Sub – 2lbs lightweight internal frame pack — need market update

[Ken Thompson]

The Lightning is external frame though.

[Luke Schmidt]

I'm trying out an Exped Lighting 60 right now. PM me if you have specific questions. The 45 liter version is just over 2 pounds and I really like the solid hipbelt.

[Link .]

>One note of caution regarding the Kalais: Its side pockets are mesh. If you do much off trail hiking, especially in brush, those pockets will not hold up very well.

If you look at the Elemental site for their packs including the Kalais you can choose what you want your water bottle pockets to be made of including dyneema.They will make you an all dyneema pack if you want,it is one of your choices when you are picking out the features in the pack they are making for you.

[TJ W]

Great pack. Greet weight. Nice external pockets.

[Anonymous]

"If you look at the Elemental site for their packs including the Kalais you can choose what you want your water bottle pockets to be made of including dyneema.They will make you an all dyneema pack if you want,it is one of your choices when you are picking out the features in the pack they are making for you."

Oops, missed that one. Thanks for the correction, Anna, for everyone's sake.

[David Ure]

All dyneema gridstop. NOT all dyneema.

The surcharge for that option of dyneema gridstop is excessive.

[Jason Elsworth]

The surcharge for that option of dyneema gridstop is excessive.

Why?

[David Ure]

Because it is.

When Golite can charge about $100 for a dyneema gridstop bag and ULA will give you a full dyneema gridstop OHM for a small custom charge, it seems excessive. Maybe I don't find the fabric that exotic.

[Ken Thompson]

That 210 denier Dyneema gridstop fabric is old news. Should be a non charge option.

[Jason Elsworth]

Because it is.

LOL.

[David Ure]

I got a million more where that came from.

[Stuart .]

Is so last season for ULA. It's all "Robic" from hereonin. Whatever that means. Supposedly better tear resistance.

[Brian Reyman]

All mentioned here so far are good choices.

To toss in my favorites – I like Gossamer Gear and Hyperlite Mountain. Both are great companies and have great products. If you need a bit more volume, the Mariposa Plus is truly amazing. I love the exterior pocket organization. I also like the Gorilla. Any of Hyperlite Mountain's items are very solid, too.

[Kattt]

After three years of using the Osprey Hornet, I continue to be impressed. 1 lb, 8 ounces.

[Stephen Adams]

+2 for the Zpacks Arc Blast
Just did 750 miles from Campo to Whitney on The PCT with this pack. My base weight was 9 lbs but at times I had to carry 7 days of food and 6 liters of water so that would be close to 30 lbs. I met 2 other guys thru hiking the PCT with this pack and they loved theirs also.

[Brian Lindahl]

Honestly, spend the extra $50 in shipping and order each cottage pack and return all but the one that fits you the best (test at your local gym over several miles). Pack fit is SO particular to each individual, that you really should spend the extra $50 to get the best fit.

If you have cash to get the right pack, go McHale. It'll weigh about 1/2lb more, but you'll get the perfect fitting pack – well worth the extra 8oz. It'll pay HUGE dividends when carrying 20-25lbs.

The problem with all of these UL pack manufacturers is that they all have straight backpanels – there isn't a single one that has manufactured an intelligent curve into the fabric backpanel or pads that is maintained once packed. Sure, on some, you can bend the stays, but the load still won't ride close to your back (since only the stays are curved) and will still pull backwards. They're basically designed as solid bricks or cylinders. The only benefit that they have over frameless packs is that they don't collapse when the load gets higher. In my experience, this isn't enough to have truly comfortable carry at 20-25lbs. At those weights, I'd rather carry an extra 1lb of backpack that's designed properly – it will feel lighter (and the extra 1lb isn't even in the suspension!).

The other problem with the UL pack manufacturers is that there isn't a very rigid connection between the hipbelt and the stays. The sway and stretch of the fabrics (that hold the hipbelts and stays to the pack) will cause the stays to twist away from the hipbelt. This also means it'll pull backwards and even effectively acts as torso collapse. The removable hipbelt design is the biggest offender, here. You just can't make one that adequately attaches to stays, at least not with the designs on the current UL market.

IMO, there's a huge hole for someone to fill in quality UL framed packs. The fact that no one is doing it, is kind of astonishing, IMO. Most of these manufacturers don't have a clue how to do a good framed pack – they only know how to do a good frameless pack, and then just tossed stays into them with relatively little research, prototyping and design work (or at least it appears that way). There was probably a bit of copying from other UL manufacturers, as well, which really didn't do them any favors (other than to appear competitive on paper).

I didn't really pull any punches, but of the few UL framed packs I've tried, each one of them exhibited these problems and pales in comparison to a well-designed and well-fitted pack from a major manufacturer. The sad thing is, the weight of those packs are pretty outrageous, and NOT because of the suspension design. If a single UL manufacturer took a proper suspension design and then used UL materials and features, they'd blow away the competition. It would probably weigh a few ounces more than current designs, at most.

To toss one under the bus, the Gossamer Gorilla carried piss-poor. Anyone that argues otherwise has probably never tried a well-fitted framed pack that truly carried comfortably. It might carry 20+lbs better than a frameless pack, but it still carries poorly.

/endrant

[Piney]

Brian, have you tried the Arc Blast?

[Yoyo]

Well, I just went over to McHale's website and checked out some of their packs. They look quite nice, but with a price tag to match. I think you are looking at around $600 for one of these packs. Not cheap.

I do agree that a proper, ergonomic, well-made suspension system is important. I think that adding a few ounces to improve in this area would be well worth it. So I'd like to hear more about UL manufacturers who have thought this ought well.

[Brian Lindahl]

I have not tried the Arc Blast. The design looks different enough for it to possibly be better. However, from pictures, it still looks like the support pushes weight away from your back. Also, the hipbelt is not centrally attached nor does it appear to be sturdily attached to the stays – they're more or less wings. When a frame is necessary, weight saved in the suspension is often a good example of 'stupid light'.

[Piney]

Most of the framed packs I've tried transfer weight to the hip belt vertically, which can cause the belt to sag and slip downward. In my experience the pronounced curve of the Arc frame transfers the weight into the small of the back at something of an angle, which tends to keep the "lumbar" area of the pack glued to your back and makes the hip belt less important. I find the load transfer to be really excellent and every owner review I've read so far seems to agree.

Also, the Arc hipbelt is sewn to the pack bag right next to the bottom of each stay, and is stabilized by the shoulder strap attachment. I've never noticed any sway or twist – it's a pretty solid attachment in use.

[Anonymous]

"I didn't really pull any punches, but of the few UL framed packs I've tried, each one of them exhibited these problems and pales in comparison to a well-designed and well-fitted pack from a major manufacturer."

While you're in the mood, what is your take on the OHM 2.0?

[Kate Magill]

Brian–

I enjoyed your rant; thanks! I'm curious to know, though, what packs fall into the category of "a well-designed and well-fitted pack from a major manufacturer" for you?

[Jennifer Mitol]

Goodness Brian…

I have been backpacking for about 30 years. I have tried numerous Gregory packs, Osprey packs, Kelty external frame…and I have to say, hands down, none has carried as well as the Gorilla. And my new ULA circuit is a close second, and should do quite well for me on a through hike with a bear can and lots of water.

So I'm pretty sure your rather negative comments are your own personal experiences with packs you haven't seemed to have tried and do not in any way reflect the experiences of many of us.

I happen to find the flexibility of the gorilla to carry better than all those fully suspended Gregorys and Ospreys and Keltys that I've used over the years. It hugs my back like no pack I have ever carried, and the Circuit carries like a dream. I just need to talk myself out of buying an Ohm that I really don't need…..

[Kate Magill]

Most of us switch to frameless/UL packs once we've gotten our base weights down to the point that we're confident we don't need beefy suspension anymore. Almost any UL pack will feel comfortable compared to the heavy kit many of us used to carry. The question is, what do you do when your pack contents start to get heavy again… say, a weeklong trip with winter gear, or a trip with young children along? It's not fun carrying 30 lbs in a pack only designed to carry 20, even if it's only for the first couple days of a trip.

I love the design philosophy of UL packs, but there aren't many out there that I would really consider "do-it-all" packs, if doing it all involves carrying more traditional weights. As a minimalist who lives in a hundred-square-foot house, I would really like to have one pack instead of three, and I am coming to terms with the fact that whatever pack I end up with will have to have a good enough suspension to take me anywhere, anytime. Something I can't say of my frameless pack, even though it's perfect for 90% of what I do.

[Trace Richardson]

@Brian: From what you're explaining, it sounds like the Arc Blast fills that hole …. might be worth seeing if you can get your hands one locally to give it a shot …. getting my second one shortly with the new improvements that were recently made …. mine has been great over the last year …

[Author]

Posts