Nov 30, 2012 at 6:17 pm #1296617
Apparently their single administrator in charge would rather ban you than allow you to debate against people who are Anti-ultralight. having a single administrator itself is wrong as any bias is uncontrollable.
repeatedly, people asking questions on hiking fast and/or light are discouraged from doing so by the members there and any retaliation against that attitude is promptly deleted and banned if you continue.
a certain member enters every topic involving lightweight backpacking and touts his preference for carrying a 70lb pack for 20 days without resupply in the snow. Apparently this is the only way he thinks backpacking should be done and will not stop until everyone has cupped his balls about it.
It is sad and pathetic that the most used site for Appalachian Trail information is so backwards in their leadership and membership that they discourage ultralight backpacking conversation.Nov 30, 2012 at 6:34 pm #1932280
The anti-ultralight virus is spreading even to some who hang out on this website to sell you books, trips and foot salves..lol ; )
VIVA ULTRALIGHT BACKPACKING!Nov 30, 2012 at 6:44 pm #1932286
Unfortunately WB isn't just against the term. the whole concept in general.
people have posted trip plans that include going faster than average and they are quickly smacked down and told they cannot possibly go that far and they should slow down with no knowledge of who they are or what they can do.
Hell Jen Pharr-Davis herself could post on there and they would say she was out of her mind and should slow down and smell the roses.
people are constantly told that if they have baseweights under 15-20lb they are unprepared, uncomfortable and unsafe. it is amazing how scared the main member group is and it is supported and coddled by the administrator.Nov 30, 2012 at 7:38 pm #1932299
Not until my IP was banned from the site that the Owner Rick Towle responded to my PM's that i've been sending for weeks to deal with his admin who's personal feelings against my posts causes him to delete my stuff.Nov 30, 2012 at 8:28 pm #1932303
@porkpie73Locale: High Sierra
It's always been my experience that Whiteblaze is best for armchair arguing. Sorry to hear about your frustrations.Nov 30, 2012 at 9:37 pm #1932310
"a certain member enters every topic involving lightweight backpacking and touts his preference for carrying a 70lb pack for 20 days'
yes,well,that is just typical…
Don't give up, it is a lot better than it was a few years ago.
Up to a couple of years ago there was a resident gang that attacked everyone that tried to suggest somewhat lighter stuff.
In fact about every question about a shelter (yes including for couples) had the obligatory "get a hammock" reply.
However if you read enough threads now, you will find that many just ignore the remaining sado-masochists and just use LW stuff anyway..
BTW, about 2, maybe 3 years ago I posted a thread called "rant" pretty much highlighting your point (purposely in the General Gear Talk)
The GANG had a great time making fun of me (as if I cared…) however one by one most of them have disappeared pretty much proving the point that all they wanted was to blow their own trumpets and not to help others.Nov 30, 2012 at 10:37 pm #1932315
Franco, I am forced to give up. My IP has been banned from the site because the single administrator has always had an issue with me and found every way to get me into a situation where i would violate a TOS.
for example, he banned me for 2 weeks for making a comment about being warned not to comment about speed hiking anymore. Then blocked my PM's so that I could not discuss it.
He also has blocked me from multiple threads i was writing in so that I could no longer even see them, let alone reply.
A few months ago i received 5 curse laden PM's from a user and when I complained, he told me that he could not do anything because it was a private message matter and they wouldn't get involved.
What really pisses me off is A) dictatorship at the top.. the moderators can't do anything but monitor. the one admin has all the controls. B) the owner does not monitor the admin. he also apparently doesn't read his messages because i've PM'd him for weeks and now he won't help me now because I got pissed off and angry at the admin.
I'm disappointed because there were a few people on there I did like to talk to and the Long Trail sub forum was extremely useful for my thruhike this summer. It is a shame it is not run better.Dec 1, 2012 at 6:29 am #1932352
"You never gave me a chance to reply to you before you went off on the deep end by slamming Alligator" – Rick Towle "owner" of WB
I PM'd him MONTHS ago telling him that the Admin had a personal issue with me that he was taking out using his banning power.
what a f** joke (edited for Sarah)Dec 1, 2012 at 7:03 am #1932355
who cares if they are. I think you are mad about the fact you got banned than them being Anti-ultralightDec 1, 2012 at 7:21 am #1932361
No, They are hypocritical in their dealing with opinions from each "side"
people who promote going lighter and further are told to "cool it" while folks like Tipi Walter ramble on about 70lb packs in the snow in the middle of a discussion about ultralight backpacking.. IN the Ultralight Gear section are allowed to disrupt the conversation.
Also people are allowed all the time to tell people wanting to hike fast to slow down but when someone says they should lighthen their packs because they have extraneous things it is quickly met with "HYOH" bullshit
I was told straight up by the admin to stop discussion speed hiking.. When the thread I was involved in was in the Speed hiking subforum! (in which people were telling someone wanting to do a sub-100day AT hike to slow down and smell the roses or he won't have a good time)Dec 1, 2012 at 8:18 am #1932378
there is a whole section on ultralight hiking on WB. One thread by 10-k is always being posted on. Tipi's comments were made into a new thread.
WB is not like this site so don't expect it to be.
As far as the Speed Hiking forum there is a thread of someone wanting to do it in 60 days unsupported. So there are threads about that subject also.
It takes a lot to get banned on WB so it sounds like you pushed it and got banned…just sayin
Personally I don't care one way or the other..HYOHDec 1, 2012 at 8:55 am #1932389
@sarbarLocale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
How did you using the F word here get by the forum filters????????Dec 1, 2012 at 9:07 am #1932393
no idea, i edited it for you.
I am pretty annoyed at the situation. When the owner says "oh it's too late i never had a chance to deal with it" when it's been weeks.. is absurd.
Perhaps it is for the best, they are set in their ways over there and will continue to propagate inferior knowledge that UL is unsafe and 40-60lb packs on people who will hate backpacking afterward will continue. No wonder the AT failure rate is way higher than more difficult trails like PCT and CDTDec 1, 2012 at 9:36 am #1932399
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
Thanks for editing that outDec 1, 2012 at 10:20 am #1932411
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
Jake, I don't know if WB is anti ultralight or not, but I suspect it has more to do with how many forums are run. Many seem to have moderators that take it upon themselves to go well beyond their duties, policing not just language and offensive content, but any content they personally dislike. They also seem to have personal beefs and act upon them while in their "official" capacity. Reminds me of some of the problem cops we hear about.
This is one of the reasons I love BPL. Ryan Jordan and the moderators have done a great job in letting people express themselves, even when it gets uncomfortable.
What bothers me even more than owners or moderators that go overboard with their authority, is how Ok people are with it. Seems like people like to be herded, monitored, censored and so forth, because it gives them a sense of security perhaps?
Your experience is a bummer, but not unique. As long as the majority backs ups such abuse of power, we will see more of it.
I know, this is more Chaff than anything else, but I just had to..Dec 1, 2012 at 2:02 pm #1932436
Jake, listen to Wagon Wheel by Old Crow Medicine Show right now.
This song embodies the true spirit of the AT and the folks along it (though the will argue in the NE).
Whiteblaze itself is not to blame for your "rough" treatment.
Alright.. Just listen to the song please…
Makes more sense than words.Dec 1, 2012 at 2:20 pm #1932437
Kat, I agree somewhat. There are people on that site that I enjoy talking to.
I believe that it is wrong to have a singular admin. in charge. there is no balance of power and the owner is extremely hands off to the point where moderators on there have told me he will not intervene. So you say one wrong thing once and the guy has you flagged forever just waiting to give you the ax.
I am used to very lightly moderated forums so I am not used to having to play with kiddy gloves all the time.
HYOH.. unless it isn't like my hike.. and then you are wrong.Dec 1, 2012 at 6:04 pm #1932463
I am not going to try to defend WB but I think you are spinning this just a bit. Yes there is a huge part of the forum users that will resist any suggest of UL or high mile days. But there are several active threads on both of those subjects and many including myself are very supportive of the positions that you were advocating. I suspect that it was more the how than the what that resulted in the banning. Sounds a bit extreme based on what I saw in the threads but frankly you did push a bit more than was helpful.
I do think it is a bit tacky to go to another forum and complain about a site. Let it drop, move on and go for hike. A nice fast lightweight one. :)
Pick your battles.Dec 1, 2012 at 6:55 pm #1932472
Greg I did appreciate your posts and a few others.
The admin has shown a dislike for me for many months now and seems to treat my posts differently than others. I cannot reach my PM's anymore but he basically told me to stop posting about speed hiking after defending the guys doing the 90 day AT and the No Zero AT hikes. he had deleted many of my posts and banned me from the Cafe because I told them that I had been told not to post about speed hiking and the recent thread by 10K that Tipi geodeuced all over.
that Coffe-rules or whoever sent me seriously angry PM's and all the admin said was "ignore him and get over it" yet i make one post with a curse in it i get banned for 2 weeks.
So i disagree that it was the "how" because others have done the same "how" and it doesn't result in anything.Dec 1, 2012 at 8:07 pm #1932489
@sarbarLocale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Look, I'll play devil's advocate here. The problem with ANY well-loved thing in life is there is a fine line between preaching to the choir and proselytizing.
Do you want to open the door to religious folks who tell you your beliefs are wrong? Most people don't. Do you like going to a shooting range or a gym and being told that you are "doing it wrong"? Again, most don't. If they want to carry a big heavy pack, ya know what? It isn't affecting YOU. And heck, they are probably pulling your chain to a point as well – since they know they will get a reaction.
So how do people react? Often with anger or mocking. The reason people get banned on WB is that they are causing too much ruckus or drama. There are plenty of light hikers on there – but not are all vocal. Look, it is the same reason why men get highly censored in the women's section there. They were having huge issues a few years back with "helpful tips" from men on how women should handle their period, birth control and wearing bras. And when told to knock it off, they just kept coming back and back and back.
I know – I got told once to knock it off. I did, learned my lesson and hey. life went on. Without a heavy hand, forums CAN and DO fall apart easily enough.Dec 2, 2012 at 9:14 am #1932568
@balzaccomLocale: Wine Country
Your comments encouraged me to stop in the WB forums to see what was going on.
Ho hum. There are plenty of people on all sides, and enough curmudgeons to keep everyone entertained. Not sure it's where I am going to spend most of my time. And nobody is going to convince any of the curmudgeons that there is another side to the story.
But there are a ton of message boards on the internet, and I only participate in a few. Pick the ones you like, ignore the rest. Life is too short.Dec 2, 2012 at 5:36 pm #1932642
@hikinggrannyLocale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
I think Paul has it right. I drop in on WB once in a while to see what's going on. There are some "ultra heavy" advocates and quite a few lightweight/ultralite advocates. However, I don't have much interest in the AT, which is their main focus. I agree that the curmudgeons on that or any other forum, or anywhere in the world for that matter, are not going to change their minds. (My mind is made up so don't annoy me with the facts.) I am a bit of a curmudgeon, or at least Luddite, myself!
If someone wants to go lighter, I'll help them any way I can. If they don't, that's their problem, not mine. I may think a few scoffing thoughts, but I smile, say "Hi" and chat about the weather. However, when I do help, I increasingly describe my own experience (for what it's worth) rather than making blanket recommendations. Every individual is different, for which fact I shout hallelujah!Dec 2, 2012 at 5:54 pm #1932648
@balzaccomLocale: Wine Country
You sound entirely too rational, Mary. That's no fun. Now if you took a wildly outrageous position, and then defended it against all odds and all comers…we could have a flame war here.
Your approach just leads to helpful and rational discussion. sigh.
grin.Dec 2, 2012 at 6:11 pm #1932651
WB is pretty bad, even in the ultralight forum.Dec 2, 2012 at 6:31 pm #1932653
@paulmagsLocale: People's Republic of Boulder
Naaah…it's just one base camper who extrapolates his limited experience (granted, he does know winter camping very well) to every type of backpacking. He has a small amount of vocal followers.
Most people try to get lighter, enjoy their time in the outdoors and carry on.
Then there are stubborn people like me who still try to teach the pig to sing. :D
If you look at on-line forums as entertainment in part, and don't take it seriously, it is just a way to kill some time.
Then you go outside and realize it ain't that important.
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