Apr 11, 2013 at 12:51 pm #1301583
A little background; being only 33 yrs old, polypro baselayers is a little before my time popularity wise. I didn't even really know about them until somewhat recently. At first i didn't consider them because of the horrid smell factor, but i got to thinking about other possible uses besides using them as a baselayer.
I've wondered about using it for midlayers, specifically in the context of cold and wet conditions. For an example, i was thinking of trying this–wearing a thin merino or merino poly/or acrylic blend for a baselayer, wearing a thinnish polypro "baselayer", which i've soaked in DWR, over the top, and then wearing say my Brooks LSD II windshirt as the last, outer layer in cold rainy conditions. I would probably attach a polypro hood to the polypro mid layer.
Has anyone tried this, or something similar to same for these kind of conditions? Polypro seems to have so many advantages for lightweight backpacking that it seems a shame to not use it. It's very light weight, extremely hydrophobic, very thermally non conductive, and while not as durable as nylon or even polyester it's still more durable than most natural fabrics–especially more than thinner merino wool.
Wearing the merino underneath should minimize the odor factor, by filtering some of the body oils, dead skin, etc.
Thoughts, experiences, opinions?Apr 11, 2013 at 1:02 pm #1975389
Daryl and DarylParticipant
@lyrad1Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
I currently wear a thin polypro over my fishnet. Reduces air movement around the fishnet and dries quickly. Fishnet keeps the wet (I'm always wet) polypro off my skin so I don't get that chilling feeling from the polypro. A windbreaker tops things off.
If I'm cold or it is raining I insert a closed cell foam upper garment between the polypro and the windbreaker.Apr 11, 2013 at 2:18 pm #1975412
Thanks for the feedback Daryl. A couple of questions if you don't mind. How stinky does the polypro get, and how fast does it get that way?
2nd, have you tried using it by itself, without foam, during cold and wet conditions, and if so, did it wet through?Apr 11, 2013 at 2:29 pm #1975417
They sell a polypro that is fleece lined. These work great as mid layers. They are mainly sold cheap at like military surplus stores. I brought these up in another thread but did not realise it was fleece onthe inside. I used to have one of these when I was really young I used it mainly for hunting chukar in nevada. The mornings can be brutally cold and the afternoons can be blazing hot.Apr 11, 2013 at 2:55 pm #1975426
Funny enough Josh, i have a polypro shirt that looks JUST like that one, which i did get from military surplus store via ebay.
Fleece is not a specific fabric or fiber, but a style or characteristic though. That polypro shirt is all polypro, but they do a "fleece" making process on the inside. They do that to increase wicking action, to increase heat retention, and to increase softness/comfort. The only downside is that it will increase piling as well, and thus slightly weakens the structure of the fabric.
The term fleece originally applied to wool and other woolen natural fibers.
Btw, my shirt that looks exactly like the above one, i believe weighs 11 oz. Not bad for the thickness, tight outer weave, very high neck and partial zip features. I believe it would be too thick for the purpose i want to use it for as outlined earlier in this thread in my 1st post.Apr 11, 2013 at 3:20 pm #1975434
Yeah mine was really light fom what I remember and really warm. The only issue I remember with it was that mine would stretch out and not go back unless washed. So it had a wierd fit. But I might take a trip to a local army surplus and pick one up for fun. post on here how awsome my 15 dollar fleece is and make you all jealous with your 200 dollar pattys….HAHAHApr 11, 2013 at 4:02 pm #1975446
Ok so I'm that guy where anything and everything can be a reference to when I was in the military. I'll own that.
I've used these polypros and I like them. They dry quickly, they are very warm, and I don't remember them smelling any worse than anything else I've ever used. After a few days in the field, we will all smell like butt flavored corn chips anyways so I don't see what the big deal is. Maybe I am just nose-deaf to my own funk?
The trick to get better mileage out of them is to wash them inside out and air dry them.Apr 11, 2013 at 4:22 pm #1975452
@paulmagsLocale: People's Republic of Boulder
I have and use the ECWCS polypro (http://coldweatherclothing.ciehub.info/ECWCS.html ) for winter.
Mainly for base camp purposes (like Chaco ..brrr!), but the shirt also works well as a 'shirt-jac'. I was toying with the idea of using it this winter for skiing in this way, but never got around to it.
FWIW, for many years, I used lightweight polypro for my thru-hikes. Seemed to work OK. It is dirt cheap, too.Apr 11, 2013 at 4:49 pm #1975460
Thin polypro against the skin really wicks (thinking Lifa from HH) but gets really smelly really quick. Then other companies came up with their own polyester base layers (Capilene, etc…) which cost more. The military went with polypro probably since it's cheaper (in the budget-cutting 1990's) and developed the thick polypro sweater to replace the old Vietnam-era wool one. It wasn't until recently (thinking about 5 years ago) when the military went with waffle-fleece, soft shells, etc.. in response to Afghanistan (had to deploy there to initially get the stuff).Apr 11, 2013 at 7:36 pm #1975536
Thanks for the tip Ian.
Yep Paul, the one you mentioned seems to be the one i have as well. I'm looking to get some thinner ones. I'm curious about layering two thin ones rather than having one thick, heavier one. But i'm not interested in using them as baselayers.
HK, why do you think the military switched from the Polypro to the Poly, etc? Flammability or melting issues?
Thank you for the feedback everyone. So far it seems like no one has experimented with this specific idea of turning it into a sort of cold weather raingear?Apr 11, 2013 at 8:05 pm #1975561
I have lots of old polypro underwear.
It is warmer than most polyester fabrics of equal weight
It is lighter than most polyester fabrics, except powerdry
I have never had a smell issue with polypro
It picks up lint, pet hair, fuzz horribly, cannot keep it clean
Surface pills badly
They lose their "snap back" ability and get loose and stretched out when they get old
Drying them in the dryer too hot will really damage them.Apr 11, 2013 at 8:13 pm #1975571
Hi M.B., thanks for the info. Re: the last part of your post, kind of makes me wonder why more manufactures don't blend it with other fibers. For example, Polypro with some polyester, and/or a little spandex should help some of those issues. The only blend that i've heard about is a Merino and Polypro blend, but it seems pretty uncommon.Apr 11, 2013 at 8:16 pm #1975576
Justin: Yes, flammability issues. The wickiness was great, … many bought aftermarket UA Heat-gear on their own dime, but everyone neglected to think about flame (didn't read about the Falklands problem).
I was thinking about the civilian Lifa polypro however. The stench was truly horrible, so I just used it for day trips in the snow pre-merino wool.Apr 11, 2013 at 8:17 pm #1975577
On a side note, i would love to see and test out some Polypro microfiber clothes. Anyone know if they even make this for clothes?Apr 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm #1975589
I don't remember the military ones stinking all that bad. At least they didn't smell as bad as I did in comparison lol! I'm glad that they've gone with a safer material though.Apr 11, 2013 at 8:39 pm #1975596
Ian: It may also be my oily skin, which becomes a buffet for bacteria – wrapped up for the little suckers like a polypro burrito. It was so bad on my Jansport Rockies 7000cu in+ monster pack at the time, I strapped a sun shower to the top and debated on making a cedar "grid" floor to carry as well. Same thing happened with the military version smell-wise.Apr 11, 2013 at 8:57 pm #1975603
Ian, i've heard/read that a lot actually, about the Polypro stinking quickly There seems to be direct relationship between the moisture regain properties of the different fibers and degree of stink or not.
The more hydrophobic, the more stinky in general. This "may" be because the oils, dirt, dead skin, and related micro organisms that feed on same (primarily bacteria and fungi) get trapped in-between and build up in the fibers, and it's hard to wash them out because they literally sort of repel the water off the surface, whereas natural and hydrophillic fibers attract the water close to the surfaces and the water can better wash out all that stuff which the micro-organisms love to feed off and proliferate on.
Polypro being THE most hydrophobic of the commonly used fibers and fabrics for clothing, will tend to have the worst problem with this unless treated in some way to prevent same. Followed by polyester, followed by acrylic, followed by nylon. Nylon seems to be the least innately stinky synthetic because it has the highest moisture regain property of the synthetics although should still be considered basically hydrophobic.
I have no idea if this is completely true or not, but it's what i've pieced together using holistic logic and listening to the experiences of others or myself with different fabrics and wondering the "whys" behind same.
But I guarantee you Ian, that if you did a longer term thru hike, and took say an untreated polypro baselayer and one merino wool baselayer and wore them equally as much at different times, there would be a HUGE difference in the stink factor of them at the end, or even just a just a week in. This is part of the reason of why i have no interest in using polypro as a baselayer. Now putting a layer of odor controlling fabric in between my body and the polypro, should help that out quite a bit–theoretically speaking at least–i have yet to test it out.Apr 11, 2013 at 9:12 pm #1975612
I'm not promoting it I'm just saying that I didn't have those problems with it. I was stationed at Ft. Drum NY as a grunt and wearing it for 2-4 weeks without bathing wasn't unheard of. We smelled like holy hell. Wearing merino wool or cuben fiber onesies wouldn't have changed that. I'd wash them and they would smell fine until the next ftx.
I rarely wear anything more than a light base layer and maybe a shell for three seasons. I'm good to 30* in that set up when I'm moving. So far, the only outdoor activity I'm in to for the winter is alpine skiing and a recent return to snowshoeing. The civy poly pros I wear for that doesn't smell worse than I do and they're odor free after I wash them. The key thing being that I'm not wearing them for days on end.
I'm working on taking my backpacking to all four seasons and going to build a pulk sled in the off season. I'll have the summer to dial my winter gear in and I'm sure that will include merino wool over poly pros but tbc.Apr 11, 2013 at 9:19 pm #1975617
I hear yah Ian, and i wasn't trying to argue, just trying to explain the possible whys behind common reports.Apr 11, 2013 at 9:29 pm #1975626
No it's cool bruddah! I've been in the woods for a while but I'm way behind the power curve when it comes to gear. I appreciate your input.Apr 11, 2013 at 9:36 pm #1975627
To be honest, i'm pretty behind that curve too compared to a lot of people here, which is why i tend to ask a lot of questions, or often say things in a more questioning manner. The only thing i know pretty well is fabrics, because i have a particularly strong interest and experiment basse in same. But for a lot of other things, i'm more or less a newbie and i'm sure you have a lot more experience than moi in a lot of areas and i appreciate you sharing your experiences with polypro (& other things too).Apr 11, 2013 at 11:44 pm #1975668
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
I used polypro for over 20 years. Yeah, it smelled some but what doesn't when you're perspiring? I still have one pair left. I mostly use capilene now since it lasts a lot longer and does shrink and pile like polypro.Apr 11, 2013 at 11:58 pm #1975670
What with fancy dancy, high efficiency front loading washers today, combined with gentle soaps, and hanging to dry in closet, i bet some of that could be remedied quite well. Some might call some of that "work", and think it's a hassle, but i already do some of that for other fabrics like merino–so i'm used to it. Again, it's a shame there aren't more polypro blends make, also could help a lot. 25% nylon, 10% spandex, etc. included can do wonders.
"Yeah, it smelled some but what doesn't when you're perspiring?"
Gorgeous run way models wearing the newest super duper antiperspirants, or so "they" would have you believe? But, i never really fully trusted or listened to "them" anyways.Apr 12, 2013 at 12:21 am #1975672
Also, if you don't use the polypro as a baselayer, but as a midlayer, you won't have to wash it as much, which also will extend the (quality) life of the garment.
;)Apr 12, 2013 at 12:32 am #1975673
Ooh, ooh, polypro wet dream!
Just wish it was larger… (that's what "she" said?)
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