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Still going without tp?
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Mar 21, 2013 at 9:15 am #1968163
"they generally don't have any hair down there, or shouldn't…"
WHAATTTT????
I hope you're joking.
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:18 am #1968165I use a product called Gotta Go Waste Bags, however, I don't take the bags themselves just the package of powder they provide that contains enzymes and bacterial agents that speed decomposition of feces into organic soil. After doing your business you can sprinkle some of the powder, cover with soil.
http://www.greentoilet.net/products-/biodegadable-waste-bags
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:19 am #1968166Little bit of a rant there Nate? Or was that sarcasm? Not sure if serious.
Not sure where you camp, but the outhouses I've used have always been in pretty good shape. Even next to lakes covered with empty worm containers and fishing line.
If you burn and bury your TP, ain't much litter left.
Some people where never taught growing up how to clean up with anything other than TP, but if you want to host a skills workshop at REI, I'm sure the classes will sell out.
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:23 am #1968168Yep.
Do my business, cup the hand and wash with water. Apply a dollop of Purell. No need to dry, unless you are wearing cotton — heaven forbid. Polyester dries in just moments.
In my view, the best and most thorough cleaning is, of course, a full shower. Following that would be the method I just described. Pushing toilet paper around and around one's asshole cleans even less. But regardless of TP or no TP — wash and/or sanitize your hands before returning to camp. :)
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:28 am #1968170@Paul
Compostable baby wipes
http://www.elementsnaturals.com/Mar 21, 2013 at 9:29 am #1968173>"I'm aware that stirring up the soup and mixing in natural material will help the waste break down quicker but I was wondering if adding a pinch of septic tank pro biotics would help speed the process along."
This comes rather close to my day job – the clean up of contaminated waste sites. Various practitioners and vendors offer their propriety bacteria that are supposedly optimized for different contaminants. The thing is, at least a dozen species of soil bacteria can metabolize gasoline and diesel-range hydrocarbons, amazing though that may seem. What you deposit is even easier for them to digest and is already loaded with bacteria.
If you want to help the process, here are things that universally help aerobic bacterial action: atmospheric air (poop in loose soil, not tight clay), water (pee in the same hole), fertilizer (pee in the same hole), and warmth (a south-facing, exposed-to-the-sun patch of soil will be >10C warmer in the summer at a 6" depth than a shaded area).
I don't suggest the following for several reasons, but if you (1) added a pinch of Scott lawn fertilizer, (2) stirred well, and (3) dusted the replaced surface with carbon-black soot (to increase solar heating); you'd increase the degradation rate at least 10-fold. Sewer treatment plants, with active management of oxygen and nutrients, can degrade human waste in about a day. In more controlled settings, I can take toxic-waste-containing water to drinking water standards in less than an hour.
An afterthought: for how helpful peeing in the hole is (especially in the dry summer Sierra), and to avoid peeing on the shorts around your ankles, how about this: Dig the hole. Pee on the spoils pile. Do #2 in the cat hole. Stir in the wettest soils. Finish filling hole. Cover with leaf litter.
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:33 am #1968176"I notice a lot more women have an easier time going without TP"
Huh? I think some anatomy lessons are due here…Mar 21, 2013 at 9:38 am #1968179"Please post when you find baby wipes that decompose."
http://www.target.com/p/attitude-eco-baby-biodegradable-baby-wipes-216-count/-/A-13313851
http://www.coolmompicks.com/2009/04/biodegradable_baby_wipes_that.php
http://ecosalon.com/reduce-your-childs-carbon-bumprint/
Because I won't be able to sleep unless I know that my pooping will meet Nate's approval, I will return to using marmots. You people with your pocket calculators and VCRs….
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:41 am #1968180>"It's number one that I need to figure out what to do…"
Jennifer: using grass or a twig to flick pubic hair back and forth removes most all of the urine.
>"not surprising since they generally don't have any hair down there, or shouldn't…"
Nick: Quite true for a Brownie troop or anyone posing as a prepubescent girl. But adult women are mammals, too.
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:43 am #1968182"Huh? I think some anatomy lessons are due here…"
My comment was in regards to #2.
I'd have less qualms about other cleaning methods if I was just dealing with urine.
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:55 am #1968190Yes
Faster, lighter and cleaner for me and mother nature….and the next guy!
It's a basic skill. Learn it and don't look back.
Mar 21, 2013 at 9:59 am #1968192For those that can't squat there is the Loop N' Poop or Strap N' Crap
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:12 am #1968201All joking and snarkiness aside, you people have convinced me to adopt a natural cleaning regimen. I will turn over a new leaf this season…. literally.
(editor's note – no marmots were harmed in the trolling of this thread)
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:17 am #1968202>"(editor's note – no marmots were harmed in the trolling of this thread)"
The bear asks the rabbit: "Don't you hate how the crap sticks to your fur?"
Rabbit, "Crap doesn't stick to my fur."
Bear: "Good." Visual: bear grabs rabbit and wipes himself.
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:19 am #1968204David,
Thanks for your input on this topic. I enjoy reading your comments and appreciate your technical expertise.
I'm going to use your suggestions to improve my cat hole technique but I understand that you don't suggest pro biotics or fertilizer? Is this for environmental reasons or for weight? If only a pinch of fertilizer is needed, it would seem that an oz per movement would cover it and I'd be willing to carry it if it would appreciably reduce the impact.
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:25 am #1968208LOL !! funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Thanks Mangus for posting!
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:26 am #1968209As usual, a thread about poop is enlightening, entertaining, and horrifying by turns (Purell, Ben?!?! Alcohol-based gel anywhere near a mucus membrane or orifice sounds like a recipe for regret).
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:26 am #1968210Here's another video posted by Andrew Skurka a few years back
-Backcountry Poo-Poo Clinic-
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:27 am #1968211"Bear: "Good." Visual: bear grabs rabbit and wipes himself."
Heard that joke as a kid, and immediately it didn't make sense to me, because a rabbit would make very poor toilet paper if crap didn't actually stick to his fur.
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:40 am #1968216If only a pinch of fertilizer is needed,
The "deposit" itself is actually fertilizer, though modern man bags it from cows and markets it as manure through ye olde' big box home improvement store. Depends on the microenvironment of the "deposit" is how fast it and any accompanying tissue decays (your own conscious and the land manager rules/regs). Leaves and stones work with hand sanitation and it's a good practice because there comes a time when one finds themselves tp-less … but it's always good to have a "reserve" of tp/blue towel squares/etc.. in the pack just in case.
Think we can all find common sense solution but also check your land management office if "deposits" are even allowed. That would be an embarrassing ticket from a ranger…
(ed: add)
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:49 am #1968220Ian: The pro-biotics are unnecessary. If the topsoils can support life, it is already there. Even in a sand dune, you're depositing trillions of bacteria with every dump.
I wouldn't suggest carrying fertilizer. There's a fair bit of biologically available NPK (nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium – the building blocks of DNA, proteins and enzymes) in poop and pee. If you were burying something without built-in fertilizer (paper only, clothing, gasoline in my work), then added fertilizer can make a big difference in kicking off development of a large bio mass.
Adding excess fertilizer would be a bad thing. Nitrates and nitrites are groundwater and surface water pollutants (they can lead to algae blooms in warm waters). Dissolved fertilizers can travel much further than bacteria – a well functioning septic leach field does all it's work with 2 feet of the perforated pipe, leaving no bacteria percolating deeper into the ground.
I was giving a pull-out-all-the-stops approach. Stuff I do to clean up a decades-old toxic waste site in months. For me, best backpacking practices would be:
Do it in a warm spot, mix with soil, add some water if easy. Those steps will result in many-fold faster degradation. And they weigh nothing.
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:55 am #1968223>"because a rabbit would make very poor toilet paper if crap didn't actually stick to his fur."
Explaining a joke kills it, but:
It's not that rabbit fur is teflon. It's that vegan rabbit pellets aren't sticky. Omnivore bears, on the other hand. . . . Therein lies the humor, such as it was.
Mar 21, 2013 at 10:59 am #1968226"Anyone still going w/o tp?"
Did my first few TP free trips last year, previous years I'd use Corn Lily leaves and rocks most the time, but would take a little TP for the final clean up. It was very liberating to get beyond that and not have to deal with dirty paper anymore.
My girlfriend is fighting it though, and even though I've suggested she pack it out, she only brings back paper after peeing. After pooping she comes back and says, "don't look at me like that!". I think I somewhat enabled her by mentioning in her company to backpacking friends, that if people were going to be obstinate and leave their TP in the woods, they should at least dig a separate hole for the TP and stir it up with water and dirt so it doesn't end up being recognizable if dug up.
I think she needs is a good "how to" video with a woman instructor, in order to take away all her objections that women are somehow so different to men that pooping without TP is a life threatening practice.
Mar 21, 2013 at 11:09 am #1968232"Explaining a joke kills it,"
When I was a kid my dad's response was, "and bears and rabbits don't talk either".
Mar 21, 2013 at 11:27 am #1968234" It was very liberating"
Indeed. Heck, when I was a newbie back in 2004 — my virgin overnight trip — I wasn't scared of getting lost or getting eaten by lions — no — my big concern was how to do business without modern plumbing! I decided to try by going the full nine yards — and indeed, it was most liberating. And since that trip, I've never carried TP for Business No. 2 out in the wilds. Still use TP at home though — but followed by a wash as well.
Although in truth, this most natural of acts shouldn't be any kind of a big deal at all. Just shows how much we are prisoners of our own culture — for better and for worse.
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