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GoLite stores don’t take….cash?!?!


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  • #1867462
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    If handling cash is too much of a hassle, insecure, blah, blah, then perhaps you may want to reconsider running a business, especially a brick-and-morter one at that.

    +1 especially for the last part. Don't want to do cash, stay online.

    #1867466
    Aaron
    BPL Member

    @aaronufl

    Golite seems to be doing just fine (with plenty of business, especially here in Fort Collins). Chances are if you're shopping at the store, you have a debit card.

    Edit: I agree with Greg. Maybe this is just a generational thing and since I've grown up hardly using cash, I don't see it as much of a problem.

    #1867472
    Marc Eldridge
    BPL Member

    @meld

    Locale: The here and now.

    I remember in the 60's people saying that someday we wouldn't be using cash just little plastic cards.

    #1867611
    John D
    Member

    @johnd

    Locale: CO

    From the Fort Collins store today:

    I have to think this is just a marketing ploy for sustainability with a small possible financial reason. The handling of a cash POS and armored pickup, etc, have got to cost a little. Though I think almost all the folks in the market for relatively nice outdoors gear have no problem paying with a card, I'm pretty sure it's the same market that would prefer an option of paying that can't be followed by big brother.

    #1867622
    Lawson Kline
    BPL Member

    @mountainfitter

    I find it ironic that they printed "They are going paperless" on a piece of paper cardstock.

    I wonder if they give you a receipt for your purchase?

    With that said, to each business their own, but I hope all business don't follow this approach.. You think the banks have us by the balls now, Imagine if you had to use them to make every single purchase.. Talk about fee's…NO THANKS.. I like to keep my money safe and secure at the First Bank of Lawson : )

    #1867635
    Nigel Healy
    Member

    @nigelhealy

    Locale: San Francisco bay area

    funny, do GoLite do their creditcard too. The weight of the loyalty cards and creditcards exceeds the weight of the cash I carry. So hardly lightweight.

    I did a tour of southwest USA last week. The carpark at the Hoover Dam only took cash. I think everywhere else good creditcard but you have to carry your I.D.

    #1867642
    Stephan Doyle
    Member

    @stephancal

    @Nigel: "I think everywhere else good creditcard but you have to carry your I.D."

    All my cards do not have signatures, and instead explicitly state "SEE I.D." With that said, I present identification /maybe/ once a month.

    I often carry small amounts of cash (<= $20) for the few places that don't take a card or won't under a certain purchase amount (e.g. my local coffee shop, which often means I spend more when I buy a muffin out of necessity). I can't imagine walking into GoLite (or REI, etc) with $300 in cash for some new gear.

    #1867656
    Jeremy and Angela
    BPL Member

    @requiem

    Locale: Northern California

    Since this topic has been hammered out elsewhere on the Internets, here's a quick summation:

    1. Requiring ID for credit card purchases is dis-allowed except when:
    1a. a card is un-signed, in which case the card should be signed and matched against ID.

    2. "See I.D." cards are considered not signed, and may not be accepted.
    2a. Good luck arguing "see ID" is your signature. I'll let any lawyers in the room point out why this is unlikely to fly, should it ever need to be argued in court.

    3. Identify verification should only consist of matching the card signature against that on the signed receipt.

    Of course, as you all know, these rules are generally ignored by most merchants. My own take: I'm protected by the cardholder agreement, and the cashier doesn't need to see my ID (which if it's a driver's license, happens to have a home address on it).

    Finally, as noted, cash is legal tender for all debts, but a purchase only becomes a debt if payment is not required immediately. If you try carrying out the goods without the store agreeing to bill you later, it becomes shoplifting.

    Ref:
    1. http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf
    2. http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx

    #1914675
    Lynn D
    Member

    @lynnied1

    I just came from the GoLite store in Fort Collins. I was unaware of their "no cash" policy, and I have to say that I was a little irritated. I can appreciate all of the arguments mentioned here for safety, simplicity, sustainability, etc… from the businesses perspective. What I haven't seem mentioned is the adage that "the customer is always right."

    Living close to downtown Fort Collins, I often walk and usually do not carry credit or debit cards when I walk, although I may carry my ID and some cash – usually a $20 bill. I did walk today to do somethings downtown, and happened to go into the GoLite store, which I had never visited before. I did not intend to purchase anything, but found a t-shirt on the sale rack the total cost of which came to less than $20, AND I happened to have that amount of cash. (Often if I can pay for something with the cash I have on hand, I will do so.)

    I was taken aback and put off when the clerk went into great detail about all of the reasons that GoLite doesn't accept cash and then added what an inconvenience cash is for him…. Hmm! Well it's a bit of an inconvenience for me, as a customer, to pay with a credit card that has been overused, when I have the cash in my wallet.

    It's not as if the GoLite location in Fort Collins is in a particularly dangerous location, and they are not a convenience store, which may be more subject to robbery. The store is surrounded by all sorts of other retail establishments – all of which accept cash and credit, if not checks, and I suspect GoLite is not open into the wee hours of the night, as a bar or restaurant might be.

    Cash is still legal tender, and has been mentioned, not everyone has a credit card or can qualify for one, so this no cash policy seems discriminatory to me.

    #1914681
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    Speaking as a person who deals in cold cash for any over-the-counter transaction, I can say that the GoLite store has lost my business.

    If I deal in cold cash, it is very difficult to become overextended on money.

    Of course there is plastic, but I reserve it for online transactions as a convenience to me.

    –B.G.–

    #1914694
    John S.
    BPL Member

    @jshann

    The cash thing is old news. They don't want your counterfeit bucks..lol

    #1914702
    Dena Kelley
    BPL Member

    @eagleriverdee

    Locale: Eagle River, Alaska

    As a former business manager, I understand exactly why they made the decision they did. Cash presents an internal and external security issue (internal theft from employees, external robbery from criminals) as well as forces them to make daily deposits at the bank, most likely in person, and banks have gotten to the point where they charge fees for every dang thing. Plus they have to have change on hand, and guess what? Banks charge for change, also. Cash is a PITA.

    I deal almost exclusively with my credit card. I pay it off every month, but pay all my bills and purchases with the card. I find it inconvenient is a store doesn't take the card, but I respect that as their right as well. That's their decision not to pay the 3-6% in fees their credit card processing company charges them. Understandable, if inconvenient for me. There's one local sporting goods company that has lost business from me because they don't take cards. It's not a matter of vindictiveness but rather it's more convenient for me to drive a little further up the road and use my credit card than to make a separate stop at the bank for cash and then drive back to the sporting goods store. And yet that store has been around in this town my entire life and clearly they have a clientele that supports their decision to accept cash only.

    Vote with your feet and don't shop at Go-Lite if their policy bothers you.

    #1914704
    Tom Lyons
    Member

    @towaly

    Locale: Smoky Mtns.

    A Federal Reserve Note isn't a "dollar" anyway.
    A "dollar" is defined as a specific measure of gold or silver coin, which is NOT a Federal Reserve Note.

    Anyway, I won't buy any Golite products now, either in a store or online, due to this policy.
    They are free to institute this policy, and I am free to boycott their business.

    Thanks for bringing this Golite policy to my attention.

    #1914711
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Jeremy and Dena gave nice summaries from legal and management perspectives. Dena's experiences match my own in retail years ago, and I suspect the millenials aren't as practiced at cash handling, paperwork, and in many cases, math, as boomers were.

    In addition:

    I rack up major frequent flyer miles with >80,000 actual-butt-in-seat miles plus running almost all bills through the airline credit card. To the point where I get about 8 free round trips each year and I use them for family and friends (and, yes, I love you guys, but you're not THAT good of friends).

    But a point I haven't seen covered: privacy. Our recent thread on a tradegy of a young man perishing in the Bob Marshall Wilderness linked to news stories which describe law enforcement subpoenaing credit purchases down to the level of what beer was purchased. There was a tragic (and more pathological) case up here some years back when Safeway Club Card records were subpoenaed to show that the mother whose house burned down (with an accelerant) and who had recently purchased life insurance on her kids, also purchased a gasoline can at Safeway immediatley prior to the fire. (one kid died, the other jumped from a window and lived). In my life, I sometimes buy hundreds of pounds of fertilizer to kick-start the biological activity at a toxic waste site. Post-First-WTC-attack, I sometimes use cash so as to leave less of a paper trail.

    My complaint against GoLite and a reason they've lost several sales to me, is that they don't ship USPS, only UPS. Their choice, sure. But I gotta think USPS comes to their business every day like it does to mine so maybe they just can't be bothered or got a better rate from UPS by promising 100% of their business. But $37 second-day-air (there's no UPS surface to Alaska) instead of $14 USPS Priority on $100 of stuff loses the sale in my case. Sierra Trading Post is more flexible and last I looked at my account, I've dropped about $12,000 on them over the last 15 years.

    In the airline industry, Alaska and Southwest almost always make a profit, in part by making some hard-and-fast decisions – you WILL book on-line (essentially), all planes fly full, only one plane type (737), etc. Nordstrom's, REI and LL Bean take the reverse approach – largely, the customer is always right.

    #1914718
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    "But I gotta think USPS comes to their business every day like it does to mine so maybe they just can't be bothered or got a better rate from UPS by promising 100% of their business."

    Absolutely true. Some companies promise all of their normal shipping business to UPS. In return, they get a kickback or discount on the shipping rates. So, the customer invoice says that the shipping fee was $50, and the customer pays that. In reality, the company pays only $35 to UPS, and the missing $15 is pure profit from the pocketbook of the customer.

    That's why some customers ask who the carrier is, and if UPS is the answer, then the customer supplies its own UPS account number to the deal, and that way it is not paying the unnecessary $15 profit. Some companies are looking for ways to get around that situation and score the $15 profit anyway.

    Whenever I run across a company and I don't like their business methods, I find another company. That's something about a free market economy.

    –B.G.–

    #1914948
    Lynn D
    Member

    @lynnied1

    Your response is all fine and good from the perspective of the business (and more specifically from the perspective of the clerks and store managers), but from the consumer's perspective, those same things are not necessarily benefits. I do understand that we are moving toward a cashless society, and I don't think that is necessarily "evil." But I do NOT think that we are there yet, and it will be some time before we reach that point.

    I understand that it is the prerogative of the business to choose the how they want to deal with money, but I do think it's naive to believe that everyone can or will want to pay with a credit card.

    Here are just a few examples of those whose business GoLite might be losing:

    1) Someone who is trying to rebuild their credit and being very conscious of their credit card use by using cash.
    2) Someone who doesn't want their every move to be tracked via transactions that are recorded on a computer system. (This category may include people who are "off-the-grid" and who keep their money under their mattresses.)
    3) Kids or Teens who are not old enough to have credit cards, but are interested in outdoor activities, or who are shopping for gifts for their parents.
    etc.

    And here is a quoted section for an article by the Wharton School of Business about the Consumers' side of going cashless:

    "Convenience is arguably the biggest benefit to consumers when it comes to going cashless. No longer do they need to seek out a bank branch or ATM before going shopping. In fact, mobile payment applications have made it possible to complete a purchase without even having a credit card on hand. And paying with a card or smartphone comes with the convenience of having an electronic record of the transaction.

    But consumers often pay the price for such advantages. For one, there is greater temptation to overspend with a credit card since all purchases are "buy now, pay later". Additionally, stealing credit card or debit information is much simpler than taking cash from a person. "Your statement comes through every month, and you must examine it every month because you are always at risk of losing your credit card or someone getting your credit card number," says Jack Guttentag, a Wharton professor emeritus of international banking

    Going cashless has other, less immediately apparent financial liabilities. Nearly all pre-paid debit cards, for example, are embedded with activation and monthly maintenance fees. Even if you pay off your credit card every month to avoid finance charges, there is likely to be an annual fee, especially if you are part of a "points" promotion or some other bonus plan. Debit cards come with the danger of overdraft penalties. "Currency is free," notes Jeremy Tobacman, a Wharton professor of business and public policy. "It's a point that is easily forgotten, but it is not a trivial difference. In most forms of electronic transactions, there is some payment for the consumer."

    Banks and credit card companies have a vested interest in convincing consumers to convert to going cashless. In 2011, credit card issuers reported $154.9 billion of revenue, according to the credit card advisory firm R.K. Hammer. A separate study from the same firm said that in 2011, fee income surpassed interest income for all issuers of cards (including credit, debit and prepaid cards). Though down from previous years due to new federal regulations, overdraft fees totaled $31.6 billion in 2011, research firm Moeb Services reported.

    For banks, less consumer dependence on dollars and coins means greater potential to collect fee income, the likelihood of fewer people visiting bricks and mortar bank branches and a diminished need for staff to handle more intensive cash-based transactions. "For financial institutions, these various payment innovations are a source of profit," Guttentag says. "Cash is the least profitable [source of payment], and it's a lot of hassle."

    An added benefit to banks and retail businesses receiving electronic payments is that priceless customer data comes with each transaction. Shevlin suggests that businesses that have a record of all their customers' spending habits could then use it to their advantage. "Knowing how you spend your money helps marketers," he notes."

    http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=3017

    So the upshot is that your arguments are all from the perspective of the convenience of the business and the staff of that business, and not at all taking into account or acknowledging the hidden costs to the consumer. And having heard or read the same arguments from several people in this forum and from the GoLite clerk yesterday, I'm suspicious that you all are spouting the GoLite party-line, rather than really thinking for yourselves. (As a banking customer myself, I also have to say, that I have never been charged to deposit cash into my personal or business accounts, so perhaps GoLite should also find another bank, if they're being charged for cash deposits!)

    All that being said, my initial frustration with my transaction yesterday, was that it seemed as if by pulling out cash, I was looked down upon, given a lecture and made to feel as if I'm not "cool enough" or not an intelligent and environmentally responsible adult, merely because I wanted to keep from putting another charge (for less than $20) on my credit card. And it's offensive as a customer to be told that it would be easier for the clerk not to have to go to the bank at the end of the day, when he would rather go to the bar!

    Needless to say, I will not be shopping at GoLite again in the near future (though my individual protest is probably not going to change anything; it is my choice). I can order from Sierra Trading post, go to REI, frequent Jax, sew my own clothing, or shop my closet, etc. etc. etc.

    #1914952
    Tom Lyons
    Member

    @towaly

    Locale: Smoky Mtns.

    Any time a "business" makes rules that prevent itself from making sales, and they view their "policies" as more important than bringing money in the door, there is something very seriously wrong with the upper management.

    You don't turn paying customers away, if you plan to survive as a business. Especially in a challenging economic downturn.

    #1914963
    John S.
    BPL Member

    @jshann

    Can't wait to see their tents for next spring though.

    #1915039
    Dena Kelley
    BPL Member

    @eagleriverdee

    Locale: Eagle River, Alaska

    Lynn D- You should probably send your thesis into GoLite, it's well researched, but it doesn't change my initial point- vote with your feet. If GoLite loses enough business over their "no cash" policy, they will change it. However, I seriously doubt they will much business over it. Most consumers do have a non-cash option of paying for a purchase. The bottom line is that most ATM cards have the Visa logo on them and are accepted like credit cards, so even someone who is rebuilding their credit, irresponsible about their use of credit cards, or too young to have a credit card can still use their debit card to make a purchase. I would suspect it's something less than 1% of GoLite's target customers who only have cash available and do not have a debit card or a credit card. Even those people have the option of using a reloadable credit card. I think people who truly like GoLite's products will find a way to make the purchase. I've made purchases for people before with my credit card when they needed it, and they gave me cash to do so. The off-the-grid types are often more into paramilitary type gear for when the stuff-hits-the-fan rather than ultralight gear, so I don't really think they are a target group for GoLite anyway. Still, it wouldn't hurt to send your opinion to GoLite and tell them why you won't be patronizing them any longer.

    #1915046
    W I S N E R !
    Spectator

    @xnomanx

    "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."
    Revelation 13:17

    So who would have thought GoLite would be one of the first? Strange times are upon us indeed.

    #1915158
    Dena Kelley
    BPL Member

    @eagleriverdee

    Locale: Eagle River, Alaska

    Was it really just a matter of time before someone compared a single company not accepting cash as a sign of the Apocalypse? BTW, GoLite wasn't first. 20 years ago I tried to give Merrill Lynch cash for my account and they wouldn't accept it. So I guess the Apocalypse started a long time ago.

    #1915170
    Wes Kline
    Member

    @weskline

    Locale: Adirondacks

    C'mon, everyone knows the Antichrist wears Patagonia, not Golite.

    #1915241
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "C'mon, everyone knows the Antichrist wears Patagonia, not Golite."

    Does not! He wears Arc'teryx. Patagucci is so last year.

    #1915246
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    Sounds like it's time to follow John Prine's advice:

    She was a level-headed dancer on the road to alcohol
    And I was just a soldier on my way to montreal
    Well she pressed her chest against me
    About the time the juke box broke
    Yeah, she gave me a peck on the back of the neck
    And these are the words she spoke

    Chorus:
    Blow up your t.v. throw away your paper
    Go to the country, build you a home
    Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
    Try an find jesus on your own

    Well, I sat there at the table and I acted real naive
    For I knew that topless lady had something up her sleeve
    Well, she danced around the bar room and she did the hoochy-coo
    Yeah she sang her song all night long, tellin' me what to do

    Repeat chorus

    Well, I was young and hungry and about to leave that place
    When just as I was leavin', well she looked me in the face
    I said "you must know the answer."
    she said, "no but I'll give it a try."
    And to this very day we've been livin' our way
    And here is the reason why

    We blew up our t.v. threw away our paper
    Went to the country, built us a home
    Had a lot of children, fed 'em on peaches
    They all found jesus on their own

    #1915256
    Pete Staehling
    BPL Member

    @staehpj1

    The notion that anyone can't get plastic is absurd. If all else fails they can use a prepaid card. They are readily available and require no credit check.

    As far as the poor not having plastic… I have met a number of homeless folks on my bicycle tours who used plastic. In many (most? all?) jurisdictions various public assistance programs use a debit card.

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