Nov 10, 2012 at 7:18 am #1295920
Is there an easy (-er?) way to figure out how big a bear canister one needs?
I'm doing the JMT next year nice and slow (21-ish days) and have never done a thru hike of any kind before. I'm a simple eater, not much, actually (I've got plenty of on-board calories, if you know what I mean ;) and find that on longer hikes my food intake is rather minimal. My longest has been 16 days, and my most recent was a 12-day with only 8 pounds of food – and physically I never felt better (it was on this trip that I realized I wanted to do a big through hike…never felt so wonderful in my life). This last trip was not at altitude (I tend to eat even less at altitude..,)
Anyway, I'm going to make a Bearikade plunge for this trip (what is a big trip without splurging on a piece of kit!) and the rest of my stuff is pretty dialed in. I have a GG Gorilla, a 30* overstuff quilt from Tim, hexamid solo-plus, alky stove…
What I have never really thought that much about is food: I always just threw in some ramen, some mountain house, some mashed potatoes, cheese and sausage, some oatmeal, and I was done. But not sure how that flies on a 21+ day hike.
I'm thinking the weekender would be fine for me…but am I wrong?? I really don't want to actually own the expedition…or do I? My eventual goal is a pct thru, but that's still a few years away. I also don't t think that big one would fit in my pack anyway…..
Thoughts???Nov 10, 2012 at 7:31 am #1927479
@rayestrellaLocale: Northern MinnesotaNov 10, 2012 at 11:01 pm #1927593
@rexLocale: Central California Coast
Since your food needs seem to be atypical, you should estimate *your* food volume.
If you can pile up the maximum food you plan to take between resupplies, and measure the volume, you'll get the best estimate. Or pile up a typical and large fraction of the food you'll take (e.g. 5 days if you need 21), measure the volume, and multiply.
Measuring a loose food pile with a ruler is not very realistic, because you will be cramming the food into the bear container. Cramming the food into a bucket to measure volume is more realistic.
Simplest: Use a bucket with quart or gallon marks inside.
Or make a measuring bucket with a magic marker, a measuring cup, and water. 16 cups or 4 quarts equals one gallon.
Or measure the height and diameter of the food crammed into the bucket, and do the math.
The Bearikade Expedition is 900 cubic inches, about 3.9 gallons or 15.6 quarts.
The Bearikade Weekender is 650 cubic inches, about 2.8 gallons or 11.3 quarts.
Hope this helps.Nov 11, 2012 at 7:02 am #1927601
You can rent Bear Vaults from REI. It's worth the rental to have one to pack with your food, whether you test it out with a 7+ day trip or not.Nov 11, 2012 at 8:03 am #1927612
Thanks for the input…including the PMs (damn this forum ban!)
I also seem to be amazed at how much food people need on the trips…to me my frequent medium-sized trips (5-7 days) always feels like a cleansing or something. I am a bit hungry, but it never feels like a true glucose deficit or anything, and frankly, it feels kind of good ;)
I like the idea of renting one and just practicing…
Another quick question – how long is the average resupply distance on the pct? I read every 5-6 days, which would be great, but I'm sure there are times when it's much longer… Do people still take the smaller cans and split between bagging and canning? I can't imagine bringing the big boy just for the one or two times you need that much space.
How do you manage your canister/food supplies on the pct (or other long thrus)??Nov 11, 2012 at 9:13 am #1927616
@rayestrellaLocale: Northern Minnesota
If you have a pack big enough to carry the big one in the first place you already have the room, so switching to a smaller can won't help that much.Nov 11, 2012 at 10:08 am #1927619
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Yes and no. Taking a bear ball on any long distance trail means you always have to pay, in weight. They often have additional uses that make them usefull, besides just protecting your food from critters.
They are usefull stools. Looking around for someplace to sit while eating can be annoying and/or inconvienient.
They can save a lot of time. I often spend close to 15minutes or so hanging a bear bag. Just walking a bear ball away from camp can reduce your time spent with a hang.
The bear ball *forces* you to think in high density foods. Gone are the occasional 6 packs of donuts, and, partial loaves of bread that are so tempting on the trail and at towns. Think wraps, butter and cinamon for snacks. Food volume, usually weight, can be reduced, partially compensating for the weight of a bear ball.
Because they are constant volume, you can pack the pack as if it was fully loaded. There is no fiddling around with testing it.
Because they are pretty much constant volume in your pack, you fall into a routine for loading the pack. You do not need to think about packing a food bag with it's steadily changing volume on the trail.
The overall water resistance, especially of a Berikade, is good. Your food will not get wet. This is more applicable in wet terrain or on canoe trips.
You don't need an extra bag in your pack, nor rock sack to toss over a limb. Nor, line to haul it up a tree. The extra once or two can be applied to reducing the weight penalty of the bear ball.
Generally, you may feel safer with a bear ball than with hanging. Often, I have had to take less than optimal bear hangs because there were no good tree's around. Short hangs, too close to a limb, etc…I tend to worry knowing my hang is not perfect.
Especially if you are packing in late, it is often difficult to locate and hang a good bear line. Far easier to simply set the canister on the ground, away from camp. Same for early morning. On occasion, I have had to wait till I could see *where* the bloody bear line is…especially after a week or two of hiking. My wife laughingly joked one time that the bear had moved it. I think the 'coon did it.Nov 11, 2012 at 12:39 pm #1927648
@amrowincLocale: Southern California
If you can do 12 days with 8lbs of food your not likely to have a problem with volume. I can get 9 days of food at 1.5 to 1.75 lbs. per day in a Bearikade weekender. I could never do it packing food like Ray does but it's doable. When I used to use the freeze dried stuff nothing stayed in the package-it was all repackaged in plastic bags. You waste a lot of space putting prepackaged stuff in a canister. Google "how to pack a bear canister" for more info. Depending on when you go and more specifically if your traveling in snow conditions you might find you'll be burning a lot more calories which could considerably boost your seemingly miniscule appite.
With a longer hike you may find you develop a distaste for the same stuff. It's been my experience. I recommend as much variety as possible while maintaining a calorie dense diet. If you could stand eating peanut butter every day you could fill your canister with the stuff and be good to go without resupply on the JMT. On the JMT people do often hang food for a few days after a resupply, particularly after Muir Trail Ranch. Hanging is permitted from MTR down to Pinchot Pass. In your case you probably won't need too.
Regarding the PCT just about anything you want to know is on the PCT.org site. Specifically bear information is here.
Most PCT hikers only carry a canister where required, which as far as I know is only in certain specified areas in the Sierras from Cottonwood Pass to Yosemite. This link takes you to the map identifying those areas.
For all the info you need about PCT resupply I would suggest Yogi's guide: http://www.pcthandbook.com/Nov 11, 2012 at 1:15 pm #1927650
Jennifer – renting one – a good idea. But still you'll want to figure out your volume needs. So doing a test pack of 9 or 10 days food (which is about what you'll max at if you do a 21-day JMT and resupply at MTR for the last stretch) to see how much volume you need for that would be a great idea. My guess is you will be able to do it with a weekender, given how light your food has been. But I would ask how many miles you did over 12 days, and how many passes, because if that trip was not so much mileage or so much up and down, you'll need more calories to keep you going on the JMT. If you resupply at MTR, you can usually augment your menu with items from the free barrels if you're not picky.Folks often find their appetite increasing after the first week.
If you later decide to do the PCT, you will almost certainly be able to use the same canister. The same stretch in the Sierra will be your longest resupply, but you will likely be doing more miles per day.Nov 11, 2012 at 1:41 pm #1927651
I long ago learned about re-packaging food to make it smaller – and don't get me wrong I was pretty amazed at how little I ate during my patagonia and Everest trips. My guess is had there been an extra week in Patagonia tacked on I'd have suffered a bit with that caloric intake. Of course, I'm one of those mildly chubby girls who do tons of marathons so I always chalked it up to carrying around a lot of spare calories…just packed around my hips…and knowing how to use them ;)
I do tend to lose a LOT of weight on trips…but I'm not joking when I tell you how much better I feel! I really think these shorter trips (8-12 days) with that kind of calorie deficit is actually kind of cleansing.
I accidentally stumbled on a similar thread here (weekender vs expedition for the JMT) and the consensus seemed to be the weekender. I have no problems bagging a few nights when I can to eat up the spare food that won't fit immediately after the re-supply.
I just have spent so much time tweaking my actual kit over the past two years, I have only just started to paying attention to food. It never has been an issue on these shorter trips, but with a slower 21-day extravaganza I may have to spend the upcoming season dialing in menus and food packing.
Thanks again – I always appreciate learning so much from you guys.Nov 11, 2012 at 2:59 pm #1927665
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
Remember, the rules say your food for the current day does not have to be in a canister. I suggest an odorproof sack. That automatically reduces your canister load by one lunch, one dinner, and whatever snacks you'll use. It's not much, but it can make the difference in canister choice.
I have a Bearikade Expedition and have used it for years on the PCT, most often but not exclusively in the Sierra. It is a multi-duty item – bear canister, camp stool, camp table, secure FLAT base for my stove (I can strap my closed cell foam camp pad ¾ of the way around it as a tall, secure windscreen). As space becomes available inside the canister, I move other items of gear into it, freeing up pack space inside or out.
How many days’ food will any given canister carry depends entirely on what you’re eating. The only way to know is to try one. REI sells the BearVault (BV450 Solo and BV500) and the smaller black Garcia Can. You can always return the one(s) that don’t work. I seriously doubt that either the Garcia Can or the BearVault 450Solo will be adequate for you, especially if you’re carrying for more than 5 days. I’d say start with the BV500….and see if you can borrow an Expedition from someone local on the forum.
The BV500 is much cheaper than either of the Bearikades (Weekender or Expedition). The Expedition is the largest capacity, lightest canister made, but at $275, it is spendy. If you anticipate using it more than just for a single trip, it is worth the extra bucks …..IMO. No, I don’t work for Wild Ideas. I’ve seen and tried the others and I’ll stick with my Expedition.
Incidentally, you can also rent one direct from Wild Ideas. See http://www.wild-ideas.net/rent-a-bearikade
As noted by another responder, you can rent bear canisters from the rangers in Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne Meadows. They have mostly Garcia Cans and a smaller supply of Bearikades. As far as I know, its first come, first served.
From your post, I’m assuming you will be starting from Yosemite Valley and going south to Whitney Portal at an average pace of 10 miles per day.
Your possible resupply points will be:
1 – Tuolumne Meadows – 25 miles from Yosemite Valley
2 – Red’s Meadow – 34 miles from TM
3 – Vermillion Valley Resort -29 miles from Red’s Mdw…… OR….
4 – Muir Trail Ranch – 20 miles from VVR
5 – Onion Valley/Independence via Kearsarge Pass – 68 miles from MTR + 9 to OV
6 – Whitney Portal – 41 miles from the KP trail jct.
It’s a long, hot climb out of Yosemite Valley. While it is possible to skip the resupply at TM, it is not advisable. Why carry all that extra food weight needlessly? Make it easy on yourself. You can fully resupply at the store at TM or send yourself a package to the PO there.
Red’s Meadow is a must-stop; cold drinks, a great café, shower and laundry facilities. Besides, you’ll need it.
Going south, there is no need to resupply at both VVR and MTR, as they are only 2 days apart. I would suggest you carry 5 days’ food out of Red’s Mdw and skip VVR (29 miles south of Red’s Mdw) entirely. It is 6 miles off-trail if you walk or, depending on the water level in the lake, a 1 or 2 miles walk to the ferry landing. Resupply at MTR instead (20 miles south of VVR). It is a mere 0.5 miles downhill off-trail and a gentle 1.5 mile connector that takes you back south to rejoin the JMT. It means carrying 2 days less food from VVR if you were to skip MTR.
From either VVR or MTR, you have a decision to make regarding resupply.
Option 1: Onion Valley Pack Station: Leave the JMT at the Charlotte Lake/Kearsarge Pass Trail junction. Hike 9 miles over Kearsarge Pass and down to Onion Valley. The Sequoia-Kings Pack Trains station (800-962-0775) will hold packages for you at a cost on par with MTR) or can deliver them to you at many places on the trail (prohibitively expensive unless you’re a group). You can also get a shower at the pack station for a small fee.
Option 2: Independence or Lone Pine: As above, get to Onion Valley. Hitch a ride down to Independence P.O. or better yet, catch the bus from Independence to Lone Pine and resupply in a full-service town. Reverse to get back to Onion Valley. There is a commercial shuttle service in Lone Pine (http://www.mtwhitneyshuttle.com) that will also take you back, but that’s about $90 one way.
Option 3: There are restrooms, potable water, and public bear boxes beside the main parking lot at Onion Valley. You could leave yourself a resupply box in one of them, but they are out in the sun all day and are not secured. Better to have a friend drive in and meet you at the USFS Onion Valley campground (~$20/night).
Option 4: Skip Onion Valley entirely and carry enough food for the final 109 miles (11 days). You’ll need the large Bearikade Expedition canister for that, plus you’ll be carrying a lot of weight up and down the 5 major passes ahead of you. At least your pack will be getting lighter with each meal.Nov 11, 2012 at 6:26 pm #1927693
I did wandering_bob's option four with a BV500. Did 8 days but am big eater and used a bag for a few days overflow at the beginning from MTR south. Bigfoot-15Nov 12, 2012 at 3:09 pm #1927830
Wandering Bob…this was awesome. I hadn't gotten that far in terms of planning, I was just hoping Santa might leave a Bearikade under the tree this year ;) But this has been the most intimidating part of this (I'm a resupply virgin…) and your post really takes a lot of the anxiety away. The guide books and trip reports are great, but even those aren't really as specific as your post.
My problem is that I can't imagine using an expedition very much outside of this trip, but the weekender would get a fair amount of additional use. And since we we only going to be doing 10-15 mile days I figured I could get away with less food, too. that last bit from MTR to Whitney does have me a somewhat concerned…but you're right. A days food that doesn't have to be in the canister, plus I don't have to use the canister that WHOLE time, right? We could also maybe just take our time during the first part, then kick up the mileage during the second part. But if I can get that much time off, I certainly want to spend it on the trail!
Thanks again everyone…despite all the riff-raff lately I do love these forums. You guys have completely changed how I hike and I can't thank you enough. My bank account, on the other hand…………Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 pm #1927848
Don't mean to drift your thread – – but didn't really want to start another one, when it would be so close to this one.
Debating on the $65 shipped BV500 deal for PCT thruhikers (if I do it this coming year) versus the costof the Bearikade Weekender or Expedition.
BV500 (41 oz.) and fits 700 cu in. (8.7 x 12.7") – $65 shipped to where I'd need to pick it up.
Bearikade Expedition (36 oz.) and fits 900 cu in. (9 x 14.5") – $287 shipped to my house and then I'd need to have it sent out.
BV500 = $1.58 per ounce shipped to trail
Bearikade Expedition = $7.97 per ounce shipped to my door (Total weight savings = about 5 ounces)
Is that $222 really worth saving 5 ounces ??? I don't know because I've never actually used a bear canister. Ever. I think that this size would also be the minimum I could get away with . . . with a thru-hikers appetite and high mileage I can't imagine fitting what I assume would need to be at least 5 days of food into the Weekender. Thoughts ? (I did see Scott S post about his needing the Expedition, but would love to hear any other confirmations of that thought, or other ideas ??Nov 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm #1927927
@sierradougLocale: Bay Area, CA, USA
I'd say the extra money for the Expedition is not worth saving 5 oz, but that's up to you. I got one for the JMT this past summer for the volume for the longest stretch between resupplies. But I had experience with a couple of different bear cans to go by.
You might want to take someone's advice earlier in this thread and buy a typical five days food (or however many days), stuff it into a bucket, and multiply to get the actual number of days you'll be carrying. And then do the math for the volume of the bucket vs the two bear cans you're thinking of.Nov 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm #1927937
@hikinggrannyLocale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
I was able to get 3 days' food for 4 people into the large Bear Vault, to the amazement of the Olympic NP rangers. Admittedly, 2 of the 4 were elementary school-age children, but they had big appetites and I took a lot of relatively bulky cocoa mix (enriched with additional powdered milk) so they'd get their milk. Admittedly, the obligatory (when backpacking with kids) s'mores ingredients were not included; I packed those in a separate plastic jar.
Here's how I did it:
Get rid of all bulky packaging. Repackage everything into zippered plastic bags. Remove as much of the air as possible, but don't vacuum seal because that produces a hard, non-squishable lump. You want everything soft and squishy! Use compact foods such as couscous, rice, quinoa which take up less space. Cous-cous is a form of pasta–it may look weird with spaghetti sauce, and you can't slurp the noodles, but it tastes the same. If you must use regular pasta, take a hammer to it to reduce its bulk as much as possible. Use as much dried (dehydrated or freeze-dried) food as possible. Some suggest a needle hole in the plastic bags just under the zip fastener so you can get more air out. If you rehydrate your food in the plastic bags, be sure to keep the bags upright while hydrating and eating out of the bag, so the pinholes don't leak! Add fat in the form of a plastic bottle of olive oil (pack it in a plastic bag–without needle hole–in case of leaks).
When packing the bear canister, put in a very thin layer at a time and press down very firmly after inserting each layer. Keep squashing and squashing, as hard as you can! You want to fill up every bit of air space inside that canister. It's amazing how much you can get in there if you work at it!
Three important items: (1) The first day's food does not need to be in the canister since you'll be eating it before the first night. (2) Make sure the food for day 2 breakfast, lunch and dinner and day 3 breakfast and lunch are at the top of the canister. You definitely don't want to be unpacking and repacking the whole canister the morning of day 2 or 3! Murphy's law says you'll never get everything back inside! After breakfast and lunch of day 3, it's no big deal. (3) Scented items such as toothpaste, lotions, sunscreen need to go in the canister the first night; be sure there's room for them. Make sure the containers for these are no bigger than you need for the period between re-supplies.
If you're going to be backpacking in the northern Rockies in areas where bear canisters are required, they must certified by the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee. Bearikade canisters do not meet the grizz test.
Page down to posts by Greg Mihalik–note the photo in his first post!
Fortunately, my son has a Bear Vault, so I can trade my Bearikade (OK for Olympic NP and the Sierra) with him if necessary.
In a home trial, I was able to cram 5 full days of food for me and 5 days' kibble for my 70-lb. dog into my Bearikade Weekender. (I did have to take a hammer to the dog kibble.) I suspect a thru-hiker (who needs a lot more calories than I do!) should be able to cram 6-7 full days of food into the Weekender following the above instructions. Again, remember that the first day's food doesn't need to be in the canister, so that means up to 8 days with the Weekender, with careful cramming.
Jennifer, on a thru-hike you are eventually going to run through the "stored" calories (I have a lot of those!) and at some point your appetite is going to zoom with your need for additional calories from food. You'll want to be prepared for when that happens! Cheese, candy bars…. The main problem is that the appetite continues for some time after the hike is over–danger time!Nov 13, 2012 at 6:05 am #1927974
@jamesdmarcoLocale: Finger Lakes
Great post, Mary!
High caloric density foods:
* Fats and oils (~250calories per ounce.) Olive oil, parified butter, etc.
* Cheeses: Usually the harder types are better in a bear ball
* Jerky, dried beef, hard pepperoni, summer sausage, etc…
* Dehydrated vegies: Corn, peas, onions, green beans, okra, peppers, tomatoes, apples
* Nuts, sunflower seeds, cashews, macademia nuts, peanuts etc.
* Instant potatoes
* Oatmeal (mostly for fiber, offsetting the the above)
* 1/2 pound bisquick
* Lipton Sides, rice
* Vitamin/mineral pill to insure balance…vitamin-C can be difficult to get.
* spices (cinimon/sugar, red pepper, salt, black pepper, minced garlic, oregano)
* Chocolate bars, crushed fritoes or potatoe chips, etc.
All are repackaged into bulk baggies, with the air "sucked" out.
I can manage to get 7 days in a Bear Vault Solo. This lets me make a large variety of meals: Soups, stews, spanish rice, tacos, pot pies/shepherds pie, etc. All require 15-20 minutes to prepare. Making a bisquit ball may take longer, but this is only on days I can get a camp fire together.
Caloric intake really makes a difference: Hiking and climbing the high peaks area with 8 pounds of food is much different from paddling 35 miles. I generally need less than average. I never plan on loosing weight, I just do. But, I carry a 10-20 pound "reserve", so it doesn't really bother me to head out with ~3000C per day. However, for LONG trips(2-3 weeks) I plan on more food.
I think 2/3pound per day would NOT be enough. Mike Clelland's book mentions his eating schedule. Lower for the first week, normal the second week, much higher thereafter. Well laid out amd written. I agree, based on my experience. Though I usually "settle in" within the first 3-4 days. (I believe this depends on how much time you have spent in the woods, too. About the second time I have to crap, my system is pretty much aclimitized to being out, and, I am eating more.)
I am not sure if you could do 21 days with any bear ball. Figuring a pound of food per day (this is light) this is ~23 pounds of food. The Berikade Expidition would be the only candidate, based on size. This would be close. Resupply stops always cost about a day of hiking, if they are not on the trail. So, I try to avoid them, but I think you will need at least one. Generally a bandana bath near any water will keep you clean enough. Carrying enough water could be the big problem with the pack weight of 35pounds, though. Again, with proper planning, you can probably do this with one resupply near the middle with no discomfort.Nov 13, 2012 at 6:57 pm #1928152
@ramblerLocale: On the AT in VA
I carried the rented Expedition and had it stuffed for 8 days of meals after the Muir Trial Ranch. It was easy to mail back from Lone Pine. It does not need to be boxed. It arrived the week I left the east coast, so I was able to pack it at home, too. My daughter hiked with me for five days, so it was full at the start,Nov 14, 2012 at 11:53 pm #1928475
I used the BV450 with 3 resupply stops. No problem ever fitting in the food I wanted. Like you, I am NOT a chow hound on such relatively short trips and welcome the opportunity to burn off some extra body fat without experiencing any loss of energy. I also have a slower metabolism and tend to graze rather than eat big meals.
My personal theory and experience is that unless you're doing a thru-hike that is signifacantly longer than 30 days and you have a few extra pounds of body fat, then there is no need to gorge on extra food every day because you already have enough reserve fuel onboard to do just fine with eating only a moderate amount daily. For planning purposes, with the food I use, 1 lb or less per day is more than sufficient for me.
For the JMT, I started with a few days worth of food and then resupplied at Tuoloume Meadows, Red's and Muir Trail Ranch, where I picked up the most food by weight and days for the last week of the trip. I had 10 days worth of food at just about 10 pounds, but finished in 8 days, so I had food left over at the end. I even left a lot of what I sent to MTR in my resupply bucket behind in the hiker barrels.
Thing is, there are parts of SEKI where a bear can is not required. So, if you have a few things that don't fit in your can after leaving MTR, just use a loksak or similar odor proof ziploc bag, etc to store your extra food in.
Sounds like your calorie needs and eating habits on trail may be similar to mine.
Best of luck and have fun.Nov 15, 2012 at 7:04 am #1928521
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
The LokSack is not odor proof; you'll want the OPSack – same manufacturer.
Neither are legal in the Sierra as stand-alone bear containers, but they work great for trash or for holding some really smelly stuff that goes into the bear can. I also use one for my "today's food" that is not in the bear can.Nov 15, 2012 at 7:14 am #1928523
Thanks for the input Susan (and everyone else, too!) I really am surprised at how much food everyone here seems to need. Granted, the vast majority of my hiking is in the Midwest and at sea level with minimal elevation changes, but even during some longer and higher altitude stretches I just don't seem to eat that much. My 8-day Winds trip this past August I took 5 pounds of food, never touched my trail mix and only wished I had brought a few more coffees. I just am not that hungry when I hike…
During my Everest trip – when I was in MUCH better shape – I had such a crappy appetite I would go whole days on nothing but half a snickers bar and a small bowl of ramen.
It will be interesting to see how or if my eating requirements change during a 20-day hike…but honestly, it's not like I can't stand to lose a few and would love to wrap up at Whitney 10-15 pounds lighter!!
I'm going to try the rental option and play around with the different sizes. I'd like to be able to use the smaller version (since it would be far more useful during my regular trips) and I just can't imagine fitting one of those big ones in my pack with all my other stuff.
How do you guys do that??? I have good gear, take no extra clothes and (obviously) I take much less food. How can you carry these teeny tiny packs?? I'm working hard to fit all my gear in my Gorilla for a 4-day trip this weekend and there's no canister involved ;)Nov 15, 2012 at 5:29 pm #1928729
@rexLocale: Central California Coast
My food needs can change dramatically from trip to trip. I've taken anywhere from 1.4 to 2.2 pounds per day backpacking, but I always get real hungry after a week, and when in town, "second breakfast" is not a Hobbit joke.
In contrast, years ago, I rowed a 20 foot raft for 18 days down the Grand Canyon, which is mostly flat water with upstream winds. Every day we unloaded and reloaded most of the heavyweight gear on the boats. Every other day we day hiked a couple miles up side canyons. All very hard work. Yet I ate less food than usual, lost 15 pounds (not water weight), and I was never hungry. Go figure.
Everybody's different, and everybody changes.
Re: teeny tiny packs. You might want to post your gear list and ask for feedback.Nov 16, 2012 at 12:42 am #1928835
Sorry, I meant the OPSAK.
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