Apr 23, 2013 at 5:02 pm #1302104
@maiaLocale: Rocky Mountains
Companion forum thread to:Apr 23, 2013 at 5:31 pm #1979878
I'll always think of Integral Designs as a Canadian company. Interesting way to sell it, inner or outer.Apr 23, 2013 at 6:07 pm #1979887
To be frank, I don't know WHAT they were thinking of when they designed this. I simply can NOT recommend it in competition with other brands.
CheersApr 23, 2013 at 6:19 pm #1979892
Is this shelter sold anymore?Apr 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm #1979895
@ John. Doesn't look like it is available anymore. I'm not a fan of end entry or tunnels in general.Apr 24, 2013 at 2:39 am #1979987
Thanks, Roger! A good follow up.
Kind'a glad it isn't available, anymore. The overall design looks good. The lack of integration is a bit scary. It seems a few days of design work would have straightened it out. The clips are a huge problem. The lack of a vestibule is a fatal design flaw. Tunnel tents by nature, are excellent at providing protection from the elements. No vestibule means they loose weather protection from opening the door, stowage for wet gear, and protection for the camper while cooking. Using the tent alone, leaves a camper open to bugs in latter spring, summer and early autumn.
I generally prefer the tunnel tent design when headed out with my wife. She needs bug protection in addition to general weather protection. For three season camping, the rugged, reliability of the tunnel types have proven over and over that they work in very wet, cold and windy conditions. The easy crawl in, flop and sleep is a major asset. No contortinist twists, to change position. In heavy rains and snow, it is easy to light the stove in a vestible and cook without wetting your clothing or shoes. And they maintain heat almost as well as the "perfect" semi-dome shape, easily adding +10 to +15 to the outside temps without the stove running … considerably more if you have a clean stove running for a bit.
The biggest downside is the weight. None of these type of tents currently on the market comes in at around 1 pound per person. All weigh considerably more. Even this tent goes about 50oz(generously) or about 1#9 per person, IFF you only use the TENT portion. (tent+poles+stakes+guylines+groundcloth) Of course, you can change poles, use minimal staking, light line to lighten it, but, this is ONLY the tent. Adding in the bug-tent starts adding a lot more, besides adding to the overall cost, custom poles are not exactly inexpensive.Apr 24, 2013 at 6:02 pm #1980235
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
Could it be that those clips attached to the poles for the B2 are supposed to be substituted for the clips that come with it if the B2 is going to be used together with the T2? Just wondering.
Thanks for the review, Roger. Since the original tunnel tent article, I've been looking for a good lightweight tunnel tent for you to look at. Still looking.
Was wondering why nobody makes them but you. But so long as that continues, you have a shot at cornering the market. It may be that tunnel designs require some more fabric than 'pop-ups' to cover a given area, and giving up the the extra height at the foot end of the tunnel in a pop-up is not a big sacrifice. Don't understand why so many companies favor the 2 hub 'Hubba' style, though. It would be interesting to know their thinking.
It would also be interesting to know if Cuben can be effectively used for a multi-hoop tunnel. It would do wonders for the weight, but you'd probably need more than just adhesive to keep the pole sleeves from separating from the canopy, and stitching might damage the Cuben under the force of heavy winds. With the 10-15&20 denier coated fabrics coming out, Cuben ain't looking so good as it used to.Apr 24, 2013 at 6:50 pm #1980247
"Could it be that those clips attached to the poles for the B2 are supposed to be substituted for the clips that come with it if the B2 is going to be used together with the T2? Just wondering."
I believe the clips were sewn in, from the above pictures.
Yeah, I own two, One is the old Exped and a Stephensons. The Stevensons is well designed but at my age, awkward to get into with the wife. We literally crawl all over each other getting in to the bags. The design is poorly executed and has no vestibule. Quite light at 2#14 with LOTS of ventilation, though. The Exped is bomber, but is heavy at 5#11. The tent alone goes about 3#4, I think. Nice in cold weather, though too warm for summer. I used to carry this when my pack weight was up around 16-17 pounds. Dropping it for a tarp was an easy way to hit 10# though.
Roger's tents are perfect, of course. I will wait to see what commercial production does to them though.
I supose you could use cuben. But I have to agree. Coated UL fabrics are getting a bit lighter. You can get very light 10D cloth, coated, at lighter than standard silnylon weights. The UL cloth often lacks any grid, soo, it will start loosing utility value. Tape is OK for emergency repairs, but it doesn't stay on very long. Typically .8oz per yard, it is close to .75 cuben, though. Cuben wuld be a LOT tougher. Generally, you might lighten up a tunnel by eliminating the inner tent, and adding a floor and mesh door. Pretty much doing away with the rest of the liner, at least in three season tents. You should get the weight down to 2 pounds for two people.Apr 24, 2013 at 11:34 pm #1980314
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
WHY do some tent designers continue to make tents that will let rain or snow directly into the tent when the door is opened???!!
(Probably because they never test the tents themselves.)Apr 25, 2013 at 3:36 am #1980336
> Roger's tents are perfect, of course. I will wait to see what commercial production
> does to them though.
The contract stipulates that Easton cannot use my name unless I approve of the tent. I'm being hard line.
CheersApr 25, 2013 at 3:37 am #1980337
> WHY do some tent designers continue to make tents that will let rain or snow directly
> into the tent when the door is opened???!!
Simple: they are designing for customers who only go out in fine weather. It's all the designers do, after all. Who need more?
CheersApr 25, 2013 at 3:50 am #1980339
Eric, I agree 100%.Apr 25, 2013 at 5:12 am #1980346
So why are we reading about this tent?
Bad design, not available.Apr 25, 2013 at 5:40 am #1980353
This is just an example of what poor engineering and design choices can do to an otherwise good type of tent. Tunnels, domes, A-Frames, lean-to, etc designs are all possible, of course. All can suffer from similar engineering and design faults and is worth looking at these examples as "lessons learned," if nothing else.Apr 25, 2013 at 12:11 pm #1980466
@mwgillenwaterLocale: Seattle area
"> WHY do some tent designers continue to make tents that will let rain or snow directly
> into the tent when the door is opened???!!
Simple: they are designing for customers who only go out in fine weather. It's all the designers do, after all. Who need more?"
I am asking myself this exact question with respect to some other tent designs. Specifically, MLD's Skyscape and Lightheart's Solo. I really like the dual treking pole approach. But it seems when you open them during a rain you are going to get precipitation directly into the living area of the tent. Anyone else have thoughts or experience on this general diamond footprint design.Apr 27, 2013 at 7:19 pm #1981191
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
You are so biased against pop-ups, it is about time you faced the reality of pop-up tunnels! HERE:
That should put your biases to rest once and for all. HAH!
SamApr 27, 2013 at 9:41 pm #1981208
Just what the world needs: three cackling manic American TV idiots plus two black-clad dumb stooges.
How do the TV stations make a living with that swill?
CheersApr 28, 2013 at 4:05 am #1981235
Where there's a swill , there's a swayApr 28, 2013 at 6:27 am #1981251
They're English cousins of yours Roger.Apr 28, 2013 at 9:15 am #1981271
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
Yet another reason why we Americans launched a revolution to gain our independence from England.
UNFORTUNATELY, the "anything for ratings" mindset has been adopted by many of our audio-visual production companies and networks.
Alas, even our elected representatives seem to have hopped on board the crazy train as well.
Time for another revolution, perhaps?
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