Packing vs Thermos

[Kevin Lane]

Anyone think that forming an "insulated cylinder" inside a pack with perhaps a sleeping bag and Reflectic material, or perhaps a survival blanket, would work as good as a thermos in keeping bottles warm?

[Stephen Eggleston]

Anything that provides dead air space or that reflects heat radiation will insulate your bottles. Finding the right setup depends on your personal preferences and needs. Even stuffing a bottle into the middle of you pack will provide thermal insulation. Of course you could also get fancy and wrap things in reflective mylar and high loft insulation. You could also make a bottle cozy out of aluminized insulation or buy one from anti-gravity gear here: http://www.antigravitygear.com/store/index.php?cPath=3_13

[Kenneth Knight]

Stephen has already made some good points. I've shoved hot water into the depths of my pack and surrounded it with insulation and it has stayed nice and warm for quite some time.

I've also used insulated bottle holders like those sold by Outdoor Research and they work fairly well too and have the added advantage of keeping the bottle accessible for drinking which is a big plus. Using an insulated hose with a water bladder in your pack also works pretty well – just make sure you keep the bite valve clear of liquid so it does not freeze.

But, if wieght is not a concern I still think nothing beats a good old classic vacuum bottle. Granted for ultralight travel this is not usually a viable option, but their have been times I've envied people with their thermo of coffee or hot chocolate on a frigid day hike when all I had was my platy with cooling water.

[Eric Parsons]

The Aluminized bubble wrap really dosent last very long at all when getting thrown around inside a pack. I've tried it a few times. It works, but is a disposable piece for sure. I'm looking at butchering some old wetsuits and making some neoprene cozzies to supplement the OR ones I have.

[Brett .]

my 2 cents.. neoprene has an R value of .15 to .45 /inch and is much more durable, reflextix is about 2.38 /inch, and is lighter of course. If someone made a double wall titanium thermos I would certainly carry one in the winter!

[Joshua Gilbert]

I think Brett has touched on the holy grail of thermoses, the Ti double wall. I've actually found myself daydreaming about this item ("wouldn't it be awesome if they made a ti thermos….")
I haven't actually done the math on this, but I wonder if carrying a lightweight stove might actually be the better option than a thermos, seeing as how some of the ultralight kits weigh next to nothing, of course then you would have to stop and brew up if you wanted something hot, at which point you would start getting cold, etc.
I used to carry a stove with me when I went on dayhikes and cook lunch and make coffee with it, but I think that was mostly because I just thought the stove was so freakin' cool. Now I carry a thermos (humdrum stainless I'm afraid)

[Roger Caffin]

> neoprene has an R value of .15 to .45 /inch and is much more durable,
Very heavy stuff. Very. Try hunting around for some EVA30 closed cell foam: good insulation and much lighter. EVA20 or EVA 15 even, IF you can find it.

> If someone made a double wall titanium thermos I would certainly carry one in the winter!
Glamorous, but not much different from a stainless steel one.
You see, there are three heat-loss paths here: through the vacuum (not affected by the metal), through the stopper (not affected by the metal), and through the thin metal wall at the neck of the flask. SS and Ti are not much different in thermal conductivity, and I question whether you would find the Ti wall much thinner than an SS wall, so the heat loss here is not really all that large. Add to that the fiendish cost of forming Ti into that shape …

My wife and I LIKE our morning tea stop with a stove and kettle.

[Michael Martin]

>> If someone made a double wall titanium thermos I would certainly carry one in the winter!

I happen to have just such an amazing device! It's made by Nissan and weighs 8.4oz. It's not as light as, say, an esbit stove and beer can pot. But, for a shot of hot chocolate during a snowshoe day trip, it's hard to beat the convenience. :-)

Cheers,

-Mike

[Joshua Mitchell]

Nissan Titanium Thermos

Wow Mike, thanks for the heads up…

Oh, and FYI for everyone, Guyout is planning an addition to their SS "Nalgene-size" water bottles to include a double wall line.

It's a bit off track, but I've been thinking about one of the guyots (non double wall) as a double duty water bottle / boiling pot…

[Brett .]

..but there is a catch, it is about $120.
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/hab/837953/837971/#760607
Any FL takers?
Michael, bet you didn't know your gem was worth so much overseas?

[Michael Martin]

Mine was a gift from my wife several years ago. I never realized, as Roger would say, "the fiendish cost". I think she deserves an extra hug for that one. ;-)

[Joshua Gilbert]

Wow, when I got up this morning and checked my e-mail it was like christmas came early. Steep price though. Here's a breif transcript of my wife and I discussing this:
Me: They make a titanium thermos
Wife: That's nice.
Me: We gotta get one!
Wife: Don't we have like, four thermoses?
Me: Yeah, but this one is TITANIUM!
wife: How much does it cost?
Me: Uh, I think it weighs like 8 ounces.
Wife: Not the weight penalty, the financial one.
Me: Like(mumble inaudibly)
Wife: What?
Me: Like 130$?
Wife: You have officially lost your mind.
Me: But it's TITANIUM!
She left after that. Maybe she went to buy me one for valentines day.

[Steve .]

Or left for good!

You should have bought the thermos, put roses in it, and gave it to her for VD. That way you please her and get your thermos to ;-)

[Joshua Gilbert]

She'd see right through that one, it'd be like Homer Simpson giving Marge a bowling ball (although the flowers might leaven it a bit)

[Dale Wambaugh]

I'm a drummer and percussionist and I make an instrument from the old corrugated aluminum thermos bottles. They also happen to be one of the lightest options for carrying hot liquids. You will find one size that holds a quart and a smaller pint size. I find mine at garage sales and thrift stores for $2-$5 each. You will find them on Ebay once in a while, but the prices are higher. If you find one with a broken liner, email me as I throw away the liners to make the instrument.

[Joshua Gilbert]

I had one of those a long time ago, and when I set my pack down (dropped it on a concrete floor actually) the glass liner just shattered.

Dale, do the ones you are finding have a screw top or a cork? (mine was corked) and might you be willing to part with one?

Brett, you seem to have the inside track on these in Japan, do they still make them? or can you only find them used?

[Dale Wambaugh]

Sure, contact me at dwambaugh at yahoo dot com.

Most of the ones I find are the screw top ones. I have a spare one pint that weighs about 12 ounces.

[Anonymous]

Hi there !

Does anyone know if the Ti Thermos is produced again ? I heard a rumour…

Or where one could be found ?

Thanks,

Max

[twig .]

It's back

http://www.lelong.com.my/Auc/List/2010-02DeSale28993443_AUCTION_-THERMOS-Super-Compact-Titanium-Bottle-FEB-500T.htm

[Andrew Shapira]

At 8 oz. of thermos weight to hold 16 fluid ounces, this looks interesting (out of stock):

NOLS 16 oz. Stainless Steel Vacuum Canister

[Paul Stupkin]

Has anyone tried this range from thermos:

http://www.thermos.com/SubCategoriesCatalog.aspx?CatCode=ELE5&SubMenuID=0

I have several vacuum flasks and the one from thermos is the best. The one I take on winter trips is small and convenient but pretty useless as heat only lasts about 4 hours.

P.

[Andrew Shapira]

The REI Bullet has done well for me during day trips. At 13 ounces of weight it's a bit heavier than I'd like.

Does anyone have experience with the Urban Elements 0.35L Pop Top Thermos? Weight is 7.4 ounces. (The BPL forum software keeps eating my attempt to hyperlink to one at mec.ca. Maybe the URL is too long for the forum software's liking.)

I looked around some for a spherical thermos, since a sphere minimizes the amount of surface area for a given volume, a characteristic useful for reducing both weight and thermal conduction. I didn't see anything that looked suitable for hiking, although I did find a patent that expired in the early 2000s, so maybe someone will make one now.

[Paul Davis]

All: Here in the Canadian North West we all have thermos mugs for daily water bottles. Bigger thermoses are more thermally efficient, as are those with a narrow mouth, so we pour out hot water into insulated mugs to make hot drinks etc and keep narrow-necked thermoses clean.

If you can, make a super-insulated cap out of styrofoam etc, then pack the bottle upside down (!not for the leak-fearful!) as heat rises to the near-perfect insulation of the base of the thermos. Ditto for water bottles; upside down, ice forms at the base where it won't block the mouth of the bottle….remember to pre-heat the thermos bottle by adding hot water, capping and waiting, then re-using that slightly cooler water for tea or whatnot, and pour in boiling water…

[Dave Jacobs]

For many years I have always had a problem with water containers in cold weather months. After over 50 years of the same problem, and having tried about everything I could find, or had heard about, I finally found something that seems to work just fine. The U.S. Army has a quart canteen for arctic use. It is designed for freezing cold climate, and does keep water liquid, instead of frozen. You can even get a cup, and a carrier for the pistol belt for it.

I managed to pick up two of these, plus cups, that were brand new, and still in the package of the manufacturer. I also have the case to carry them on a belt. They also have a shape that is flatter/wider than the typical canteen so that it will fit well inside a pack. Since they are for arctic use, they even have a rubber mouthpiece to drink directly from them.

The shape is much like the army two quart canteen, and it might be using the cup for that two quart model. They are a double walled, insulated canteen, and do work quite well when worn on a belt in freezing weather. By no means is the water warm that way, but it does not freeze. At least, not in any of my usage of winter camping, and overland travel.
I managed to find these two for a cost of only $15 each for the works.

If anyone would like images of this system, I could send some, but would first need to make some as I can't seem to find the ones I had before.

[Jeffrey Kuchera]

I have had pretty good results keeping canned beer cold and a nalgene of coffee hot for at least as long as three hours by just rolling it into my sleeping pad and plugging up both ends with some extra clothing. Score points for multiple use gear since you are carrying a sleeping pad anyway. Of course this won't fly if your pad is your framesheet in your pack.

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