, and not to include the distance from the Portal to the top of Whitney.

If someone were to go N-S I would Highly recommend doing just the JMT and enjoy the view for a few hours with a beer.
My only stipulation would be that if you know you had time and could break the overall record down to the portal, to do so.
Good luck on that after I get through with it.

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

Good one Al!

Aaron: I thought Brett went up to the shelter and waited there 'till 6am or something like that… he clocked himself going up there but i don't think he counted it. He has video of himself hanging out at the shelter with another trail blazer; not sure though.

You guys are gonna make this JMT record runs impossible for the rest of us mortals. That Spanish kid, Kilian Jornet, the one who broke the TRT last year, is looking to come down with his huge Solomon crew. Did you see his video of the TRT run? His crew literally tucked him in his friggen sleeping bag when he wanted to go nite-nite for an hour or so — literally!! Plus, he had a pacer the whole way and no back pack to speak of… man… that was one supported run…. He wants to come down to the JMT and do the same trick… make it as hard as possible for him… LOL!

[Aaron Sorensen]

Jorge
That was Ian that did the Unsupported Attempt and slept on Whitney until 6:00.
Both Ian and I are starting during August's full moon for the overall record this year.
i will be going Supported and Ian Unsupported, however Ian has to start at the portal now because of the way the record was made by Brett, (breaking the supported record going unsupported).

The only reason Kilian did not do the JMT last year was because permit issues did not allow Salomon to get the video equipment they wanted up there so they settled for the TRT.

Kilian could get this record down below 3 days.
He just crossed the pyrenees in 740 kilometers in 7 days with 40,000 meters of elevation gain.
He is a master at elevation and technical terrain. He may not be able to run a 15 hour 100 miler at western states, but he destroys everyone in the Monte Blanc championships which has almost double the elevation as WS and is 106 miles.
I would love to see Geoff Roes go there and run head to head with Kilian on his turf.
Sorry I am a fan of what Kilian competes in. No baby stuff. He just gets babied.

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

Good info Aaron. I will sure be monitoring.

Since I'm new to the trail sports, I have been trying to define myself into whatever category fits me best. I like to trailrun the occasional 10k or 50k, I like to heavy backpack with friends and family, and, I like to take off with a light backpack once in a while by myself and cover long distances. The difference now-days is that I like to run once in a while with the pack on; hence, this takes me to my interrogative.

Is there an inherent difference between a fastpacker and a speedhiker? I do find several and thus, I consider myself a fastpacker in essence. I consider you trail blazers speedhikers; although, when I saw Brett on the trail in 2009, he looked just like any other backpacker out there. I had no clue what the guy was up to until I saw his pics and articles! I'd like to stir the pot in a BPL discussion board to see if I draw some attention to the topic. I hope you jump in and plug in your opinions too.

Happy Trails!
jd

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

"Fastpacking and Speedhiking; are these different names for the same sport?"

Some good items posted on the forum already. Look up the forum by the same title and pitch in your opinions, experiences, "two-cents", what have you. I think it will help define our sport more and awaken more interest in folks out there.

jd

[Kenneth L Muller]

Jorge, thanks for the on-trail report. Thankfully, I still have a month of melting from when you hiked it to the start of my hike on August 5th. As for time, I will be racing my inner self more than any record. I would like to get in the neighborhood of 5 days. Time will tell. My right knee is getting better…

Aaron, thanks for the input. I doubt if I will knock out any records, certainly not Michael's or Brett's time, but I hope to do well.

I am running a blog on this hike at:
http://walk4sock.blogspot.com
Part of my objective is to raise some money for a camp for disabled kids called Camp SOCK, as in Southern Oregon Camp Kiwanis. I am a member of the Kiwanis group that puts the camp on each year. Check it out at:
http://www.campsock.org

Again everyone, thanks for the input. Happy Trails!

Ken "Moose" Muller

[Kenneth L Muller]

Getting ready to skip town and head south to Yosemite. Train leaves tonight at 10pm. Amtrak from home here in Klamath Falls, OR to Sacramento, bus to Stockton, train to Merced, then bus to Yosemite. Should arrive around 1:30pm tomorrow… get my permit and start the hike at midnight plus one minute.

Follow the Walk 4 SOCK… the web address…

http://share.findmespot.com/shared/gogl.jsp?glId=0933O8mCvhXC6kaJgrSOb4IloX2ZqE1Dg

The backpack is at 30 pounds with the food for 7 days, no water. I would like to shave it to 25, but don't know if I can get to that goal or not. Right now, the weight for stuff stands at:

11.1 oz. — Backpack (thin sil-nylon GVP 4)
6 lb., 2.4 oz. — Sleep gear / Shelter total
— Tyvek ground sheet (6.7 oz.)
— REI tarp tent shelter (1 lb., 15.5 oz.)
— Big Agnes Horse Thief down bag (35 deg F) (1 lb., 15.6 oz.)
— Thermarest pad (15.4 oz.)
— Foam/Air pillow (13.2 oz.)
3 lb., 9.4 oz. — Extra Clothing / Rain Gear
11.6 oz. — Eating / Hydration Equipment
12.9 oz. — Lights, Batteries, etc.
14.7 oz. — Survival Gear / First Aid
9.2 oz. — Meds and Footcare
12.8 oz. — Toiletries and misc.
4.9 oz. — SPOT tracking device
15lb., 12.6 oz. — Food + Bear Vault

I did not skimp on sleep gear and protection this time… after the hypothermia in 2008, I don't plan to repeat that historical mistake.

Concession in weight that I have made…

–The pillow is comfort, but allows proper sleep, for me anyways, so I take it.

–The hiking boots, Montrail Sabino Trail Mid GTX's, weigh only 9 ounces total more than my pair of trail running shoes, a small price in weight to pay for keeping the soles of my feet from feeling every sharp rock underfoot and becoming tenderized to the point of agony (JMT 2006 trip)

–Hiking poles are aluminum, not carbon fiber. Don't have $150 to spend trying to save 10 oz.

–Camelback – easier to fill than a Platypus… that is the only reason.

–5-hour energy – the B-complex vitamins in this concentrated drink work well for sustaining energy, so I use it.

–Lights and batteries – SPOT tracker for fun and safety, camera for photos and videos, and headlamp and flashlight for night hiking all come at a price. 12.9 ounces in this case.

–ALL my food runs at greater than 100 calories per ounce, except for the pouches of tuna and the freeze-dried dinners. Taste counts for something, and I gotta have some taste in my diet.

–I am going without a cookstove. Foods will soak for about an hour to rehydrate (in the plastic jar with the wide-mouth green lid) while I am still hiking on down the trail. Lukewarm tasty but not piping hot. Titanium cup + stormproof matches and firestarter if I need an emergency warm-up.

I know I can shave a few ounces here and there… I'll probably be flinging stuff out as I roll into Yosemite.

Never stop exploring!
}
}:[: ) Moose
}

Donations may be mailed to:
Camp SOCK, Walk 4 SOCK 2010
PO Box 735
Keno, OR 97627-0735

Electronic Donation submissions may be made through Click and Pledge at:
https://co.clickandpledge.com/sp/d2/default.aspx?wid=22240
this is a secure site. There is a $0.40 transaction fee charged to the cardholder.

Thanks for your support!! 100% of donations go directly to Camp SOCK.

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

Greetings All:
Ken, have a great hike and we hope to read from you soon. The trail is a go from Charlotte all the way to Portal; some stubborn small snow fields on the north side of Forester's upper half will make you scramble a little; all doable.

Good Luck!!

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

Well,
I went on my Onion Valley-Portal hike on Aug1 and sure learned a lot. Took off from Onion Valley at about 330am and 10 minutes into the hike I had an encounter of the mama bear kind. The shape and color of their eyes when the headlamp beam hits them head-on is one of a kind. I made noise, screamed, everything I could do to get the pair to move off the trail but, nope. I was afraid mama bear was holding her ground for a possible second cub in the area so, I turned around and went back to the trailhead. An hour later, I went back up making more noise than ever. The bears had moved but I could see them on my right side at about 100 feet away. I kept on going as I sang out loud. That was that.

The climb up to Kearsarge Pass was easy. The subsequent run down to Lower Vidette (via Bullfrog Lake) was fine. On-and-off to the Upper Vidette and then face to face with the great Divide and Mr. Forester. I was feeling good up the hill until I hit about 12500 feet. If anyone out there felt a little short of breath on Sunday morning at about 10am, it was because I was sucking-up all the oxigen from Forester. I never got my butt kicked like that before. Maybe it was because I over spent myself trying to catch up with time or, because I was just not used to the altitude. Anyway, by the time I made it down to Tyndall Creek, my legs were no longer good for running.

I made it to Crabtree at about 730pm and decided not to continue because I do not enjoy hiking at night — let alone down Whitney. Per the map, I completed almost 30 miles in 15 hours; a stinking average of 2mph. The next day, I got up pain-free and happy as a jay bird. Ready to summit. Once I began my ascend, I discovered my uphill legs were not there. So, although I was feeling good on level ground and downhill trails, the uphill was not happening. I figured I had a case of the "burnt-out" and decided not to summit (I know… WTF!!!).

I doubled time down the hill toward the portal with my 20 pound ULA pack (water and food included). On my way, I met one of the BPL bloggers named "BJ" or "BG". He put two-and-two together and figured out who I was. That was so cool! I am glad he caught me working down the hill and not slacking off!! Good times B!!!!!

Anyway, finished a 43.7 run in about 21 trail hours. My knees are fine, no blisters or injuries to speak of; other than a heavy case of the chaffing where the sun never shines. Why were my uphill legs gone after Forester remains for me to find out. All my training takes place in much lower elevations and that had something to do with it, I'm sure (although I did have some runs in the area on Jul4-5).

I also wonder if pre-run nutrition and/or dehydration played a part; not to mention I am a type two diabetic and what happened was just me "bunking" or going low on sugar. Who knows… I did not check or was concerned about that…I don't like excuses… I was not physically ready for the Onion Valley-to-Portal challenge and that was that. I found out first hand, and accept, that I am not ready for a 5-7 day JMT fastpack run either…. not yet anyway.

Nevertheless, although I did not meet my goal, I felt very accomplished with my run. All in all, the last 10 months have been a good transformation period; from a 40 pound pack and three weeks on the JMT — to a 14.5 base weight (20 total) and a 21 hour JMT ride. I totally enjoyed my mini adventure. Riding the JMT never gets old anyway.

Good times,
jd

[Brett Maune]

Wow, I wish I knew this thread existed earlier…Aaron, I only started from the Portal because I was trying to beat both records without there being any debate. In my opinion the unsupported record should coincide with the JMT and thus start from Whitney. The number is 82 and not 86! Having something called the "Supported JMT Record" be defined to start at the Portal is also fine. I had no intention of redefining the unsupported record route!

Regarding the northern terminus…I never actually really thought about this. I guess I saw Michael's picture at the sign and assumed that was it. Hehehe…oops.

Also, I did not take the northern route across the highway in Tuolumne. At the time I thought the southern route was the original JMT route, but I misinterpreted a post regarding the issue. It sounds like the length/time difference for the two routes is pretty small.

I stayed on the JMT near the end and did not take the Mist Trail. I know there's a considerable length difference between these two routes but I don't know what sort of time difference that creates.

[Bob Gross]

"On my way, I met one of the BPL bloggers named "BJ" or "BG". He put two-and-two together and figured out who I was."

I have no idea who that could be. :-)

That was mid-day on August 2. I was only walking up the Whitney Trail for a mile or two with a friend to stretch my legs, since I was going up and down Whitney on August 3.

I'm glad we all made it out uninjured.

–B.G.–

[Kenneth L Muller]

First off… my hat is off to all who do complete the JMT unsupported and unresupplied. It was not to be for me.

Pushed out early from Happy Isles (permit for Aug 5th, left at 12am EDT on August 5th… too bad it was only 9pm PDT on August 4th in Yosemite). Hiked for 24 hours and only got down the trail 38 miles. Tuolumne Meadows in 12 hours, Donahue Pass by 23 hours (2 hour break in Lyell Canyon to cool off), and about another 2 miles into the Ansel Adams Wilderness before the 24 hour mark. Too slow for any record, but then I was only racing myself.

Day 2 I broke the unresupplied rule by grabbing a Gatorade,a Haagen Dazs bar, and some jerky at the Reds Meadow Store. "Ho-to-hey" had some extra ham and cheese to offer, so I scarfed on that, too. Oh well. Pushed down the trail for a few more miles in the dark. Total 28 miles.

Met up with a kindred spirit on Day 3, Kevin from San Diego. We informally hiked together the rest of the day, then pushed over Silver Pass and Bear Ridge for around 30 more miles.

We stuck together for the rest of the trip, Kevin became "Frodo" due to his preoccupation with Lord of the Rings. Thanks to my visually loud gaiters, I became "Disco". Everywhere I went, folks proclaimed "I like your gaiters" [especially the women :)]. Day 4 we made the decision to cut the mileage to 25 per day. We camped that night at the Piute Creek crossing at the northern entrance to Kings Canyon National Park. 100 miles to go.

Times to remember: Swim in Evolution Lake… found a $20 bill. Night hike over Glen Pass… Venus, sunglow, silhouettes, and the meteor showers. Foot soak at Crabtree. 3 hours sleep at Guitar Lake. After a total of 8 days, 8 hours, and 19 minutes, I stood atop Mt. Whitney at 5:19am (PDT) to await the sunrise.

Am I fast? Did I do it alone? Heck, no. But it was a good test of endurance and mental fortitude.

I learned a lot about myself and the cost and benefits of traveling ultralight. The tortoise finished the race.

For those of you with aspirations of setting records, best of luck to you. I found out I was much slower than anticipated. A thorough multi-day check is necessary to get the real feel for how much mileage you really are capable of over a period of time. I did two "day" outings: 39 miles up Whitney via Mountaineers Route, then out south over Cottonwood Pass to Horseshoe Meadow… 20 hours, and a 31-mile loop hike out of Mineral King, over Sawtooth Pass, across the backcountry with a return over Franklin Pass… 13 hours. Good workups both, but neither of these prepared me for the multi-day fatigue.

Take care, and always remember we are guests when traveling in the wilderness.

Oh, and for the record, timing started at Happy Isles ROAD. The sign with all the mileage was 4 minutes into the hike, after getting all my gear together. I finished the John Muir Trail at the SOUTHERN END of the John Muir Trail, atop Mt Whitney. If you really need to know the time to Whitney Portal, it was…?

[Jorge DeLaSierra]

Awesome trek. I am glad you reached your goals. Eight days is not too shaby, my friend. After some training and much consideration, I have checked my aspirations for a five day JMT to a more realistic seven to eight days. If I happen to be ahead in strength and time then, I will push on; but, I will not jeopardize enjoying beauty and maintaining safety. I know what you mean when you say the single day hikes will not prepare the hiker for a multi-day bonanza. Nevertheless, I have some ideas I want to explore. You did not mention blisters or other medicals issues. Did you have a trouble-free run?

Thanks for the report!
Happy Trails.
JD

[Kenneth L Muller]

Blisters were a factor as was my knee problem. I further injured my knee after the hike in the Rio Del Lago 100 miler this September. I am working with a podiatrist to see about getting orthotics / inserts. This will help the knee and I hope help the blister issue. My right foot overpronates and the shear on the bottom of my foot generates a "30-mile" blister, so from 30 miles on through 211 miles, I used a 2nd Skin dressing to ease the irritation.

Both blisters and the knee slowed me a bit. Resolve was much more important though. Perhaps I could have kept up 30+ mile days without the problems, not sure. No other medical issues, knock on wood.

Keep us informed on your ideas that you are exploring… and best of luck.

Ken

[Aaron Sorensen]

I am at the point where I know I can not break the JMT Record. Next year I am going to try to get the Unsupported TRT record again and try to get it down below 60 hours.
I will go for this record 2 or 3 times if necessary. Would love to get it below 55 hours for a 3 mph average, but that is a demanding pace…

I am also planning on doing the Deca Ironman in Mexico next Nov.
They stopped doing the Deca in 2006 or 2007. I was planning on doing it in 2008, but they have been doing 10 back to back days, with an Ironman distance each of the ten days. Not my cup of tea.

The Deca that's back now is a true Deca distance, Swim 24 miles, Bike 1120 miles and Run 262 miles.

The Record for the Deca is 8 days and 8 Minutes. Daddy wants this!

You think this is crazy, they are also doing a Double Deca with a 28 day cutoff time.

[Kenneth L Muller]

Go, Aaron !!! Yeah!

The Deca sounds like an awesome event. Best o'luck !

[Ben Egan]

Does anyone know the youngest person to solo hike the jmt supported or unsupported? Very curious to know.

Ben

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