Stronger tent poles

[Ted E]

i have a black diamond firstlight that i use for many of my trips, from deserts to high alpine. although its a great tent, i would prefer to have a bit stiffer pole that can help it withstand wind better. does anyone know of a stiffer pole that is made for this tent. the only aftermarket poles I've seen are the fibraplex poles, which just seem to be lighter, not necessarily stronger.

[ROBERT TANGEN]

I have two sets of regular poles for my Firstlight, and it is very easy to put both of them in place, and secure both of them with the same little Velcro tabs. If you don't expect heavy winds or heavy snow, just take one set of poles.

[Franco Darioli]

NM

[Paul McLaughlin]

Robert's comment on the double-poling is the way to go. A stiffer single pole would be much harder to get in place, maybe not even feasible, while the double poles give you double strength without that issue – it just takes a little longer to get the second set in place. And there are variations – like one set standard poles and one carbon, or two sets of carbon – though that gets pretty pricey!

Hilleberg suggests double poling for their tents in extreme weather.

[Ted E]

so i think doubling up the poles is doable, and i have been thinking about getting some carbon poles, so those would do the trick.

when doubling up the poles, should i worry about them poking through the bottom of the tent corner, since theres only one grommet for them to fit in?

[ed hyatt]

You can always go the 11mm Scandium route – they are pretty resilient to say the least.

http://www.fliegfix.com/kategorien/scandium-zeltgestaenge-11mm/157

No idea about US suppliers.

[Roger Caffin]

> should i worry about them poking through the bottom of the tent corner, since theres
> only one grommet for them to fit in?
Could be a problem there!

Me, I would go for a single pole with just a slightly larger diameter.

Cheers

[ROBERT TANGEN]

There is quite a bit of reinforced fabric in the area around the grommet, but to be safe, you can wrap duct tape around the ends.

[Ryan Jordan]

I used to use double poles on my Integral Designs MK1Lite, which has been my primary mountaineering tent. The stock poles can't support a wind or snow load of any meaningful amount, but they have this neat feature that Roger really loves, and that is they collapse on you when the loads get too high, and then pop back up! Pretty keen feature, eh? (sic)

I then did the double pole thing. I didn't have to worry about grommets in the MK1Lite, the ends go into reinforced caps and two pole sets work fine.

I then switched to 11mm Scandium, which was stronger than one stock Al sets, but not as strong as two. But the ease of one pole set was attractive.

Finally, I sewed internal stabilizers into the tent, and a few external guyline attachment points, and used them to stabilize wind and snow loads. They got in the way and were really annoying, but combined with earplugs, made for much better sleep where I didn't have to get up and shovel my tent in a blizzard because the walls were collapsing.

I've since switched to a Brooks Range Rocket Tent. It uses an avalanche probe for the main cross pole and two ski poles for the front support bipod. Obviously the ski poles are strong enough and the avy probe depends on the probe (I use a carbon one – they are much stronger than most carbon tent poles). This tent is completely solid, requires no fooling around, and is lighter. But sadly, it's no longer made.

[ROBERT TANGEN]

From the Brooks-Range website: "The versatile Propel tent allows the user to use ski poles and an avalanche probe for set up during winter adventures or your trekking poles during summer outings. Both concepts follow the design theory we originally used on our Award Winning Rocket Tent. Weight just 2lb 7oz with poles."
The original Cuben Rocket had some catastrophic delamination failures, because they were using some exotic reflective Cuben, so they discontinued it, now re-incarnated in another fabric.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I'm modding my new (today) TarpTent Scarp 2 for winter use.

Besides running the shortened crossing poles INSIDE the fly I am getting a "winter pole" for the exterior main pole sleeve from TentPole Technologies.

A heavier wall thickness and bigger diameter will give me the increased strength to resist a blow-down from a heavy, nearly vertical wind that sometimes happens in the mountains. Fiddling with two poles – OR carrying them – is not my idea of fun.

Besides, if Hilleberg offers heavier duty pole options I figure they must know it works.

In addition my interior fly crossing poles will push up against the exterior main pole when tensioned. This should give additional support against collapse by spreading the force.

Properly guying the main pole sides and ends of the canopy also helps prevent severe deformation of the poles.

Finally I recommend hanging a lucky rabbit's foot at the interior apex. That and Tibetan incantations will help.

If all else fails make a quinzhee or dig a snow cave the next day and burn the tent as a sacrifice to Snorre, the snow god.

EDIT:
I have posted photos of the completed Scarp 2 mods in WINTER HIKING. So far so good in a test in 60 mph gusts with all guylines out.

[peter vacco]

as per Ryan :

"Finally, I sewed internal stabilizers into the tent, and a few external guyline attachment points, and used them to stabilize wind and snow loads. They got in the way and were really annoying, but combined with earplugs, made for much better sleep"

yup.
one starts to look at how a single line from a guy point lets things ever-so-easily wander 90° from it's axis, and extra lines come into play pretty quick.
internal lines are indeed hideous, but for the few hours you need them, and considering they lay there doing nothing until you hook them up, they can really keep your act together in a good blow.
—
notes :
internal guys keep the poles from distorting Outwards, just as the external guys keep them from distorting inwards.
splayed guys keep poles from failing in a spiral collapsing sort of scenario.

a pole twice as long is one forth as strong (roughly). so anything you can do to shorten the stretch between it's supporting guys can pay big dividends as opposed to using just a stouter pole.

you can play fantasy games that over multiple guys make a light tent stronger, and they will … once it's set up, but eventually you will lose the light tent vs wind battle during erection.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Never mind! Post deleted.

[Anthony Huhn]

I'm hoping Eric's deleted post was advice about the problem you have with erections in the cold…

Seriously though, I'm thinking the internal guys are a good idea.

Those firstlights don't have much in the way of external guys either right? Maybe add an extra set of those too so you'd have one set low and high?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Tent erections Anthony, TENT erections in the cold.

(But now that you mention it…)

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