Apr 11, 2007 at 1:12 pm #1222770
Hey, i havent posted in the forums for quite some time, but i logged on again a few days ago so i thought i would post my most updated gearlist for typical 3 season fastpacking for extreme lows of 35 and highs above 90, 25-35 miles per day, 3-5 days. For sorter trips i take less, for longer, i take a little more
the only peice of gear on this list i have not used it the ULA Amp pack, but ive purchased it and it seems to be exactly what im looking for. utill i get it, and for longer expeditions, i will still use my old golite Jam pack
Clothing worn and items carried
05.20 Salomon Raid zip tec shirt
03.30 Asics running shorts
28.40 Salomon XA pro 3D shoes
01.80 Defeet aireator socks
01.60 Headsweats super visor
02.20 Highgear altimiter watch
14.00 Life-link guide ultralight trekking poles
06.80 The North Face DIAD jacket
02.60 Golite wisp windshirt
02.40 Montbell UL wind pants
01.80 Defeet aireator socks (extra pair)
00.90 The north face powerstretch ascent beenie
01.60 Black Diamond powerstretch gloves
Sleeping and Shelter
04.20 Bozeman Mountain Works Stealth 0 NANO tarp
05.40 Bozeman Mountain Works Vapr NANO bivy
01.90 Backpakinglight Hi vis Ti stakes (8)
00.30 Backpackinglight Aircore2 guylines
18.00 Golite featherlite sleeping bag
03.60 Gossamer gear nightlight sleeping pad
09.70 ULA Amp ack
00.10 Homemade stake bag
00.20 1x Bozeman Mountain Works NANO stuff sack sm.
00.90 3x Bozeman Mountain Works NANO stuff sack med.
00.20 alosak 4"x7"
01.30 Backpackinglight pack liner
Cooking and hydration
00.20 mini zen stove
00.20 oven liner windscreen
00.70 platypus lil nipper
02.60 Snowpeak 600 mug
00.30 Snowpeak Ti spoon (modified)
00.20 32 count matchbook
01.80 2x platypus 1L water bottles
01.00 40' dyneema cord for bearbagging
01.00 First aid kit (minor wound care and meds)
01.00 Repair (3ft. duct tape and superglue)
01.50 Toiletries (finger brush, Dr. bronners, sportslick, TP)
00.30 Bozeman mountain works headnet
00.50 Small bottle of DEET
01.30 Lanyard (whistle, photon light, mini swiss knife on spectra cord)
01.00 Dermatone in balm jar
02.50 Petzl tikka plus headlamp
Total weight worn or carried: 3.4lbs
Total weight in pack 4.9lbs
Total skin out weight 8.3lbs
any comments, recomendations, or questions are welcomeApr 11, 2007 at 1:27 pm #1385590
@kdesignLocale: Mythical State of Jefferson
For the load you propose to carry, you could use a much lighter pack—a G6 or an MLD Prophet. Or is it that you prefer a more rugged pack? The Amp's materials set is more robust and would fare better off the trail, to be sure.
Also, you seem a little light in the clothing dept. No baselayers or insulated vest or jacket?Apr 11, 2007 at 1:56 pm #1385594
Looks like a solid, very lightweight list. I especially like the pairing of the nano shelter pieces with the diad jacket.
I agree with the response above: why not carry a lightweight insulation vest/jacket? IMO, a synthetic vest would fit into the list quite nicely. Even just a lightweight fleece sweater (~7-8 oz) is a nice option.
Finally, if you want to go barebones weight, then why not ditch the wind shirt since you already have a waterproof jacket (especially if using an older model of the Wisp)?
Have fun!Apr 11, 2007 at 2:17 pm #1385597
@aroth87Locale: Missouri Ozarks
Looks like a great list. Only suggestions I have are for the pack, check out the Zpacks Z1, there are a couple of reviews here on it. Its about the same volume as the Amp, but weighs 5.2 oz. Its mostly silnylon with heavier nylon in higher wear areas. It might be a little more durable than the G6 or other spinnaker packs if that is your concern. The other comment is ditch the windshirt. The Diad seems like a more breathable jacket than most so you could probably make due with just it. I'd probably add some kind of base layer too. 30* can feel pretty chilly.
AdamApr 11, 2007 at 2:42 pm #1385599
@djohnsonLocale: Washington State
Great SUL gear list Ryan. I totally agree that without a base layer, you'll be limited when temps get low and you'll be stuck in your bag when lounging at camp. Even when I'm laying down mega days where I'm either hiking or sleeping, the jacket is sure nice when setting or breaking camp and gives me a layering option in the bag.
Your ULA pack is cool, no doubt. For loads this weight I love my MLD Revelation Cuben.
The most chunky item I see though, is your poles. Cuben fiber and 7oz aluminum poles are a clash to your SUL fashion. You could go for some Gossamer Gear Lightreks and cut nearly 9oz from your hands. This is a weight difference that you'll really notice.
With a pair of Golite or Inov8 shoes, you could also drop 6-10 oz from your feet. Another spot where you really notice the ounces.
But these are nitpicks (except for the poles- your Life Links are behemoths!)…great gear list!
BTW- how did you modify your spoon? And your Montbell wind pants- great choice- those pants are slick!Apr 11, 2007 at 3:01 pm #1385600
@crazypeteLocale: Above the Divided Line
What happened to the 3.5 lb pack you used to sport??Apr 11, 2007 at 3:36 pm #1385606
@ericnobleLocale: Colorado Rockies
Ryan, what are your feelings on solid fuel tabs (Esbit)? You could loose the Lil Nipper. The Heineken beer mug would be lighter then the SnowPeak 600 but is a compromise not everyone likes. 4 stuff sacks!…you haven't become a neat nick have you :). It says something when one of your luxury items is a stuff sack. If Doug was nit picking I don't know what you call this. What thickness is your GG NightLite?Apr 11, 2007 at 6:57 pm #1385638
Thanks for all the feedback, ill try and cover all the questions, tell me if i miss anything.
as far as the pack goes, I definitly like the durability of silnylon and dyneema over that in my GG G6, i found when using a spinnaker pack, i am almost constantly obsessing over the safety of my pack, for one thing, this made me enjoy the experience less. also, I do ALOT of off trail hiking, a spinnaker pack is not really suitable for this
In addition to the durability, I really dont like packs without a hipbelt and water bottle pockets. when scrambling, running, and stream crossing, the pack is not stable, and all the weight is on the shoulders, this is not bad for weekend trips, but with food for multiday treks without resupply and 2liters of water, my pack goes above the 20lb comfort level, and when I am just doing an overnighter or a weekend trip, this is when i really like to push the mileage and I need the hipbelt for stability so the pack dosent bounce up and down uncomfortably while moving fast.
my choices for packs are a salomon raid revo 20 SLAB pack for short trips, Golite Jam for up to 10 day treks, and a ula Amp for those trips in the middle.
I guess it wasent clear, but my salomon shirt listed is the long sleeve, I wear a short sleeve version in the summer.
I have used this system down to 30 uncomfortably, 35 is really the limit for comfort, but with the long shirt, wind shirt, and rain jacket, i have enough to keep me warm. if i expect anything below 35 i add a coccoon pullover, but i sleep fine if the weather dips below the expected temps.
I never leave the windshirt at home, it is a crucial part of my layering system, it gives me a few extra degrees of warmth under the rain jacket, and is significantly more breathable, If i had an eVENT jacket, i might consider dropping it, but i dont like wearing my rain jacket while hiking unless it is really raining
ahh, the trekking poles, I have not yett tried the fixed length poles, I like to be able to collapse them and stash them in my pack for those lengths of road i sometimes come upon, are there lighter collapsable options?
For my spoon, I just shaved an ounce off by cutting off some of the handle, i really did not need the length
I use esbit for colder temps, and when i am at higher altitudes, these are conditions alcohol dose not burn well.
but when possible, i like alcohol because it burns much hotter, boils faster, and much cleaner
with the cuben stuff sacks, all 4 are the weight of a single silnylon sack, 1.1oz is worth the organization, making life more simple at camp.Apr 11, 2007 at 7:06 pm #1385640
I have treid and tested many different styles and philosiphies of backpacking and have settled on a slightly more "athletic" approach, similar to the technique of Andrew Skurka
THis is why i have made some of the choices i have, using some equiptment designed for adventure racing, wearing running shorts, using seperate rain gear instead of a poncho, having a hipbelt, collapsable trekking poles, a HEADLAMP ect. ect.
I have tried all other options, they all have merit, but its just not my style, i remember sacrificing so much to save just a few ounces, ( complex rainger/shelter, fragile packs and cooking pots ect.) I admit they are lighter, but I dont like having to think too much about my gear, I am much more concerned with enjoying the experience, and covering as many miles as possible, than saving a pound.
plus… I am still under 5 lbs :)Apr 11, 2007 at 8:13 pm #1385656
@oystersLocale: South Australia
I must agree with Ryan here. Sometimes it really isnt worth the losses to durability, functionality and ease of use to go with some ultralight gear, when your end goal is performance. If you are slowing down because you dont want to damage your poncho or SUL pack, your shoes dont quite work for you (no point in getting a pair of neutral SUL shoes if you are an overpronator), you cant see properly in the dark, or your pack inefficiently places weight on your shoulders, then it is not worth it. For the extra maybe pound or two, you are better off having the comfort and piece of mind.
I applaud you Ryan for actually increasing your pack weight to chase your goals. I am glad someone else besides myself likes the idea of a bit of durability and functionality in some areas. And also spends most of his time off-trail!
I am impressed with the sub 5lb still. I will take some notes…Apr 12, 2007 at 6:18 am #1385691
@djohnsonLocale: Washington State
Sounds good Ryan- well thought out. I agree that there is a balancing point on the gear/weight/style thing and it sounds like you've found yours.
Komperdell C3 poles are quite a bit lighter than your Life Link poles, but not as durable. The new Adjustable Goat Poles are sure interesting! http://www.titaniumgoat.com/poles.html
DougApr 12, 2007 at 7:50 am #1385698
@jkrew81Locale: White Mtns
I agree that durability is high on my priority list as well. When I buy something for the outdoors, I don't want to be bothered with babying it too much. Obviously for certain items that rarely leave the pack there is a give and take, but I feel a pack should be as durable as the person wearing it. Versatility is also an important function of every piece I purchase. While not possible for all kinds of gear, I find it an interesting challenge to find gear that has four season functionality.
I agree that the "athletic" setup of gear is very comfortable for long days over a variety of trail and weather conditions. Looking at unsponsored Ultra Trail runners and Adventure Racers really gives a good view at what works and what is just marketing.Apr 12, 2007 at 8:19 am #1385700
That is an impressive list, with a shockingly light FSO weight. I pasted it next to mine to see why I'm still at more than 10 lbs 3 season base weight. I did find several items I seem to consider mandatory that you do without. More credit to you.. Can you comment on the list below? Maybe I'll get the courage to leave these items at home? ;)
Here goes..(following your grouping)
Other clothing group:
1. Most importantly, insulation layers for torso, legs, head, and hands. I carry at least a montbell thermawrap jacket and pants, watch cap and glove liners.
2. Gaiters to keep dirt and stones out of my low-top trail runners.
3. Rain shell pants. I also use UL wind pants for light sprinkles, but for true storms and heavy rain, I carry goretex pants. the MBs eventually wet through IME.
Sleeping and Shelter group
1. Something to use as a pillow?
2. A ground sheet to protect bivy sack, or in my case, heavy free-standing tent!
1. A true dry sack to protect your down bag. By the way, I think your bag is rated to 40F, does your bivy give you another 10 degrees?
Cooking and hydration group
1. A reflectix cozy in which to put your meal as it re-hydrates.
2. Trash bags; LNT
Other essentials group
1. Navigation gear; navigation quality compass, map, waterproof map case, maybe a gps for white-out/fog conditions
2. A folding bowl for bird-bathing, sponge and soap
3. Small packtowel
4. Pen and paper
5. Cellphone for medical emergencies when reception is possible
And lastly, forgive the question, but in the clothing worn group, what about underwear?
Your list has really forced me to consider what I can get by with in warmer weather. Thanks again.
BTW, you can see my back-breakingly heavy winter gear list at my profile..Apr 12, 2007 at 10:26 am #1385722
Good points to bring up Brett. No navigation gear for offtrail hiking is a get-lost-wish.
The issue of going heavier with a few pieces of equipment (for durability/style), feeling the need to still show a sub 5 base pack weight (?peer pressure), and leaving out some items that may/may not be essentials to achieve that base pack weight…is my concern. Be careful out there Ryan F.Apr 12, 2007 at 10:47 am #1385727
"ahh, the trekking poles, I have not yett tried the fixed length poles, I like to be able to collapse them and stash them in my pack for those lengths of road i sometimes come upon, are there lighter collapsable options?"
Ryan, there is a great solution concerning ligther collapsable poles, but I can't post that here – sorry! Couldn't send you a PM, but if you send me one and include your e-mail address I'll help you.Apr 12, 2007 at 11:52 am #1385749
Thanks doug, ill check out the Komperdell poles and mabey try them out.
as far as navigation, my watch has both compass and altimiter functions, that when used in conjunction with a good map, is usually enough. When its not, I have a garmin foretrex wrist mounted GPS taht i can record a few waypoints onto to get me where im going.Apr 12, 2007 at 12:13 pm #1385753
For the clothing, most people do take more, i even suprise my self at the temperatures i am able to sleep at comfortably, but for safety, if I expect temperatures below 35, i add a BMW cocoon jacket, and a baselayer pant, as well as using a balaclava instead of a hat.
It simply boils down to this: take the clothes you need to sleep comfortably, for some people, this is less.
Also, a really important factor in your warmth is your diet. I eat as many calories as i can during the day, and at least 900 before i go to bed. The more you eat, the colder you will be able to sleep warm.
For a pillow, i use one of my stuff sacks stuffed with whatever i have that is soft (sometimes this is leaves). this adds no extra weight to my pack.
I have never damaged any of my bivys, I take the extra time it takes to find a good place to set up, avoiding any rocks, twigs or pine cones that could shred the floor.
U might want to look at the sea-to-summit sil nylon dry sacks, but for me, the pack liner keeps me from worrying.
the bivy adds some warmth, but mostly because it blocks the wind and water spray. Wind can make you really cold :)
I choose dinners that dont require a cozy to cook. cous cous, ramen, dehydrated meals ect.
I divide my meals by day in plastic bags for organization, i use these for trash bags
im guessing you have never worn running shorts :)
most have a built in liner, so underwear is unneccesaryApr 12, 2007 at 12:55 pm #1385761
@pivvayLocale: Rocky Mountains
Sleeping bags work really good for cozy's too :)
Ryan I like your list a lot. I would switch a few things around. Lighter pad, different pack (golite ion), ditch the windshirt, use esbit and bring an insulated vest at least but that's just me personally. Gotta go with what works for you. If it's not going above ~75 degrees I use a SW hoodie too.Apr 12, 2007 at 3:18 pm #1385776
I like your list Ryan; its really dialed-in. Looks like you have most everything covered. I would take a cell if you're in areas that it will prove useful. Below 45 degrees I couldn't get by without at least a micropuff vest or the like, but as long as you know you're safe at those temps more power to you. I always try to give myself a safety margin of 10 degrees F in both clothing and sleep systems. You're never in trouble until you are, you know?
And, when you get those Salomon XA S-Lab's, please post your findings! I'm a big XA Pro 3D fan as well and I'm curious about the S Lab's…not sure why, though, as I've never used gaiters unless there's snow on the ground. Its probably just the ooh-ah factor that piques my interest.Apr 12, 2007 at 4:07 pm #1385785
@ericnobleLocale: Colorado Rockies
Ryan, I'm curious about the durability of your gear made with Nano (Cuben) fabric. I'm considering a Cuben fiber poncho/tarp and some Nano stuff sacks. Have you had any issues with the Nano fabric? I have some samples of Cuben fiber and it's tear strength is amazing but is resistance to punctures is a concern to me. It sounds like you are careful with the bottom of your bivy but not overly concerned and have no problems with the stuff sacks. Is this accurate? Your advice is particularly welcome as you have changed from some of the lighter things you once carried to some more durable choices.Apr 12, 2007 at 7:48 pm #1385811
Ryan, Thanks, all great answers, and I learned a lot. Im thinking running shorts would be nice in camp in warm weather, and preferrable to my zip off pants for swimming. I'm going to switch.
Your system is really dialed in; very impressive.Apr 13, 2007 at 12:15 am #1385839
@oystersLocale: South Australia
I too am very impressed. I figured to get pack weight down to SUL and still have a durable WPB jacket, warm sleeping bag etc, I would have to forget having hot meals just to save weight. You've given my tastebuds hope…Apr 13, 2007 at 6:15 am #1385852
Ryan, Nicely done. You've given me some ideas. I do most of my hiking in the Rockies and Sierras. Usually late August or early September. For my legs, I prefer Patagonia Cool Weather Tights treated with a ReviveX wash-in. Under the tights, I wear a pair of running shorts(sage burners or long haul runners) with the liner removed. I remove the tights when the temps are warm. The CWT are light, about 7.4oz., durable, water resistant, and the large fit baggy on my skinny legs. Just a thought.
PaulApr 13, 2007 at 4:49 pm #1385914
I have not used the Cuben in the bivy for very long, so i dont have any information about long term durability, but luckily, everytime i have, i have been able to find a good place to set up camp so i dont need to worry about this.
For longer trips where i sometimes get a little careless with camp set up i would add a gossamer gear polycro groundsheet (1.3oz) but i did this with all my silnylon bivies as well.
at lower temps i also wear a pair of tights or a light softshell pant over my shorts. my choice is a salomon XA raid tight (6.3oz) but i would like to try out some CW-X tights. I guess ill find out the weight when i buy them :)Apr 13, 2007 at 4:54 pm #1385916
Thanks so much for all the comments guys
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