Apr 25, 2013 at 2:15 pm #1302187
@messiahkhanLocale: Newcastle, UK
Following my questions regarding Bivvys, I am now wondering what the lightest and smallest packing 2 person shelter may be? Me and my wife currently use a Cuben MLD Supermid, but I am keen to keep driving my packweight and packsize ever further down. I am now down to a baseweight of just over 8lbs, but this could be lighter still.
I am thinking a tarp may be the way to go? But as it will mostly be used in the UK, bug protection and moisture protection are fairly high on the list. What are the best options here? Is it possible to have a SUL shelter for 2 people that is bug proof?
I am considering making my own setup, but once I have bought the Cuben fabric, I don't think I would be able to make it much cheaper than an off the shelf solution.Apr 25, 2013 at 2:44 pm #1980508
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
The Fly Creek UL2 Platinum is under 2 pounds for a double wall tent. Spotlight review in the articles section.
MY girlfriend and I use the regular Fly Creek UL2, comes in at 2 lbs 2oz without stakes or bags. Full packaged weight of mine is 2 lbs 9oz. We're small people though, 5'6" and 5'5", so the smaller space isn't an issue for us.
Its crazy how small the tent packs down though. Even when packed, I really do feel like i forgot it's in my pack.Apr 25, 2013 at 6:53 pm #1980596
@gregfLocale: Canadian Rockies
Probably the two person heximid or the Six Moons Haven Tarp. They are certainly the lightest optins.
As for a flat tarp I wonder if they would pack smaller. The 8.5 x 10 flat tarp at zpacks weighs more than the Heximid twin tarp so that suggests it uses more fabricApr 25, 2013 at 8:19 pm #1980617
@attaboybradLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
Crazy light. Excellent precipitation protection with the extended beak. Totally bug proof. Packs to under 6 liters.Apr 25, 2013 at 10:45 pm #1980644
@sgiachettiLocale: Boulder, CO
I'm just here to reiterate the awesomeness of the hexamid. I use the twin, its on the tighter side for two people, but if you want the lightest bugproof two person, I think thats it. Bugs aren't such an issue here in CO so I just have the tarp version.Apr 26, 2013 at 2:48 am #1980657
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Yeah, The Heximid twin is a nice, very light tent. All told it weighs about 19-20oz. See ZPacks site. This is well below the average 1lb per person I consider the limit for shelters.
Get the beak, you will likely need it. Here in the north-east USA, winds are not real bad, 20-40mph on a bad day, normally. (Maybe a bit more in the open areas.) The winds are not usually all that steady. So, open sided shelters, such as the Hexamids, are less often used than in the west. Spray penetrates at about 45 degrees, so, lower, smaller openings or, storm flaps are favoured. With a piece of elastic on the beak to maintain the entrance and exit size, you could drop this shelter, reducing the size of the opening a few inches. Hence, reducing the spray area. Internal space will suffer a bit, head room will be much reduced, and, the netting might pull and drape a bit oddly. Not a fatal weakness…Apr 26, 2013 at 7:47 am #1980712
Rather than lightest and most packable I think you should look at your needs and the conditions you will be facing and choose a shelter based on the answers to those questions. Packing into a tiny package and weighing virtually nothing is great until you have a nasty storm move in and you're pinned down for a while. Then features like wind resistance, space to move around, dual vestibules, etc. start to matter a lot. I realize it is blasphemy on this site to suggest it, but lightest and most compact isn't ALWAYS best. Figure out the features and comfort you need and then pick the lightest proven shelter that meets those criteria. Shelters easily attach to the outside of most packs anyway. Just my $.02.Apr 26, 2013 at 2:33 pm #1980836
I have the Big Agnes UL 2 Platinum and it definitely is not practical for two-its awesome for one however. I use a BA Fly Creek 3 for two people and at just over 3 lbs for a true tent, it's very nice. I like the Hexamid for two but my wife would never go for it so it depends on who you are hiking with and their temperament for being 'close' to the elements.Apr 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm #1980838
@stephen-mLocale: Way up North
What type of conditions do you need it for? A lot of UL tents would be hopeless in a 50mph wind.Apr 26, 2013 at 3:02 pm #1980845
"Here in the north-east USA, winds are not real bad,…"
Generally true, but Mt Washington might be considered a bit windy at times ;) I occasionally hike there, and tend to associate Northeast with Mt. Washington so just had to say something though i know i'm needlessly nitpicking.Apr 26, 2013 at 3:16 pm #1980851
What S Long said are some important points i think. With that said, personally i'm going to try out and experiment with a cuben poncho-tarp combined with a sea to summit nano pyramid mosquito net, and some 1oz cuben floor. Packed in my sea to summit ultra sil 20L "day pack" along with my emergency frogg toggs poncho for set up/take down in rain and also for putting over my EE revelation x quilt in more heavy rain/severe wind scenarios. Could be lighter, but i like durability as well. I expect for the average 2 night trip, that my total weight not including on skin, but including food and water will be about 4lbs for non winter backpacking.Apr 26, 2013 at 4:05 pm #1980866
@davidmilesLocale: Eastern Sierra
Would you mind posting that 4 lb pack list?Apr 26, 2013 at 4:22 pm #1980872
I expect for the average 2 night trip, that my total weight not including on skin, but including food and water will be about 4lbs for non winter backpacking.
Two nights means two dinners , two breakfasts and at least one lunch.
That should be at a very conservative 2 pounds already.(about 3 pounds for me and I don't eat all that much…)
Water is about 2 lbs per quart but let's pretend that you only hike with half a quart because there is water everywhere you do hike.
So we are up to about 3 lbs leaving you 1 lb for everything else….Apr 26, 2013 at 4:46 pm #1980876
I will when i get some of that equipment. I'm waiting on the Cuben poncho-tarp–while i don't know exactly how much it weighs yet, i expect it to weigh in-between 5.75 to 7 oz, plus a few oz for titanium stakes, dyneema cord.
My new quilt weighs about 15.75 oz. My Stoic Hadron down jacket weighs about 8 oz but i would only bring that for colder trips. Silk sleeping pants about 3 oz, also only bring that for colder trips. The Sea to Summit NANO net weighs about 3 oz. No stove, fuel etc and i need less food than most (i've practiced with fasting). My Sea to Summit pack weighs about 2.4 oz. A few oz's or so for sawyer squeeze filter and bottle. Miscellaneous fire starting stuff and lighting a few ozs or so (i often throw in a small beeswax tea light candle & bottom of an aluminum can). 2.8 oz for Frogg Toggs emergency poncho (only would bring if i knew there would be heavier rain). My M. Neo Air all season pad 18 oz. (but i could use foam instead).
Likely would be wearing the Houdini or Brooks LSD windjacket, or have it tied around my waist so i don't count that.
Dunno, but note i also said "around" 4lbs. Might be up to 4.5 or so. Keep in mind i live in and primarily hike in VA & the mountains of same, so easy conditions compared to a lot of places and i said for the average 2 night trip. Lately i've been going real minimalist. I'm just waiting on the Cuben poncho tarp, and extra cuben for groundsheet. I'll likely use some polycryo anyways and save the Cuben groundsheet for my later bag.
Anyways, when i get it all together, i will put up a more detailed and specific weight list. But my big 3 combo will be around 45 oz + or – 1oz (less if i use CCF instead of the NeoAir all season).Apr 26, 2013 at 4:52 pm #1980877
Franco, i can and often do eat MUCH less than most people and water is plentiful where i usually hike–springs every 10 miles or so. While i'm not sure, i also think there is a considerable size difference between us. I'm a shade under 5' 7" and weigh around 150lbs (i don't know exactly of late as our big weigh scale is not accurate anymore).
But i will grant you, perhaps i was being a bit wee optimistic on the overall weight. But if it's nice, warmish weather, i can get it down to "around" 4.5 lbs no problemo. The pack i use is less than 3 oz. The full shelter (tarp, bug net, groundsheet, stakes, cord) will total no more than 14 oz, my quilt can without straps is like 15 oz. I could tie some foam to the pack to use instead of the NeoAir M. all season pad, that would be around 6 or so oz.
Here's an idea of what i sometimes eat. Today at work, i helped move a family into a new place (not something i normally do). So, heavy lifting and manual labor essentially for a good 3 hours or so. Previously, for breakfast i ate a very small bowl of brown rice crisp cereal with a little low fat goat milk.
For lunch (during the move), i ate a few celery sticks, a few pieces of baby carrots, and a few cherry tomatoes, and some water. A little while after, i ate a fiber 1 bar.
That held me till around 6 p.m. when i ate some low fat frozen yogurt. Havne't eaten since and not hungry. Most people don't have a conception of how little calories i tend to consume at times, even when my body is fairly active. My weight is normal, healthy, etc. despite that.Apr 26, 2013 at 5:41 pm #1980890
Now I know…
you are LiteMan, the kapok guy.
To add, this is what I meant :
I'm a skeptic so that 4lb or so with food and water just did not sound right to me. Now that I know who you are I don't need to try to make sense of it ,from my point of view.
(Sorry Alasdair)Apr 26, 2013 at 6:03 pm #1980896
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
What?? You mean the second highest winds recorded on the planet is BAD?
Ha, hey…yes. Generaly, there is a lot of ground cover and the peaks are not much more than a 5000' high. Mt Washington happens to be the worlds worst though, or near to it.Apr 26, 2013 at 6:31 pm #1980905
Franco wrote, "Justin
Now I know…
you are LiteMan, the kapok guy."
I already "disclosed" this earlier & how does this relate at all to anything we are talking about? Why even bring it up?
Still stuck in high school mode? ; )Apr 26, 2013 at 6:34 pm #1980908
Hi James, yeah Mt. Washington is sure something unto itself for such a wee mountain.Apr 27, 2013 at 6:31 pm #1981176
Oh, i get it Franco. I knew it was a put down before, and i know it is now with your updated edit as well. Yes, you're subtle and oh so clever mate.
In fact, from past interactions, i know you're arrogant enough to tell someone that their repeated experiences are bunk and deluded, because if self didn't have those experiences, how could any other? "Skeptic" indeed.Apr 27, 2013 at 7:56 pm #1981198
@hikinggrannyLocale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
John Abela did a study last year–results here:Apr 27, 2013 at 11:20 pm #1981213
Clearly the DuoMid gives the best value for money.
Only 71c per g compared to the 1.07 per g for the Hexamid.Apr 28, 2013 at 12:22 am #1981216
I am going to ask some question just to help others to come up with the answer.
What size are you and your wife ?
What is the total weight of your Supermid set up ? (pegs /grounsheet/bug net …whatever you are using)
What is the size of that rolled up ?
Apart from weight and size what don't you like and what do you like about that set up ?
Is mud a problem where you camp ?
Wind driven rain ?
and … what mats do you use ?
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