Feb 13, 2013 at 12:43 pm #1299222
Not exactly a Gear Deal, but GoLite just put out their new gear. SL2 will be returning, but without a dedicated net by GoLite (or so it appears). Two new freestanding tent styles in 2p and 3p; the lighter weight 2p looks very competitive for the price point but perhaps a little cramped. Updated versions of sleeping bags and quilts for both men and women. New clothing and luggage as well. Doesn't look like any new packs.Feb 13, 2013 at 2:51 pm #1954076
@eagleriverdeeLocale: Eagle River, Alaska
They posted it a few days ago, problem being it's a teaser because they still don't have any inventory. I like GoLite products but I don't know how they can stay in business being out of inventory on products for months at a time. They lost several sales I would have liked to have given them and went with another brand instead.Feb 13, 2013 at 7:00 pm #1954161
That Imogene looks a lot like an MSR Nook, but a pound lighter! If it is the same size, it would be a little cramped for 2 people. That's about the same weight as the SL1 was too.
The 30F quilt looks good, but I have a 20F from them that weighs nearly the same. Hmmm…maybe I need to sell a quilt…Feb 14, 2013 at 6:12 am #1954280
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
I hate it when makers don't list the fill weight of down bags or quilts. I have an old Golite Ultra 20 which I only find good to the mid twenties. Most people claim it is more of a 30* quilt.Feb 14, 2013 at 8:02 am #1954300
I took a look at the new sleeping bag series and I am incredibly disappointed. I remember at some point that GoLite had noted their new sleeping series coming this spring would be lighter and warmer than the 1-season and the Ultra 20 that have been much discussed here before.
Now what I see is:
1) The weights are totally unimpressive. 1lb 4oz for a 2-season quilt?
That's no better than anything that came before it.
2) The prices are absurd. Suggested retail for the quilt given above is $500? Who on earth would pay that? So much for GoLite's vaunted direct-sale business model bringing dramatically lowered costs. It looked promising to begin with, but maybe those initial lowered prices were just old inventories being liquidated.
Poor show, GoLite. Super disappointed.Feb 14, 2013 at 8:57 am #1954313
@lunchandynnerLocale: Pacific Northwest
Yeah, their suggested prices are whack sometimes. I'm glad I picked up my 2012 Quest 65L pack when I did (<$100), as the price has gone up now. Their Malapis and trinity 3L jackets used to be $74.99, but now its $124.99…. still really competitive though. But the "suggested prices" are crazy for the sleeping bags/quilts… such as the adventure series… suggested price of $400 for a 650 FP bag? Crazy talk.
edit: Just noticed they changed their site a little since last night.
Their rush 20L daypack line no longer has yellow, and it is now 59.99 instead of 72.99Feb 14, 2013 at 8:59 am #1954314
I do agree that some of their prices are still competitive. The suggested prices are laughable across the board, though. But yeah, some of their clothing, packs, and even some of the new shelters have fairly respectably low price points. I can see they're doing some good work in some areas, but those quilts … man … what a letdown.Feb 14, 2013 at 10:11 am #1954334
@ramboLocale: sandiego ca
Jam packs are back in stock. there seems to be a run on these things latly even ebay has been selling them like hotcakes maybe this will fill the need all colors sizes ready to ship and still priced pretty good.Feb 14, 2013 at 10:13 am #1954335
Do they have frames now or will they carry like crap as before?Feb 14, 2013 at 10:24 am #1954343
@ramboLocale: sandiego ca
i am not sure how they will carry but i will tell ya in a week or to! if it does not work well keep an eye out in the gear exchange;) i am using a mariposa plus now and i love it but thought i would give the jam a go since there must be something to stampede of people buying them? am i a sucker… maybe.Feb 14, 2013 at 11:44 am #1954381
"The weights are totally unimpressive. 1lb 4oz for a 2-season quilt?
That's no better than anything that came before it.
The prices are absurd."
Enlightened Equipment Revelation 30 degree 6' Regular, 19.25 oz, $265 and much lauded on this forum.
GoLite Unisex Z30 Quilt (Regular)(=6'), 20oz, $249.99.
I don't really see the problem with the weight or price of the GoLite, since the EE quilts seem to be regarded as impressive for weight and price.
I know the Rev X is cheaper, but I think that would be an unsuitable comparison since the GoLite's Quantum GL is a very light and expensive material.
I'm not especially a GoLite fan, but the weight and price of this bag don't seem to deserve the disdain currently being pored on them, though as far as I'm aware we don't yet know the fill weight or dimensions.
Also, I don't mean to put down Enlightened Equipment – I chose the Rev for comparison as it seems to have similar price and specs and to be a very good, much loved quilt.Feb 14, 2013 at 12:09 pm #1954393
@dianodaLocale: Chicago, IL
Yeah, for the most part I find the new 850FP bags/quilts to be priced competitively. $400 for a -10F bag with WPB in the footbox and hood, and only 3lbs? Heck, a WM Lynx MF (western mountaineering's -10F mummy bag) has an MSRP of $645 for the 6ft version, actually sells for that much, and weigh 2oz more. If the temp ratings and weights are accurate, these could be a good/great deal.Feb 14, 2013 at 12:17 pm #1954401
You're quite right, and maybe I spoke a little hastily.
My complaint again is not that GoLite fails to compete with the market — sure, I think they do. Clearly based on your comparison, they at least have managed to price their quilt at a similar number as Enlightened Equipment, which is a cottage industry that (I assume) doesn't enjoy nearly the degree of supply chain reach and economies of scale that GoLite can take advantage of.
But, GoLite has claimed that their new direct-sale-only structure is going to bring prices down and they'll be able to beat the market consistently. This was certainly the case for the back half of 2012, when their deals were probably 25% – 50% lower than the average for almost every item in their inventory.
Then later, we found out those prices were actually their CLEARANCE prices, not the new MSRPs as a result of the improved sales model. They introduced this gradually, and those 'Suggest Price(s)' on their website kept creeping up to keep pace. That's just shady. Others have said it here. I am concurring. Who exactly is "suggesting" these higher and higher prices? Who would actually pay $500 for what EE and GoLite both sell for $250?
What I'm ultimately disappointed about is that in 2012 you could get a whole range of quilts for under $200, or even under $150, brand new direct from GoLite. Now, with their exciting new lineup that was supposed to be lighter than what came before it, the quilts start at $250. It's true, this may be no higher than the MSRP for, say, the Ultra 20 from a few years ago. But that was before GoLite switched their sales model. They made promises during that transition that are not being delivered on, except for that short Q3 and Q4 of 2012.
Hope that makes sense. That being said, I really enjoy my GoLite gear. But I won't be paying GoLite directly for it anymore. Will have to hunt on the Gear Swap from now on, or wait for more "clearance" prices.Feb 14, 2013 at 2:36 pm #1954459
I asked Golite CS questions about the new quilt's fill weight and length, and received a "don't know until they get here" answer, which I find interesting, since they list total weight now.Feb 14, 2013 at 2:41 pm #1954461
"I hate it when makers don't list the fill weight of down bags or quilts. I have an old Golite Ultra 20 which I only find good to the mid twenties."
Me to, but GoLite usually has these specs via "online chat'. Your Ultra 20 is 9.5oz down – likely the same as the new 30F one.
"Do [Jam packs] have frames now or will they carry like crap as before?"
What's up with the inflammatory remarks? The Jam has always been regarded as being one of the better carrying frameless packs, but as with all frameless packs it is has more to do with how it's packed then the pack itself. Of all the things to diss Golite on, this is probably the least well founded.
"Who exactly is "suggesting" these higher and higher prices? Who would actually pay $500 for what EE and GoLite both sell for $250?"
The suggested prices are high, but they're not way out of line. I'd say 10-20% high. EE is a value oriented brand and not representative of what most quilts retail for. Katabatic sells their 30F Palisade for $390 and Nunatak sells their 32F Arc Specialist for $434. GoLite would probably tell you their quilt is higher end that either of these, with the WP/B fabrics at the ends. They could put together a plausible argument for a $450 MSRP.
Anyways, it's the 'suggested price' thing is semantics anyways. What really matters is that GoLite is selling a darn nice quilt for $250 – cheaper than anyone else. And it'll certainly go "60%" off at some point which means $200.Feb 14, 2013 at 2:56 pm #1954465
Sorry Dan, the Jam is now officially a heavy piece of frameless crap. When there are 1oz frames rolling about, the reasoning behind a 2lb, 50L FRAMELESS pack is beyond comprehension.
I encourage you to read Dave C's review of the Jam to see where it continues to fall short.
"Of all the things to diss Golite on, this is probably the least well founded."
Give your head a shake.Feb 14, 2013 at 6:02 pm #1954528
Ian, the z30 might actually be a better quilt than the old ultra 20. I love my ultra 20 and it's still my workhorse. But it's uses 9.5 oz of 800fp down. The z30 uses 850fp. If someone can confirm with golite the amount of fill, and if it happens to be 9.5oz or more…than that's better than the ultra20 in my book, even if it weighs 1 oz more than the ultra 20. The fabrics have been upgraded, the warmth would have increased, and the weight gain is negligible.Feb 14, 2013 at 7:57 pm #1954579
While the Golite MSRP's seem crazy to me, so do the prices at REI, EMS, etc. I buy all of my gear on clearance or sales. And Golite has a LOT of them. I have Golite packs and quilts and bags and clothes. I also have that same stuff from REI, EE, GG, and others. The quality seems close to me.
My advice: Wait for the sale!Feb 15, 2013 at 4:06 pm #1954846
@eagleriverdeeLocale: Eagle River, Alaska
I still don't understand why people get their knickers in a wad over the MSRP because it's irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the price you're going to pay, and on that score I find Go-Lite to be competitive. I am disappointed in this year's shelter offering. I like their sleeping bag offering. But mostly, I wish they'd get their stuff together and actually get some inventory.Feb 15, 2013 at 4:33 pm #1954861Feb 17, 2013 at 1:10 pm #1955337Feb 17, 2013 at 1:23 pm #1955339
Wear it for 10 miles and then report back.Feb 17, 2013 at 4:40 pm #1955414
Sorry Dan, the Jam is now officially a heavy piece of frameless crap. When there are 1oz frames rolling about, the reasoning behind a 2lb, 50L FRAMELESS pack is beyond comprehension."
I agree that a 2 lbs frameless pack is a bit of a misfit. It's hefty for its targeted use.
However, the Jam has always been a frameless pack intended for lighter loads. Critiquing it for being frameless is like critiquing a compact car for being compact. The real issue here is that it's oddly heavy for its niche – it's like Honda releasing a compact Civic that only gets 15 mpg. If Honda did that, you'd ask why it only gets 15 mpg, not why isn't it a truck.
The Jam's gotten heavier due to feature creep and GoLite should work to reverse this, not turn it into something else. And GoLite has been working on this – it's gotten 2oz lighter in its latest iteration.Feb 18, 2013 at 12:47 am #1955516
@nedjursekgmail-comLocale: Pacific Northwest
I have followed Golite with some detached amusement. At one point, long, long ago, it actually made UL gear like the Gust and the Breeze. Long ago it moved to a mass market model and gained the weight the mass market demands. Do you want fries with your Jam 70? Then, it flirted with this direct marketing model that promised savings. Now, it has risen its prices to near or at Cottage company levels. Do you want fries with our absurd MSRP's? At some level honesty and integrity must matter, even at the cynical level of brand value. Golite is simply another corporation trying to exploit what it perceives as a niche market opportunity. I will be sending my money to places like MLD, Zpacks, and Enlightened Equipment, where the owners answer my emails, or are too busy hiking to get back to me for a few days. There is still honesty, integrity and better, lighter gear out there as long as we support it. I bought a piece of Golite gear during that direct sales honeymoon and have since sold it on the Gear Swap Forum. I just can't support them, defend them, or apologise for them. Golite's new prices just make supporting the Cottage companies that much easier. I am notoriously cheap, but I am OK if my wallet is a little lighter because I bought from someone like Joe Valesko or Tim Marshall. We get what we pay for. Lets hope that is not a UL market place full of companies like Golite. Please support the Cottage companies that have truely helped make UL backpacking possible. Just say no to Golite.Feb 18, 2013 at 11:02 am #1955618
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