Feb 7, 2013 at 11:38 am #1298961
Not a gift… To blatantly say I want to steal from Pay Pal is very offensive to me… I have sold things here, bought things here, and even tho it said "Gift" I still paid the fees and had it shippied normally… You realize if you sent a "Gift" payment, the buyer has NO recourse if said "Gift" doesn't arrive, not as described, etc… I don't get it… Maybe I need to lower the bar… BTW… That Post is from a MLife…
First, 10 to 1, my PM's have been understanding of the Ethics/Morality of the OP… Also 10 to 1 were the objections for "calling out" Konrad… We are not on the playground, no "calling out" was done… I used his ad as an example based on the fact he felt it necessary to print in bold letters, to "Gift" him, even tho he was selling "goods or services"… My bad… But still… OP…Feb 7, 2013 at 12:08 pm #1951811
Though the point is valid and probably warrants discussion, Gear Swap isn't the place for it. I'd suggest moving the thread to Chaff, Gear Talk, or Philosophy.Feb 7, 2013 at 12:27 pm #1951823
@onthecouchagainLocale: Sunny SoCal
Konrad is a stand up guy in every regard. If you don't like the terms, look elsewhere- end of story. Putting him on blast mode is not cool; better handled before you accepted the auction terms.
CouchFeb 7, 2013 at 12:38 pm #1951826
@hknewmanLocale: Western US
Not sure what the problem is. Looks like Konrad is only trying to keep the price down for prospective buyers, .. not like he will leave the country with $200 or so bucks. There's probably a way to track the actual shipment and delivery of the snowshoes.
Add Thus, I don't see a problem if keeping it BPL.Feb 7, 2013 at 12:38 pm #1951827
Yeah, you should lower the bar, or at least have had the decency to PM me.
The reason why I ask people to give me a fee-less payment, is so I can pass on the savings to my buyers. I could have just as easily jacked up the price by $10 and never mentioned a fee-less payment.
Also, note that I've listed the friends and family option…to many here, I am indeed a friend. Yes, it's a bit of an interpretation, but just like you, I too am allowed my opinion.
In re your last part, "You realize if you sent a "Gift" payment, the buyer has NO recourse if said "Gift" doesn't arrive, not as described, etc…"
If you've been here long enough, you'd know that's not really an issue with handling transactions with me…just saying.Feb 7, 2013 at 12:39 pm #1951828
Read through the Paypal T&C's .. if you pay for goods using fee-free methods (i.e. "gift") then you lose all buy protection in the event a deal goes sour. 3% is such a nominal amount that I simply include it in my asking price when selling, and don't hesitate to add it when I'm buying – it's worth the peace of mind.
remember.. $3 for every $100 worth of goods.Feb 7, 2013 at 12:45 pm #1951830
Certain members, like Konrad, have gained some respect around the forum and are trustworthy (in my opinion). He doesn't deserve to be called out. He recently sent me a $70 payment, as gift, for some thru-hiker down. He basically paid for my word, which quite a few people do around here. If you don't keep your word, people will find out and you will be exiled from purchasing/selling. However, I assume he is not saying that you HAVE to pay this way. He is basically stating that he doesn't want incur fees on this transaction and that YOU have to pay the fees (goods transaction) or use the personal/gift option.
Paypal charges 3% on every goods purchase to the seller, not the buyer. So all you have to do is calculate the total price and multiply it by .03, in this case being almost $5 on a $165 item.
I sell things from time to time and wish people would understand that the SELLER, not the buyer, takes a considerable hit in paypal fees. I generally pay as gift on small ticket items and pay the 3% extra in fees on higher ticket items. Around here, there aren't rules against paying with the gift option, but over at Hammockforums.net they have explicit rules against gift payment.
In the future, if you're skeptical of buying from someone, I suggest doing some research about their activity in the forum before putting someone on blast.Feb 7, 2013 at 12:47 pm #1951831
This topic has been beaten to death on the forums before. But I have to ask, to all you guys that proclaim about the loss of buyer protection if you use a personal option…. HAVE YOU EVER ACTUALLY GONE THROUGH A PAYPAL DISPUTE?
I have, and I can tell you paypal buyer protection is a hoax. This is what happens…you get ripped off…you wait the requisite amount of days before you can open a dispute against the seller, you eventually win your dispute case, paypal attempts to disgorge your misappropriated funds, BUT WAIT! the seller already cashed out all your money, transferred it to his bank account and you are left with no recourse. Paypal doesn't have the authority to garnish a seller's bank account, wages, etc, and it's up to them whether they want to refund you based on their own accounts. I've lost hundreds of dollars on ebay being ripped off this way.
And yes, on high ticket items, I do provide USPS tracking as proof of shipment (which is all paypal generally requires of me, as a seller, to win a dispute about whether items were ever shipped.)
These are the current paypal fees 3.4% on the total sale amount plus a fixed fee of $0.50 per transaction. I can easily jack up the price for you accordingly if you desire the false sense of security of "buyer protection"
Enjoy!Feb 7, 2013 at 1:14 pm #1951838
@simply_lightLocale: Midwest, US
While I cannot speak to non-ebay related paypal disputes (as I have not had to file any), every time I have filed a claim against a bad ebay seller, I've won the case and gotten my funds back.
As far as paying the fees, if a seller does not specifically mention sending it one way or another, I would assume they are willing to pay the fees if the buyer sends the money standard. If they say they want the money sent as a gift, I will still pay the fees if I am worried about the value of the item. (Never had a problem yet, so again I cannot vouch for paypal's handling a non-ebay dispute.)
If it is a PIF, I send it gift.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm #1951841
@bignlittleLocale: Southeastern Indiana
The solution to this is really pretty simple. Just say in your for sale thread that the buyer can subtract 3 percent from the price is they wish to pay as gift.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:34 pm #1951845
@stapleboxLocale: New England
I've bought a bunch of stuff from this forum from many different people. Nearly every seller here asks for the gift option.
Every single transaction has been a no-fee paypal gift payment and every single transaction has been flawless. This site has the most dependable "swap" section I have ever used.
And I don't think it is cheating paypal. The paypal fee buys their backup/support for a bad transaction. No fee = no paypal support. The rules are theirs.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:36 pm #1951846
One of the main reasons folk on Bpl use Personal Payments is to get around the paypal handling fee, if a credit card is involved someone needs to eat the fees (whether buyer or seller) if the cash comes from a bank account or existing PayPal balance (which most folks on Bpl use).
All my adverts for selling kit mention I prefer paypal personal payments, if someone contacts me saying they don't want to go down that route we would work something out.
I have been stung twice on eBay in the last 10 years but never on Bpl, also I send all items with delivery confirmation and insurance if its a high value item.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:38 pm #1951848
If you have a problem with it, by all means pay the fees yourself, just see that the seller gets the intended amt.
pretty darn simple.
I dont think theres a lot of scammers on BPL.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:39 pm #1951849
Oh, and if I don't know the buyer/seller I look at their BPL history.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:41 pm #1951851
I only waive the paypal fee if the buyer has a sister in my age range who likes old, fat guys with no hair and lives within driving distance of me, or if they'll send me a prepaid gift card for a 900-number of my choice, or a Spiderman comic book, or sometimes dark chocolate. Can't get the twinkies anymore, that sucks.
Otherwise they pay the fee. Has worked for me so far. Of course, I should have explicitly stated that the 900-number gift card was for more than 2 minutes, but hey, live and learn.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:50 pm #1951856
@onthecouchagainLocale: Sunny SoCal
O'h, will not ship to MidAtantic and buyer pays PayPal, gas, emotional fees from Twinkie separtion anxiety..
sorry DouglasFeb 7, 2013 at 1:50 pm #1951857
Think of the amount of cash Paypal earns from the Transaction balances that sit in folks accounts.
I really hate PayPal as the 2 times I have moved country in the last 5 years (from Ireland to Belgium to the Us) the feckers have made me open a new account.Feb 7, 2013 at 1:53 pm #1951859
You're a cruel man, Mr. Satterberg…..Feb 7, 2013 at 2:06 pm #1951863
Konrad, FTW!Feb 7, 2013 at 2:52 pm #1951878
You were luckier than me, or your seller still had money in his account. Here's what I got last time I filed a complaint when my ebay item did not show up.
This is from a paypal email (with some of my emphasis added):
"Transaction Amount: -$117.00 USD
Case Number: PP-051-376-983
Seller's Name: (removed)
Seller's Email: (removed)
We have determined that the seller is at fault in this matter but regret to
inform you that we were unable to recover any funds from the seller's
account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery of funds
associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.
If this transaction took place on eBay, we encourage you to contact eBay.
If the transaction was for an amount greater than $25.00 USD, you may
qualify for partial reimbursement under eBay's Standard Purchase Protection
Program. If this transaction took place on another auction site, we
encourage you to contact that site to see if they offer insurance or
Thank you for your cooperation and we apologize for any inconvenience this
situation may have caused. Please know that we will make our best effort to
recover the funds in question if they become available in the seller's
account in the future. Please also be assured that we will take appropriate
action against the seller. Such action may include issuing a warning, a
temporary restriction, or terminating the account."
Seriously Paypal? you're gonna issue them a warning? WOW, good on you.Feb 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm #1951884
@idahobackpackerLocale: Northwest U.S.
I don't feel the least bit of remorse using the gift option here. I sell quite a bit on eBay as well, and they take almost 10%, and PayPal gets its 4% for the transaction as well. PayPal is owned by eBay, so they get you coming and going.
I too have purchased and sold many items here so far on the forum (with way more purchasing lol) and so far have had excellent experiences. The members here do what any good seller would do, they describe the items accurately, communicate with the buyer, provide a tracking number, and follow up after the item is delivered.
Last but not least, in my experience, 99% of the people that backpack, hike, etc have a very high level of ethics and morality, more so than the average joe. I don't believe that is the issue here with using the gift option.Feb 7, 2013 at 3:04 pm #1951886
…Feb 7, 2013 at 3:04 pm #1951887
Stealing… Always makes ur point worthless…Feb 7, 2013 at 3:16 pm #1951896
……………Feb 7, 2013 at 3:28 pm #1951900
@jenmitolLocale: In my dreams....
Did I miss something?? I've bought from Konrad (my brother loves the shirt, by the way…), I've bought from a ton of people here. I need to sell soooo much stuff, but that's another conversation.
What is wrong with PayPal gift?? Why does Paypal make it so easy to use if it's "stealing" from them? I can just as easily use my bank to pay someone electronically without a fee…what's the big deal??
If I don't like the terms of an item, I can ask the seller to consider something else, or I move on. Goodness gracious.
So much anger here…
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