Hiking the John Muir Trail with our 9 and 10 year old daughters

[Manfred]

Terry,

we had no issues with bugs. Normally we would just put head nets over when cowboy camping, but this year that was not necessary – unlike last year, when the bugs were out in force due to the late snow melt.

Cooking for four with the Caldera F-Keg works, but takes patience. My wife didn't have that patience and decided to carry the JetBoil Sol TI. The JetBoil by itself would certainly be enough – it is so fast and convenient. We used the two parts of the caddy for the Foster's Keg as our mugs – my wife and I would share one and our daughters would share one. We had two warm meals – lunch and dinner – both being mountain house freeze dried meals. In the past we would have warm oatmeal in the morning, but more recently we switched to cold granola. We would still often have hot chocolade or hot tea to drink with breakfast. So we boiled water two to three times a day.
Here is one day of our day-by-day food list. That particular day didn't have hot chocolade, but otherwise shows everything. This day was also towards the end. In the beginning we would have only one snack (we learned the last years that your hunger is way less the first week) and then every couple of days increase it by one bar up to four after two weeks. Our daughters had their own preference of bars (PowerBar, Luna Bar) but mine is Clif bars. The mountain houses have two servings and the one that is shown for dinner was shared with my wife. She shared hers with me during lunch.

Manfred

Meal Description Calories Oz Cal/Oz Fat(g) Carbs(g) Fiber (g) Protein(g)
Breakfast Granola (1/2 cup) 220 2 110 8 33 4 5
Dry Milk (1/3 cup) 80 1 100 0 12 0 8
Fruit & Nut Medley (1/4 cup) 140 1 127 6 17 1 3
Snack #1 Clif Bar – Apricot 230 2.4 96 3 45 5 10
Fruit & Nut Medley (1/4 cup) 140 1 127 6 17 1 3
Macademia Nuts (1/4 cup) 230 1 230 24 4 2 2
Gatorade (1 Tsp) 50 1 100 0 14 0 0
Snack #2 Trio 230 1.7 135 16 20 3 6
Gatorade (1 Tsp) 50 1 100 0 14 0 0
Snack #3 Clif Bar – Oatmeal Walnut Raisin 240 2 100 5 43 5 10
Snack #4 Trio 230 1.7 135 16 20 3 6
Dinner Mountain House – Chicken a la King with Noodles 680 6.35 107 28 80 4 48
. Gatorade (1 Tsp) 50 1 100 0 14 0 0
2570 22.05 117 112 333 28 101

[Yuri R]

I'm sure girls enjoyed the trip immensely. Adventures like these will stay in their memories and will bring many smiles through the years head.

Great trip and excellent report!

[Tom D.]

Great trip report Manfred. It was nice meeting you and your family at both the hot springs (you showed me where they were) and Crabtree Meadow. My boys still talk about you all, as your daughters were the only ones that they saw that were younger than them. Kudos to them and to you for a great hike.

You also offered us a ride into Lone Pine, but we managed to hitch a ride with a couple of long-haired hippie types before you got there. Thanks again.

[Manfred]

Hi Tom,

You are welcome. The girls were looking for your boys on the last day. You must have gotten an early start. We actually waited a little bit at Whitney Portal – just in case we leap frogged you, due to our decision not to summit in the hail. But you must have already gone.

Say "Hi" to your boys. They are quite the troopers.

Manfred

[Justin Baker]

Wow! Your girls are tough. I know a lot of grown men who would probably give up after a few miles of hiking.

[Tom Clark]

Manfred et al.,
Thanks for sharing the great trip report. Just a few comments…

– Kudos to you & your wife for taking your girls on the JMT and making it work so well for them!
– Kudos to your girls for putting in those miles, and with smiles on their faces. They are tough AND cute. Gotta say though that they always looked fresher than you…might be time to switch more weight into their packs. ;)
– Shame on that guy and his companions!!!
– I was at the visitor's center of Yosemite's Mariposa Grove with my family when a woman (foreign tourist) threw her cigarette butt on the ground. Bad enough that I had to smell that smoke while trying to enjoy one of the most beautiful places on earth, but to see her toss that butt on the ground when there was a place to dispose of it 3 feet from her was too much for me. I didn't say a word, but walked over, picked up the butt, and through it in the recepticle. She tracked me down after the tour (and her fellow tourists had walked away) to yell at me for embarassing her in front of her friends…jeez, thought you could only embarass yourself.

Tom

[Manfred]

Tom,

Wow, that woman yelled at your for picking up her trash and putting it where it belongs?
It's always amazing to me to see how some people treat the wilderness they are visiting – and then get upset when being made aware of their behavior – even in such an indirect way as yours.

Manfred

[Tom Clark]

Manfred,
You misunderstood me.

She EXPECTED someone to pick up her cigarette butt…once she had gone.

She was FURIOUS that someone would highlight her faux pas…in front of her friends.

I still shake my head over it, but am glad that my son was there to witness it. Regardless, your experience was more extreme, but maybe better for your daughters to learn from.

Tom

[Tom D.]

Manfred,

The rude guys in your photo look a bit like the guys who were reported littering on top of Half Dome. I wasn't up there, but people on their way down told me that they had observed 3 guys littering, and when they were asked to pick it up they replied "we might later", then proceeded to yell profanities when the crowd wouldn't tolerate their littering. A bit farther down the trail, the rangers had found the guys and were ticketing them for the incident on Half Dome and threatening them with worse. I only got a short glance at them, but they look something like the guys in your picture. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Thankfully, everyone else that I met on the trail the entire hike were courteous and friendly.

And yes, we made it to Guitar Lake the previous night and started up Whitney just before 7 a.m. We did kind of the same as you. We were warned by a ranger near trail crest not to go to the summit due to lightening danger, so we went within about 300 yards of the summit before declaring the hike done. The boys wanted to wait for pizza in Lone Pine, but upon finally reaching Whitney Portal they were really wanting a burger. Those burgers were indeed good.

[Manfred]

Tom,

The guy who showed us multiple middle fingers and barfed his mental diarrhea over us is very easy to identify. You can see it even in the low res picture – his left eye brow has a big patch of light colored hair in it.

I'm sure once you see it you will recognize him.

Manfred

[Andrew F]

Manfred,

I just saw that you posted a TR on here. Both Ellen and I really enjoyed reading about your experience and seeing your photos. Too bad about the guys on Donohue, but what are you going to do? It reflects poorly on them and well on you & your family. I am very impressed with your daughters. It must be wonderfully empowering for them to have completed such a long hike. Ellen and I were out in a couple of storms while you guys were on the trail and we were glad when we could get back to our car & dry clothes. Hopefully the weather is done for awhile!

Andrew

[Bill Wang]

Hi Manfred,
Congratulations and thanks for posting this. Very inspiring. I was wondering how you found the Zpacks WPBCF Jacket with all the rain this year? I have one but haven't really tested it hiking in the rain much. I am planning to take it for about half of the JMT next week with my daughter (Mammoth to South Lake). Thanks! -Bill.

[Manfred]

Hi Bill,

The jacket worked very well.

– It kept me dry in all the rain — ok that is expected of a rain jacket
– It dealt well with my sweat. Breathable rain jackets have their limits in regard to breathing out the moisture you produce when hiking. This jacket did a good job in the conditions we encountered. It was not cold at all, so whenever the rain eased I could open the zipper for better venting.
– I had no problems with abrasion. Having read a lot about abrasion with cuben, I was originally concerned the shoulder area might be a problematic area with carrying a backpack all day. This was not the case. The jacket shows some discoloration in those areas which I assume has to do with different layers of the cuben. But I can't detect any abrasion problems.

Together with the ZPacks Cuben mitts the jacket was an essential part our succesful JMT hike this year.

Manfred

[Don A.]

I'm coming in on this late but just wanted to say hello Manfred. I met you and the family at MTR when Barbara K. and I pulled in for our resupply. Your daughters are little sweethearts. Just before you were leaving they came over to the hiker barrels where Barbara and I were sorting out our stuff. They were making one last check for goodies and latched onto something Barbara had just tossed in the barrel.
It is a shame to have had to deal with some unpleasantness on the trail. Sometimes there is no accounting for human stupidity. But I am sure the pleasant memories will far outlast the bad. I suspect your daughters will cherish the adventure for the rest of their lives.

Don Amundson
Still Lookin'

[Dirk Rabdau]

I enjoyed your photos from your trip – you and your family have the right stuff it takes to enjoy and complete a long distance trail. What a fantastic experience! The three neanderthals you met on Donahue Pass notwithstanding (and kudos to you for keeping your cool), I am sure the experience of these hikes will greatly influence your daughters through adulthood Every time I see a young person on the trail it gives me hope that there will be those in the future who will speak for conservation and protection of wilderness.

Dirk

[keith obrien]

Enjoyed reading all your trip details. Where is the hot springs that you visited after Reds Meadow located?

[Manfred]

Hi Keith,

We just returned from a 2-week trip into the Sierra with our daughters. The hot springs are marked on map #9 of the Tom Harrison JMT map pack as "Iva Bell Hot Springs".. They are located along the Fish Creek Trail.

Have fun out there!

Manfred

[eric schultz]

Great job on the JMT. I am planning a 5 night trip this summer in the Inyo National Forest with my wife and 2 kids. Their ages are 8 and 10. In your trip summary you describe the kids as going UL. I saw the gear list for you and your wife. I am interested in what the kids carried. What was the weight of the kid's packs? Did the kids carry their own fishing poles? If so what type of poles?
I saw a sample day of food for you and your wife, but what did you pack for the girls. I struggle with packing everything into the bear canisters. I have the BV 500. It seems like your family only carried one canister between food drops. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks
Eric

[Manfred]

Eric,

a week with your wife and two kids in the Sierra sounds great.

The list you saw in this thread Manfred's & Hannah's gear for the JMT 2012 is the list for myself and my 10 year old daughter, Hannah. Our daughters, Natalie and Hannah, carried both their own gear (s. spreadsheet). The kids carried their own fishing poles – they are listed in the spreadsheet as Tenkara Yagi. These fishing poles are now sold as Clarkii by Rutalocura. They require a trekking pole handle as handle. Our two daughters would use the handles of my Gossamer Gear LT4 for that.
My wife and I carried each a Bearikade Expedition with food. Our kids ate the same food we did – they had their own choices for bars and their own choices for Mountain House Meals, but the general meal plan was the same for all four of us. A Bearikade Expedition fits 10 person days of food for us. So we could go for 5 days without resupply. By carrying the first day of food outside of the bear canister, we could stretch it to 6 days and by not bringing dinner for the last day we were able to stretch it even to a complete week. Our BV500 fits 7 person days of food – if we repackage the Mountain Houses. You would have to pack really tight to manage with your family for 5 nights with two BV500. I would consider to rent a Bearikade here

Have a great time out there!

Best Regards,

Manfred

[eric schultz]

Manfred,
Thanks for the information. I am wondering about the 2 tents used during your trip. Did the Blackdiamond Betalight have any condensation issues? Did you use any bug netting.
How did the SMD cuben haven perform? Was it worth the price or would you recommend another style?
Thanks
Eric

[Manfred]

Hi Eric,

We didn't have any condensation issues on the JMT with either tent. My wife and I used the SMD Cuben Haven (carried by our daughter as it is roughly half the weight) and our daughters used the BD BetaLight (carried by me as it is heavier).

The kids – especially scouts who are not siblings – generally prefer the BetaLight design because it has the trekking poles in the middle between the two persons. My wife and I prefer the Haven design, because there are no poles between us and we each have our own door on the side and our own vestibule – instead of just one door in the front.

We prefer the Cuben Haven over the silnylon Haven because it is lighter to begin with (10 oz instead of 18 oz). Another important advantage is that you can just shake off the water after it rains, while the silnylon takes on a lot of water and weighs way more until it is dried out again. Those two advantages were worth the extra money for the Cuben to us.

We have the InnerNet for the Haven, but didn't need it on the JMT.

I hope that helps,

Manfred

[eric schultz]

Manfred,
I know that you have spoke on this subject in other posts, but I just had some specfic questions. I am looking at the zpacks “arc blast” 60liters backpack. I see that you have the exo. I do not see that one listed on the zpacks website. The site states that the blast will fit a bear canister inside the pack. Do you know how much more gear can be packed? I am wondering what if any, extra equipment you added to the pack. Such as; top pockets, top straps, etc. I am looking for a lighter pack. I currently use the osprey 70, at 75.5 ounces.
Thanks
Eric

[Manfred]

Hi Eric,

We own both, the ZPacks Exo and the ZPacks Arc Blast. Both backpacks use the same bag on a different frame. The Exo was the predecessor of the Arc Blast. I'm using it for a couple of years now. Once ZPacks replaced the Exo with Arc Blast, my wife got the Arc Blast. She prefers that design as she loves to have a mesh panel that keeps her back from getting sweaty. My Exo has the 52 l bag and my wifes's Arc Blast has the 60 l bag. Both of us added two hip pockets and two shoulder pouches from ZPacks to our packs. The following list describes how we both pack our packs for the JMT.

Bottom of pack – 13 l drysack with sleeping bag and down jacket.
On top of sleeping bag all the way to right side – Bearikade Expedition
Space next to the bear canister – Sleeping pad (NeoAir xLite), tent (SMD Haven)
Top of Bearikade – 10 l drysack with clothes (long underwear, second socks and underwear, balaclava, gloves)
Left sidepocket of main bag – Caldera Keg-F Stove System (incl. stove, pot, mug, cup, Ti spoon, sparker) + 8 oz fuel bottel
Right sidepocket of main bag – TP/Trowel/Wash kit + Tenkara Pole
Left shoulder pouch – 20 oz bottle
Right shoulder pouch – 20 oz bottle (or camera as one bottle is mostly enough)
Left hip pocket – Camera (Canon Powershot SX 150)
Right hip pocket – SteriPen Freedom, headlamp (Zebra H51), personal first aid kit
Center mesh pocket – rain jacket, rain mittens, maps (in ziplock), ziplock with fishing stuff (flys, lines, tippet), DeLorme inReach
Left shoulder belt – GPS (etrex 30)
Outside/top of backpack – solar panel (PowerFilm USB+AA charger)

The Zpacks Arc Blast with the extra hip and shoulder pockets would save you around 3.5 lbs.

I hope this helps.

Manfred

[Doug Johnson]

Manfred,

Thank you so much for posting your trip. I'm currently in the planning stages of hiking the JMT with my oldest daughter this summer. She will be (hopefully) turning 14 at the top of Whitney to complete the walk. She's done a few overnights, but nothing as serious as this. I'm hoping she will stay motivated, and we have a pretty good fitness regimen to get her ready.

The hardest thing for me is to estimate how much mileage she can handle for that long of time. I'm thinking 12-15 miles a day would be about it, especially when we hit the passes. I'll probably start with some short mileage days in Yosemite, then build up from there.

Cheers,
Sponge

[Manfred]

Douglas,

Wow – celebrating your daughters 14th birthday on top of My. Whitney sounds way cool to me. I don't know how much time you have for backpacking the John Muir Trail. It sounds like you might have up to three weeks. We always planned three weeks with our kids and then let them more or less set the pace. Our (back then) 15 year old sons took 20 days. They slept in every morning and wouldn't get out of their sleeping bag before the sun was shining directly into their face. They also fished a lot more than their sisters on the later hikes. Our 13 year old daughter was similar to her brothers in her morning routine and we took 19 days. My wife and I learned really fast that it is not a good idea to wake a teenager up in the morning and make them go. Teenagers have a way to make you pay for that for the rest of the day. So for those two hikes we would basically fish every morning until our kids got up by themselves. With our two youngest daughters it was very different. They would wake up with the first bird, get straight out of their sleeping bag and ask us when we will go. They were always excited to go and see more. They finished the hike in 15 days.
So in a nutshell I would say let your daughter decide when to start in the morning; let her also decide the pace during the day and only encourage her to go longer in the evening when you are seriously falling behind.
The 12-15 miles you are targeting is very doable. Our kids would usually do 2 miles per hour including little breaks (for example to treat water). So if we got started at 9 am we did 6 miles by lunch. We would then have up to two hours lunch break for swimming, fishing, cooking, etc. From 2 pm to 5 pm we would cover another 6 miles and could make camp for the night. Our youngest daughters would easily do another 4 miles just by starting their day 2-3 hours earlier than their older siblings.

Have fun out there!

Manfred

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