Any new SPOT input/reviews?

[Greg Mihalik]

"An EPIRB is ship/water solution and very spendy…"

Pardon my math, but,

for five years –
McMurdo FastFind 210, from REI – $250
SPOT -$130 for the unit and $500 for the subscription = $630

"PLB's … are designed to give one bullet-proof message when you are in trouble…"

The FastFind continues to send GPS locations. If you move, Search and Rescue knows it.

"With SPOT's usage model, folks know pretty much where you are and how things are going all the time."

IF you have Tracking turned on. And IF Tracking is getting through. And IF you have enough batteries to keep it going (3 days per set under a 50% sky). Otherwise, a good trip plan left at home gets the job done.

"Like any other piece of gear, I am going to have to invest some time to make sure I know how it works – and that it is working (something you don't know with a PLB)."

Reading the Equipped to Survive review you could learn a lot –

"The self-test indicator is the flashing LED which will indicate a fresh battery (3 flashes), medium battery usage (2 flashes), minimum battery remaining (1 flash) and fail if the LED doesn’t flash.

"There is also a full GPS acquisition test…"

The self-test actually runs over 60 internal tests, according to McMurdo.

[Katy Anderson]

Sometimes these devices cause more worry than comfort to the folks at home.
Such as this situation going on right now http://forums.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=603107219;t=9991157757 .

[Jacob Avanzato]

I just got back from a solo week in the golden trout wilderness where i used a satellite phone made by globalstar, the same company that runs the satellites for the spot. the phone cost me 75 on ebay and theres a unlimited use (talk/receive texts/slow data) plan for 40 a month for a year so about 550 for the first year with the phone. thats a bit higher than the first year spot cost at 150 for the device, 100 for basic service, and most likely another 50-100 for extra functionality

The main drawback to globalstar phones is that there's spotty reception, however in the last couple years it has dramatically improved and in the sierras last week i was getting coverage probably 70% of the time.
When i had coverage i was able to make crystal clear calls with no perceptible lag time and receive texts instantly that people sent me. I'm working on getting the data connection functioning and that will just be icing on the cake.

It's definitely not for everyone and the spot does have its place but for me even with less than full coverage a globalstar satellite phone is a big step up for a little extra money.

[Zorg Zumo]

The Fastfind is a PLB, not an EPIRB.

If you have a heart attack or any accident rendering you unable to activate your PLB, NOBODY KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE. With SPOT's usage model of lots of messages, folks know where you are.

One read was from a guy who had over 100 hours on a set of batteries – he basically turned it on in the morning, (track mode) and turned it off in the evening. Day after day. He was using a 1st generation unit and never said how long the batteries really lasted. I don't see the problem with starting with a fresh set of batteries on a long trip.

Does the PLB test mode actually check that the transmitter works? With SPOT I can test the thing any time I want. Neither the PLB or SPOT can be 100% tested in the field unless you have cell coverage – in which case SPOT can be 100% tested.

[Zorg Zumo]

Yep, the gear doesn't eliminate the need to define what overdue means, etc. I think SPOT is actually better for this because the messaging system is simpler. I found this while snooping a site with a good read – this is how another guy set it up – https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/where-am-i

[David Chenault]

There are lots of good points to be made here. One which is too often overlooked is the possibility of a nervous friend, relative, or family member calling in an unneeded rescue due to missing points or their misinterpretation of existing points (if you get off course). Quite frankly, some folks are not trustworthy or calm enough to be on the email list.

[Greg Mihalik]

"The Fastfind is a PLB, not an EPIRB."

The FastFind 210 operates on the 406Mhz global satellite rescue system ensuring that your emergency signal can be sent to COSPAS SARSAT from anywhere in the world.

From the COSPAS SARSAT web page:

"There are three types of emergency beacons: 1) Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacons (EPIRBs) for maritime applications, 2) Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs) for aviation applications, and 3) Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs) for individuals in distress.

"NOAA, the U.S. Coast Guard, and the U.S. Air Force operate the COSPAS-SARSAT system in the United States." (Unlike SPOT which is a commercially operated system.)

[Nathan Hays]

Lots of comments about testing if the Spot is functional. But as far as I know, there is no way to tell if your message made it to the satellite. No way to know if your status or lack thereof has been misinterpreted at home base. That's why I bought an inReach.

[Greg Mihalik]

inReach – by DeLorme

Operates through the Iridium constellation of satellites (a commercial system).

Unit – $250
Activation – $20
Subscription – $120/year, and up

[Ken Thompson]

InReach? Not so fast there Greg, Have you read this?

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=64693

[Greg Mihalik]

Ken,
I'm not advocating it's use, only highlighting it infrastructure and cost.

But that is a Very interesting thread you referenced.

I'll hang with my sweet and simple FastFind, thank you.

[Nathan Hays]

"InReach? Not so fast there Greg, Have you read this?"

1-way versus 2-way. Different things. Much of this conversation here is about relying on the device in an emergency. 2-way is very, very different in the level of security. With SPOT, push a button and hope it went through – no feedback whether anyone heard you. With inReach, engage in a conversation with rescuers.

My take is that if you are willing to spend $100/yr for 1-way service, bump that to $120/yr and get 2-way. Prices for both go up as you add stuff, but basic-basic is only $1.67 more per month to be able to hold a text conversation. Really a no-brainer.

Or try a Globalstar satphone at $480/yr (offer only good until 6/30).

[Franco Darioli]

just got an "I'm OK" message from a Spot 2 on a bank of the Ottawa river.
looking at the map I would say that the location is spot on…
This particular Spot2 was purchased soon after they came out (and replaced the original Spot) and it has always worked .
Franco

[Mark Fowler]

Something worth considering but I don't have a definitive answer is the use of a PLB outside of the country of registration.

I have a SPOT 2 and it does what I want. It has only missed one OK message in over 5 months of actual use and that was in a heavily forested, steep sided valley on a N-S axis. I have used it Australia, in Europe and in North Africa. I know that the SPOT centre will contact the relevant rescue authorities according to the location of a SOS message.

My question is how does a PLB registered in the US or Australia work if activated in Europe, Africa etc? Who gets the message and how do they respond?

[David Thomas]

Derrick: I went with the ResQLink PLB by ACR Cobham after a long conversation with the electronics guy at the Anchorage Alaska REI. The small size and the better coverage, especially at high lattitudes were the deciding factors for me.

The last time I was glad I had it was 10 days ago when the fog settled into Lower Cook Inlet while in a small boat. The next time I go out with that guy, I'm bringing my own chart, gps, and compass. I don't like avoiding the rocks with the native maps app on my iPhone! -David

[David Thomas]

Here's a cut&paste from NOAA's website that was a helpful reminder for me of some of the reasons I wanted a PLB that used both systems:

What is the difference between a geostationary orbit and a low earth/polar orbit?
A satellite in a geostationary orbit is at an altitude of 22,300 miles (35,890 kilometers). The satellite moves in a circular orbit in the equatorial plane around the Earth at the same speed that the Earth rotates. Because of this, it appears to remain over a fixed point on the Earth's surface. This position is ideal for making uninterrupted observations of the weather or environmental conditions in a given area. This same principle allows it to monitor for 406 MHz distress beacons. However, satellites in geostationary orbit cannot see the polar regions of the world.

A low earth/polar orbit allow the satellites to observe the entire Earth's surface as it rotates beneath it. Most of these orbits are at an altitude of 500 miles (800 km) and take about 100 minutes to revolve around the earth. The sun-synchronous orbit is a special case of a polar orbit with inclination of 98.7 degrees, that precesses at exactly the required rate (~ 1 degree per day) to remain in the same local time plane as the Earth rotates around the sun. Satellites in polar orbit provide emergency beacon users with global coverage (including the Polar Regions).

Why are there two different satellite systems?
Each system has certain advantages that when combined provide a more responsive overall system.

What are the advantages of the Low Earth Orbiting Search and Rescue (LEOSAR) Satellites?
The LEOSAR satellites can compute a location for a 406 MHz emergency beacon using a method called “Doppler shift”. Computing a location using Doppler shift requires the satellite to be moving. The geostationary satellites cannot independently compute a location for a 406 MHz emergency beacon. The LEOSAR satellites also provide global coverage, including the Polar Regions, for 406 MHz emergency beacon detection.

What are the advantages of the Geostationary Search and Rescue (GEOSAR) Satellites?
While the GEOSAR satellites cannot provide an independent location of a 406 MHz emergency beacon they can provide near-instantaneous detection. The GEOSAR satellites provide a 46 minute mean time advantage over a LEOSAR satellite for first detection of a 406 MHz emergency beacon. However, the geostationary satellites cannot detect 406 MHz emergency beacons in the Polar Regions.

If a 406 MHz emergency beacon is equipped with a Global Position System (GPS) receiver, the digital message transmitted by the beacon can contain the GPS-generated position of the beacon.

[Don Abernathey]

The 406Mhz doppler shift accuracy is 1-3 nautical miles. The specified search area is 25 square miles.

[Greg Mihalik]

…which is why units that send a GPS derived location are sooooo nice.

Plus most units now put out a 121.5 MHz homing signal for close-in locates.

[Craig Rowland]

My thoughts after using a SPOT for almost two years with the tracking feature. This includes usage not only in North America, but up near the Arctic Circle of Scandinavia down to the southernmost tip of New Zealand:

1) It is fairly reliable in most weather. In heavy rain under forest canopy I sometimes find the tracking signals do not make it out as reliably. This is made worse if in a valley. However most of the time perhaps 90%+ of the tracking pings make it out just fine.

2) In a clear field I have never had a problem with the signal making it out, even in bad weather. When sending an OK message I always make sure I'm in a clearing before doing it and it is 100% reliable.

3) The tracking feature should not be discounted. It may be true that a PLB could possibly be more reliable under all weather, etc. However do not underestimate the idea that the SPOT device sends out a chain of bread crumbs constantly. A PLB needs to be activated by the end user. This is a big difference if you get injured/incapacitated and can't activate the PLB for help. At least the SPOT will give search teams a last known position.

4) I put the device in a water proof bag before mounting on my backpack to give it extra weather protection. I live in a rain forest area and don't trust anything electronic to be "water resistant."

5) The custom signal is nice because you can have a message in there to indicate delay. For instance mine says; "I'm OK but delayed, do not worry."

6) Educate the people tracking your OK messages. For the people watching me they know that if the tracking is showing movement during the day but they don't get an OK signal that they shouldn't worry.

7) I run mine during the day in tracking mode and send an "OK" message when I get to my camp at night. Then I shut it off. In this mode I get several weeks of usage with lithium batteries.

8) It's nice to have a track of where you hiked when you get back home to see what ground you covered.

Overall I like the device better than the PLB I use to carry. The ability to test the communication path before you head out is welcome, as is the tracking feature. Overall I'm satisfied with the unit and like it for solo hiking over a PLB.

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