Apr 10, 2007 at 6:23 pm #1222758
Checking out the new Paradox pant and was wondering if anyone has tried the new trinity fabric offerings from GoLite?
I am looking for a good all around hiking pant that is water resistant to combine with a poncho tarp. Will the Trinity Fabric be cool enough to use in summer months? Can these truly be all purpose hiking pants that are water resistant?Apr 11, 2007 at 7:43 pm #1385646
@geekguyandyLocale: New York State
I recently bought a GoLite Gamut jacket which is their cheapest model with Trinity fabric. I'm extremely pleased with it. It's soft, a bit quieter than most fabrics, a tiny bit strechy, and so far seems to be sufficiently waterproof (although it is covered in DWR) and seems to breath well. I have a friend with a Patagonia jacket that appears to be exactly the same feel of fabric, so I don't think this is specifically a GoLite fabric.Apr 12, 2007 at 8:03 am #1385699
Trinity is an exclusive fabric to GoLite and is not water resistant, it is waterproof. That is why it is so versatile. The Paradigm full zip pants are the ideal all weather waterproof pant.Apr 12, 2007 at 8:28 am #1385701
@mlarsonLocale: Southeast USA
Sounds like PR-speak. What makes it ideal? I don't think I'd want to use any waterproof pant as an all-weather item. But compared to the ID eVent pants, the price is great.
Philip, I'm not sure where you spend your summer months, but down here in the Southeast, you're better off in shorts. Maybe something like the GoLite Whim pants would be a better option if you just need occasional water resistance? Or do you need something with 24-hour durability as well? What kind of environs are you facing?
-MarkApr 12, 2007 at 11:08 am #1385733
Their specifications list the breathability level as: 10,000g/m2/24 hours. They don't list the test method which would make it very easy to accurately compare it to the breathability of other alternatives.
Based on the technology they used (laminated stretch polyurethane) it is most similar to the technology used in the Toray Dermizax three layer material. The Toray material tests 8,000g/m2/24 using the JIS L1099 B-1 test and in all probability this is the test that yielded the GoLite Trinity 10,000g/m2/24 hours result.
By contrast to Trinity's JIS L1099 B-1 rating of 10,000g/m2/24 other breathability results using the same tests are: eVENT, laminated to nylon, yields 27,826g/m2/24 hours; Gore-Tex XCR yields 21,194g/m2/24 hours; and Marmot PreCip yields the same at 10,000g/m2/24 hours.Apr 12, 2007 at 8:19 pm #1385819
Thanks guys. I live in North Texas and hike all over Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma in Winter/Spring/Fall months. Summer is the big trips and usually involve Northern New Mexico and Colorado. This year the big trip will be the Bitterroot Divide out of Hamilton Montana and over the Idaho Border. Just looking for something to combine with a poncho tarp. Went tarp last year and think I will dump the rain gear and go poncho/tarp this year. Buddy of mine was a Marine in Viet Namn is 60 and hikes regularly. Now his survival skills are spectacular – but he hikes with a 1500 cubic inch assault pack with some attachements and straps, a bed roll and a tarp. Anyway he has encouraged me and inspired me to go poncho tarp – just need some water resistant pants to supplement the poncho. But maybe I could just say to heck with it and utilize the poncho w/ convertible pants and if it rains – it rains. Upper body will be dry under the tarp.Apr 12, 2007 at 8:24 pm #1385820
Thanks Mark – I hit Texas, Arkansas and Oklahoma – with big summer trips to Northern New Mexico, Colorado, and this year Montana and Idaho. Really just looking for something to supplement a poncho tarp if it gets really wet while I am in Montana and Idaho.
Might just stick to the poncho/tarp and regular Nylon Convertible pants. Last year in Colorado I just went with an older heavy long parka and no pants and it worked out just fine.Apr 12, 2007 at 9:51 pm #1385830
Thanks again for the great stats on the materials. Is there a web site that has this information as well? That would be most helpful (instead of linking to various forum threads).Apr 12, 2007 at 10:17 pm #1385831
Ross-There is no Web site that has this information that I am aware of.Apr 13, 2007 at 5:18 pm #1385922
That's a shame. I do have somewhat of an answer to my question in that this:
gives some nice data on breathability. However, it doesn't say much about how waterproof the material is. It is still a fascinating read though (with a lot of useful information).
What I would really like is a nice chart that listed breathability (rough number) and permeability (if that is the right term for being waterproof) of various products. I would also like a similar chart for comparing synthetic and down insulation (Clo/Kg perhaps). There would still be plenty of footnotes about durability, loss of loft over time, special handling, etc., but I think this would be very useful.Apr 14, 2007 at 8:25 am #1385956
@geekguyandyLocale: New York State
Richard, just curious, where did those numbers come from? Obviously 10,000 is not a measured number but rounded off.Apr 14, 2007 at 8:39 am #1385957
I also was curious as to how Golite arrived at 10,000g/m²/24 hours. I emailed about what test they used and got this response: "I forwarded your question to our Design and Development team and said they tested the Trinity fabric using the Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate test. MVTR testing is done by measuring the ability of vapor to pass through the membrane and fabric to the outside surface at differing humidity levels. The breathability test, also called the "sweating hot plate," a fabric sample is placed over a warm testing device that emits water through small pores. The speed at which moisture vapor moves through the fabric determines its breathability. Hope this information helps and any more questions, please feel free to ask. THANKS!" Not as detailed of info as I'd like, but there it is for what it's worth.Apr 14, 2007 at 9:15 am #1385960
@bugbombLocale: South Texas
If you guys want to read more about the methods used to test breathability, check out Alan Dixon's article mentioned above.Apr 14, 2007 at 1:59 pm #1385975
i wore the paradox pants on a backpacking trip this week- did about 4 miles mostly ascending up a mountain in constant drizzle with intermittant rain and temps in the upper 30s wearing them in the Shenandoah natl forest. When i first put them on I was not sure i would like them-but after a hundred yards i liked the way they felt. They were comfortable and I did not feel like I was wearing a sauna suit. I stayed dry thru out the hike & wore them setting up camp and cooking dinner as the rain became steady. Will definetly carry them with me in the future.Apr 14, 2007 at 2:28 pm #1385978
Andy – A Trinity breathability spec URL is http://www.outdoorwarehouse.co.uk/index.cfm?action=article.read&articleId=745F6C24-CB69-74E6-EC5A0FFFC90C4D72
BPL has a bug in their forum software which prevents creating hot links of this length.Apr 16, 2007 at 6:37 am #1386136
Check out http://www.torayentrant.com and click on the "specifications" tab.
eVent, Epic and gore also have similar product layouts.
If you ever really really want to know if something is "proprietary", call Toray and request header cards. ;)Apr 16, 2007 at 9:35 am #1386153
@mckittreLocale: Seldovia, Alaska
The Toray Dermizax fabric is pretty nice stuff. Sheri of Alpacka Raft is developing a hiking/packrafting drysuit with it. I used a beta version this winter, and am very excited to try it on my upcoming expedition. Particularly while I'm packrafting and walking through the Southeast Alaska rainforest and Gulf of Alaska storms in the middle of autumn!
I'm not sure if the GoLite is the same stuff. But from what Sheri's found, the stretchiness of the Dermizax makes it much less likely to tear than Goretex and other waterproof breathables, and it's more comfortable. And I'll know a lot more in a few months…
Ground Truth TrekkingApr 16, 2007 at 11:21 am #1386164
Erin – In your Beta test, how many miles of bushwhacking were you able to go before the DWR was worm off the areas the brush rubs against?
My experiences in SE Alaska were between 30 and 60 miles. After that the water would no longer bead up, and consequently the breathability dropped dramatically.Apr 16, 2007 at 12:52 pm #1386179
@mckittreLocale: Seldovia, Alaska
Hmmm… Don't quite have a good answer yet – I haven't had one for long enough (in thick enough brush, anyway). According to Sheri and various folks she's lent them out to (for tough environments like wilderness races in Alaska), they remain comfortable and waterproof after a lot of abuse. Don't know exactly about how the breathability holds up – I'll ask.
And I'll know myself after not too long in the B.C. forests…
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