COCOON PREPURCHASE?

[Gregory Doggett]

Just checked them out on the website.
I'm interested in a UL 60 Quilt/long and the original Cocoon pullover in L or XL.
Ryan, which Quilt, when paired with a BMW Vapr Bivy, would you reccomend to a warm sleeper on a JMT Thru-Flyfish-Hike?
I'll be using a Gatewood Cape for shelter.
Thanks!
Greg

[David Stenberg]

Greg,
Nice set-up. I am interested in something very similar for my JMT trip. I hope to see you out there.

[Ryan Jordan]

Mark: I think that weight is for a R, with a long around 15-16 oz.

The weight gain is from 1.3x the insulation (the "60" is actually "68" g/m2) and the heavier shell fabric. The warmth difference is more significant that 1.3x (loft alone), because of the lower air permeability of the shell fabric.

Yes, the PRO 90 Quilt is designed for:

a. An overbag over a down quilt or the UL60 or UL180 quilts when external moisture is an issue.

b. Alone in wet and "warmer" conditions.

As for May-Sept in the wet lowlands, it's going to depend on what you wear in the quilt and how you sleep, etc etc etc. There is so much involved in temperature ratings, I'm not even going to go there anymore. I'm hesitant even to discuss loft, because for synthetics, they are warmer for a given loft than down, due to less convection and better radiation loss resistance. What I'd rather do, and hopefully we'll have that data within the next eight months as we wrap up our testing, is publishing copper mannequin heat loss data, comparing a synthetic fill quilt to a down fill quilt. Preliminary results suggest that when dry, the insulation on a warmth:weight ratio suggests that down has an edge. Synthetics have the edge on warmth:loft ratio. Add only slight bits of moisture (not even enough to reduce the loft of synthetic, but enough to reduce loft of down), and it's almost no contest: synthetics prevail.

A few years ago Glen Van Peski, Alan Dixon, and I got caught in the Wind Rivers in a snowstorm and spent 16 hours in wet, down 1-1.25 lb 800-fill down quilts. The temps went down to about 15 degrees at night. We'd already slept in them 4 nights, including a wet night the night before the big storm. We made it thru the night ok, but it was not terribly comfortable. That's not a testament to down, or an argument pro-synthetic, just that your body has an incredible capacity to adapt to cold conditions upon exposure, and your comfort in a bag should not be evaluated in your backyard. So, if you're gig is one-night camping trips, your best bet is to take more insulation than you think you'll need: going from warm bed to cold ground is sort of … an abrupt change for your body!

I sleep sorta cool, so the prospect of taking any thin quilt quilt to freezing Ontario rain in May doesn't sound appealing to me!

BUT having said that,

I've been pretty comfortable with the thin 60/90 quilts and the Cocoon Pants and Hooded P/O into the 30s on a long distance walk when my body was accustomed to the cold already for several days.

[Ryan Jordan]

Greg: I've had temps down to 22-23F on the JMT in July, and other trips where the low was in the low 50s. So…If the former, the 180 – with puffy clothes! else if the latter, the thin quilts might be ok for you.

[Gregory Doggett]

Thanks Ryan,
I was planning on taking my Arc X, which I've slept in comfortably @ 20 degrees with a MicroPuff pullover and Pata. Jackalope pants, no bivy, neath the Cape.
My long Arc X weighs 19.1 oz.
Losing a half pound with an 11 oz.Quilt sure sounds nice.
Well even if I don't carry the Cocoon quilt on the JMT it'll be a better choice for SUL trips in Virginia's summers.
Have credit card, will be ready.
Greg

[Gregory Doggett]

I'll be going July 29th thru Aug. 17th.
Only averaging 13 miles per day to allow for trout fishing.
Greg

[Donald Shine]

Oh goody! I want to pre-purchase, a Cocoon hoody, pants and UL 60 quilt, heh heh heh… I'm ready. How do we go about doing this?

Tight lines,
Don Shine

[Paul Luther]

Hi Ryan, do the Cocoon quilts have adjustable webbing, like the Nunatak quilts, for pulling in the sides?
Thanks,
Paul

[Matthew L.]

Ryan,

Any information on how small the UL 60 compresses down in comparison to a light down bag like a WM Highlite? I have never used a quilt and was not sure how a synthetic quilt would compare in compressibility. Thanks so much!

[Ryan Jordan]

Paul: no, not adjustable webbing. We use very thin cord and toggles. It's more easily removed as needed (can be completely removed, or replaced with something else if you like.

[Sam Haraldson]

> Any information on how small the UL 60 compresses down in comparison to a light down bag like a WM Highlite?

No more than 12 oz. of Polarguard Delta should be compressed into a stuff sack sized at 500 cu. in.

[Ryan Jordan]

Matthew: The UL60 compresses down very small. But, to preserve the integrity of the synthetic insulation, don't overcompress it. In comparison, it occupies about the same volume as a Highlite, but if it were me, I would not compress the quilt into the stock bag that comes with the Highlite. I think that bag is too small.

[D S]

Ryan,

Thanks for giving the people who support this site and its' tremendous forums the opportunity to pre-purchase the items. They are sure to be "hot" sellers and it is a nice perk to your loyal base.

"couch"

[Jim Sweeney]

Man, I just hope the announcement comes soon so I can go to bed!

[Ryan Jordan]

Hey, so…

Like…ummm…

Anyone wanna party?

[Andy Dixon]

just placed my order!!!

now the long wait for shipping…..

EDIT – I ordered the UL balaclava & pants (I already have the cocoon pullover in the same colour luckily) as well as the 180 quilt. I have ordered the regular quilt for those up to 5.10 – I'm 6 foot and didn't want the bulk of the larger size so i hope that 5.10 really means 5.10 and a bit more! (perhaps someone from BPL can advise me if the regular wll be substantially short for me?)

[David Stenberg]

MY ORDER IS PLACED!!!!!!

Cocoon Pants and Hoody!

[Nicholas Jensen]

Got my order in for a hoody and pants! I was sooooo close to pulling the trigger on the 180 quilt but stopped myself. I know, I will regret it this fall.

I thought the hoody pullover was coming in charcoal?

[David Stenberg]

Yeah, I still don't understand what color I ordered for the pants and hoody.

The order form said pants are charcoal and the hoody cobalt, but the "prepurchase" announcement said the pants are cobalt and the hoddy is charcoal.

Not quite sure which one to believe…order form or prepuchase announcement?

[Ryan Jordan]

Ahh, sorry bout the color confusion. The correct colors now appear in the product options selection boxes for each of the products:

UL Hoody, UL Pants, and UL 180 quilt all have charcoal shells. All other UL goods are cobalt blue.

PRO Pants are black. All other PRO goods are red.

All linings for all products are black.

[Christopher Chupka]

Do you think a Pro 90 quilt could get a Nunatak Arc Specialist down to 0 degrees if used as an overbag?

I understand the temp ratings are subjective but what is your opinion?

Thanks

[Ryan Jordan]

Christopher: With a puffy jacket (Rab Quantum Neutrino) and pants (Cocoon) and the rest of the stars aligned properly, I've done it. This system is sort of on the edge, though, and I did it wishing I had *just a little more* :) I think the PRO 90 adds a solid 20 degrees, however, to a sleep system. 32 might be a push for some, ok for others.

[Matthew L.]

Ryan, how low in temps. have you taken the UL180 quilt down to? I am eyeing it up but don't have experience with quilts.

[D G]

I've read the sizing charts and most sizing charts generally say I need a medium but I often go with large, depending on the manufacturer. I'm kind of in-between sizes so whether I get a med or large depends on the individual garment

For reference, I have a patagonia micropuff pullover and the med fits well, though for other garments I generally get size large (My montbell thermawrap is L)

Is the pullover hoody generous in it's sizing or more of a trim fit? I would probably just use a wool baselayer under it.

Thanks!

[Ryan Jordan]

Matthew –

The 180 is my regular 3-season mountain quilt, combined with usually, the hoody and pants. I'm pretty comfortable in this system down to freezing or so. I know someone else who's fine in it down to 20, and another (a woman) who's cold in it at 40.

I've been chilly under a tarp (no bivy) with winds in this setup at 40 degrees, and comfortable at 25 in a tent with zero wind. Shelter from wind makes a big difference for any sleep system, I suppose.

What I really like for that 10-25 degree range, as I find in the fall here in Montana, is the 180, or a light down quilt, with the Pro 90 quilt as an overbag, with the hoody and pants. That is absolutely luxurious at 15 degrees but would be an inferno for me at freezing.

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