Ursack closer to being allowed in Yosemite?

[Ben F]

Don't know if you guys saw the update last week:

http://www.ursack.com/ursack-update.htm

Is there a comprehensive list of where the Ursack is and isn't allowed? Or is just the King Range etc.. where it's not allowed? Or Yellowstone as well?

[Hiking Malto]

Hopefully this tesing will be completed and the Ursack approved by the start of the summer hiking season. This whole affair has been foolish.

[Matthew Zion]

+1 that the testing and approval is quick. I'm glad I haven't bought a canister yet — I'd much rather carry one of these.

[Ben F]

I'd really like to buy one as well. This might be the one time I abuse the REI return policy–buy a Bearvault and return it if/when the Ursack is approved again. There's got to be a lot of pent-up demand for these. They're a clearly superior product in terms of weight, and no worse it seems in terms of failing.

[Stephan Doyle]

Wasn't there hope of this last year, too?

I'm cautiously NOT going and selling my BearVault quite yet.

[EndoftheTrail]

I own an Ursack. And I would certainly be delighted if the thing gets approved at Yosemite, etc. — but only if that approval comes without the need for the stupid aluminum liner! While sack + liner together is still lighter than many hard plastic bear vaults, the difference isn't all that much. And it's a nuisance wrestling that liner in (or out) of the ursack.

[a b]

Let's see.. should I carry my 3 lb BearVault 500 through the Sierra or my 8 ounce Ursack?
I SO hope they approve the Ursack!
I agree GG Man, the whole thing has been ridiculously mis-handled.
If an Ursack passes the same test as a hard sided container then it should be approved. Pretty simple really.
Now that as of tomorrow morning I am back in the Plumbing/construction trade again I might actually be able to afford an Ursack.
Oh yes.. Yes I did! :)

[USA Duane Hall]

Matt, seems my old green, original Ursack weighs 5 oz, the insert is around 11 oz. I'm away from home, so can't check my sheet or reweigh it.
Duane

[Ken Thompson]

Redwood National Park does not allow them either.

[EndoftheTrail]

Duane:

My green ursack plus line is weighs 22oz.

[a b]

Ursack S29 All White 7.3 ounces
Aluminum liner 10.8 ounces
Odor Proof sack 12X20 inches 1 ounce
There is also a .25 ounce tube of seam grip to be applied to the seam of the ursack.
So total weight of 19.35 ounces in the "maximum" protection mode.

[James Castleberry]

2 lbs 9 oz. I have a season pass and hike in Yosemite as often as I can, but the worst part is lugging my BV 500. I've considered bearikade, bareboxer, BV450, etc., but this Ursack would be great.

[Jason G]

+1 on the excited and optimistic this will be approved by summer. It would be a bummer if the liner was required because I hate the bulkyness of bear cans and that would remain with the liner. I wonder if ursack will raise their prices if it gets approved.. they are surly gunna get a flood of orders

[Ken Thompson]

Need to get me some seamgrip.

[Ben F]

Anyone know if the Ursack is approved for the Winds? If it is, I'll just buy one now.

[a b]

I am not aware of any restrictions on food storage in the Wind River Range. If I recall correctly there was just a wooden post near the southern entrance where i filled out a permit. Personally i just slept on top of my food through there but i do not recommend you do the same.
However here is a trick i did use in the Winds above treeline. I found a pile of boulders and using my trekking pole I stuffed my food sack deep into a crevice between the boulders. An adult bear would not be able to fit inside there or reach the sack with it's paw. Of course a marmot or mouse could still get the food in there.
I did this once in the Winds near Shannon pass.
Everywhere else i just slept right on top of my food sack which was wrapped up in a large garbage compactor bag and covered in my stinky shirt.
You could of course be mauled using this approach to food storage so YMMV.
Here is what the terrain looks like in the Winds:
.
.
There aren't too many suitable trees to hang from. The Ursack would be better than my silly approach of sleeping on the food. Assuming you can find something to tie the Ursack off to. Otherwise stuff it into a crevice beyond the reach of a bear.

[USA Duane Hall]

Thanks Ben, that's about what I recall for my set, 20-21 oz. Fortunately when I last used my Ursack legally out of Mammoth, the Backcountry Ranger had no ideer how it was to be deployed. I gave her my email addy but never heard from her as I only had my sack tied to a tree and she thought it had to be tied in a tree like a bear hang. She was working with a small crew, redoing fire pits, making the Ranger fire pit, using three rocks, I thought they were neat and would cut back on large campfires.

Matt, I took my Bearicade when I visited the Winds two summers back, gotta go back. Your pic is some of what I saw too. I brought my canister because of ole man grizz.
Duane

[Hikin’ Jim]

Man! That would be cool if the Ursack were finally approved. I hate bear canisters, particularly the Garcia ones.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Bradley Danyluk]

Has it really been that mis-handled, though? When you look in detail, there are a pretty incredible number of reports of the Ursack being breached. I own one, but would never tie it at ground-level like they recommend, or bring it into regions that require canisters. At the very least your food is pulverized and inedible after an attack, which ends your trip. At worst it developed a hole (heard a few reports of this) under attack and the bear squeezed and ate out of the hole.

[Ben Wortman]

What is the deal with seam grip and the Ursack? I bought one 2 years ago (all white one) and have not heard that you need to use seam grip at all.

Can someone explain this to me? Is it recommended or is there a specific reason it is needed?

Thanks

Ben

[Ken Thompson]

Improves tear resistance along the seam. Upgrade. I have to do mine too.

[Ben F]

Well, they detail the known cases of failure:

Even when the S29 AllWhite has been used without the aluminum liner (which is how most campers prefer it), the number of bears that have gotten food rewards in the last three years is miniscule. In 2011 a bear tore a seam at 1000 Island Lake. There was one instance of seam failure in Colorado and another at South Lake Tahoe. In 2010, there was a seam torn by a bear in the Desolation Wilderness, and a minor tear at Mammoth. In 2009, a bear tore a seam at Lake Ediza in Inyo and another bear ripped into an Ursack at Kearsarge Lake. In short, other than the seam failures, even unlined Ursacks have performed well over the last three years. As you know, no bear canisters are perfect. All have failed on occasion.

And then they go on to say that even that small amount can be reduced using a new method

The seam issue has now been resolved. This fall, while testing the S29 AllWhite Hybrid at the Grizzly Discovery Center in West Yellowstone (where the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee tests bear canisters), we discovered that coating the seams with SeamGrip was highly effective. A very large grizzly worked on Ursack for 2 hours without success, which contrasted with an earlier test of a bag with an uncoated seam. As a result, since October, all new Ursacks come with SeamGrip.

Doesn't seem like a huge issue to me, unless there are tons of cases not listed here.

[Randy Martin]

"Has it really been that mis-handled, though? When you look in detail, there are a pretty incredible number of reports of the Ursack being breached. I own one, but would never tie it at ground-level like they recommend, or bring it into regions that require canisters. At the very least your food is pulverized and inedible after an attack, which ends your trip. At worst it developed a hole (heard a few reports of this) under attack and the bear squeezed and ate out of the hole."

All Ursack has ever asked for is to establish a clear set of standards so they know what the requirements for approval are. The mishandling refers to this lack of clear objective standards of approval.

The aluminum liner prevents crushing of any contents if used. Although the last I checked crushed dehydrated food does not make it inedible and does not end your trip.

[Ben Wortman]

Ok, what is everyone doing to "store" their Ursack when out overnight? In the Winds, I had to hang it from boulders or rock walls. While in areas with trees, I have tried to hang it in trees. Assuming that there are no canister laws in the area, if I am always going to hang it, what is the benefit of using the 8oz Ursack vs a 2oz food bag. I can see that a benefit could be small critter control such as marmots during day trips where I would leave the food back at camp. The Ursack is also not waterproof, where certain food bags are.

On my last trip I said the heck with it and just tied it off to the base of a tree. Is this a common tactic? I have heard tying it off at the base of a tree is better than trying it off a few feet above the ground so the bear cannot use his weight to try to tear into it.

Thoughts??

[Chris C]

I always just tied it off to a tree, I'm pretty sure you are not supposed to hang it traditionally because that adds risk of injury to the bears.

this is from ursack's website
http://www.ursack.com/propper-hang.htm

I will add the "above treeline" image is ridiculous, a bear would simply pick up the small log and walk off with it and your food.

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