Andrew Skurka’s The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Book Review

[Andrew Skurka]

Yes, eVent is covered in the book, as part of the discussion about WP/B fabrics. I spent a lot of time researching this topic and spent many pages discussing it, but of all the things I said, I think there are two sentences that summarize my thoughts best:

"In my opinion, the performance of WP/B shells has been greatly oversold — the product category name, "waterproof-breathable", is itself an oxymoron. My real-world experience is that they fail to keep me dry during prolong storms, or even during short storms if the fabric has been compromised by dirt, body oils, and /or abrasion, which is unavoidable on a long trip."

So while eVent may be marginally more breathable and/or waterproof than other fabrics such as Gore-Tex, I would still encourage you to be realistic about its limitations. When it's when outside, expect to get wet, and find other tools and techniques (e.g. fleece and fire-starting) that will enable you to thrive in those conditions.

[Jerry Adams]

It seems like eVent has a better DWR coating – water beads up on the outside surface better than other fabrics

All of the focus is on the membrane, but maybe the DWR coating is what people should look at

[David Ure]

No – EVent breathes much better than any other WP fabric out there. My experience is from using it on tents, bivvies, gaiters, and jackets.

[Erin McKittrick]

Andrew, have you ever tried the Dermizax fabric? Only place I've ever seen it is from Alpacka raft, where Sheri was playing around with experimental hiking drysuits. I agree with you about raingear in general (and the fleece – we've been wearing powerstretch fleece suits as a baselayer in wet conditions for many years), but Dermizax really is better than most shells. Like any WPB fabric, it'll wear out and you'll get wet, but we've found it to be light years better in maintaining waterproofness than GoreTex, eVent, and other similar fabrics. Not that that helps anyone, really, since it's impossible to get a hold of.

Minimalist shoes. Hig and I did try that experiment on our 2-month Malaspina Glacier expedition with some Merrel trail gloves and some Innov8 shoes. Our feet did fine. The shoes were constantly getting torn. They felt nice to wear, but we'd never have made it to the end of the trip if Hig hadn't darned the shoes several times where they were getting giant holes.

[Randy Martin]

"It seems like eVent has a better DWR coating – water beads up on the outside surface better than other fabrics"

eVent and Goretex have an outer layer of Nylon typically. This layer protects the membrane and the DWR is applied to that. So eVent doesn't have a better DWR coating, that's up to the maker of the final garment and what DWR they apply to the exterior face fabric.

[Andrew Skurka]

The spraydeck on my Alaska-Yukon raft was WP/B, so perhaps it was the Dermizax fabric, not sure. It performed well in that application, but I would be reluctant to extrapolate that to other applications where the fabric is subject to more abrasion, sweat, body oils, etc. As an earlier poster said, the problem is not so much with the membranes of WP/B fabrics but with the DWR finish, which is the Achilles heel. The DWR craps out quickly and, once it does, I find that breathability completely stops (because the exterior shell fabric is soaked, so there is no where for the water inside the shell to go) and water may actually start moving into the fabric (because it more humid outside the shell than inside).

[Jerry Adams]

"DWR finish, which is the Achilles heel."

Is there anything you can do to restore DWR

Isn't the DWR applied by the fabric manufacturer, not the clothing sewer

[Andrew Skurka]

Use Revivex. Put it in the dryer. Take an iron to it. All that helps but it is a bandaid solution.

I would think that the fabric supplier would deliver the entire fabric with its exterior fabric and DWR, but maybe someone else can confirm.

[Randy Martin]

"DWR finish, which is the Achilles heel." Is there anything you can do to restore DWR
Isn't the DWR applied by the fabric manufacturer, not the clothing sewer

The manufacturer does initially provide a DWR finish which is normally good for a number of washes. Grangers and others make DWR products you can apply yourself aftermarket. You need to wash your garments periodically using a product specified for technical garments (Grangers makes one). The DWR is typically re-applied right after washing but before drying. It is sprayed on.

Andrew is right on in his criticism of WPB garments in general. If the DWR is compromised then the sweat vapor cannot pass through the saturated outer layer, however, the membrane will still prevent water penetration from the outside. That, however, doesn't help much if you are working hard and sweating (I.e. wet from the inside).

I would also add that the relative humidity is an important element. Outside the Rockies the Relative Humidity tends to be so high already that evaporation is greatly compromised and further degrades performance of these garments. In those cases, if it's not too cold then you are probably better off to have a quick drying layer on and just deal with being wet knowing you will dry out quickly.

[James holden]

the only way to fly …

look up OR's torso flo system … youll never go back to anything else ;)

that and a light fleece …

[Chris Jones]

"In my opinion, the performance of WP/B shells has been greatly oversold — the product category name, "waterproof-breathable", is itself an oxymoron. My real-world experience is that they fail to keep me dry during prolong storms, or even during short storms if the fabric has been compromised by dirt, body oils, and /or abrasion, which is unavoidable on a long trip."

So, if I am to correctly understand what you are saying, it's the "B" of the WP/B equation that is failing, not necessarily the "WP". In other words, it's your own perspiration that is making you wet, as opposed to any direct outside precipitation.

"As an earlier poster said, the problem is not so much with the membranes of WP/B fabrics but with the DWR finish, which is the Achilles heel. The DWR craps out quickly and, once it does, I find that breathability completely stops (because the exterior shell fabric is soaked, so there is no where for the water inside the shell to go) and water may actually start moving into the fabric (because it more humid outside the shell than inside)."

By "moving into the fabric" you mean, wetted out, correct? Or are you saying that the water actually moves past the WP membrane? I assume that it's not the membrane that is failing, but would like to clairify.

"Andrew is right on in his criticism of WPB garments in general. If the DWR is compromised then the sweat vapor cannot pass through the saturated outer layer, however, the membrane will still prevent water penetration from the outside. That, however, doesn't help much if you are working hard and sweating (I.e. wet from the inside)."

If it's true that it's just the DWR failing and not the membrane, then I guess that's where pit zips come in handy. Of course everyone hikes their own hike, but personally I would also adjust my pace to prevent overheating. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying the solution. I've only done a week at most with tens of miles, not months at a time with hundreds, thousands of miles.

[Andrew Skurka]

I think it's a failure of the WP and the B. Here's how:

The functionality of the fabric is dependent on relative humidity levels. Moisture will move from the side of higher humidity towards the side of lower humidity. For example, if it's really humid inside the jacket and it's really dry outside the jacket, then moisture will pass through the fabric from inside to outside.

Once the DWR craps out, which is will, then my experience is that the fabric stops being both WP or B.

B. Moisture saturates the exterior fabric, creating an effective outside humidity level of 100%. The moisture inside the jacket will not pass through the fabric, so it builds up inside.

WP. If it's 100% humidity outside, and less than 100% inside, moisture will move through the membrane inside the jacket. There is nothing special about the fabric that prevents two-way movement of moisture.

[Nick Brown]

Andrew,

What are your thoughts about Paramo fabrics and something like Rab's Vapour Rise? They have a dwr and will obviously wet out in heavier conditions but, if I understand correctly, will act to pump the moisture out as there is no membrane. It seems these might be better than a wpb because they are actively trying to remove moisture rather than containing it through condensation build up?

[Andrew Skurka]

Haven't tried either material but I would like to. Chris Townsend has great things to say about Paramo.

[wander lust]

there are quite a few threads about it on bpl.

note that paramo is usually too warm for anything warmer than 40 F.
And it can also wet out in heavy rain if the jacket hasn't been washed and or reproofed in a while. it can keep you warm in those conditions though. so, it might not be the best choice for really long trips in wet conditions. a lot of people love it and it should work brilliantly on long trips when you only encounter snow.

I would really like to hear more about dermizax, it has been improved over the last few years and it works in a different way. Not many people use it though.

I started a new thread about Dermizax here, so let's not get too off topic here.

[Inaki Diaz de Etura]

Chris, what you mention may help but it's not a solution, I don't think there's such thing other than what Andrew says about accepting getting somewhat wet. I take is as fact: backpacking in long-lasting rain, a membrane will leave you wet. Humidity source (inside or outside) is not that important; I guess it's mostly from inside but I also think water has this ability to find its way if you give it time so at the end of the non-stop rainy day you're wet and it's probably coming both ways.

Membranes are diverse: there are monolithic (ie, solid) membranes where what Andrew said about reversed moisture transfer probably happens, maybe not, but those membranes anyway are the most resistant to transfer (breath little) so it's probably more about inside humidity. Porous membranes breath better and are also more prone to water penetration from outside with use (dirt, body oils) having a known effect on this.

Whatever the membrane, there's a wide area that's not gonna breathe because it's covered by the pack and we get wet there. Pit zips may help but I don't think they can do much. Adjusting the pace helps too, as it does stopping under cover, if at all possible, and try to vent internal moisture for a few minutes. Or using an umbrella, if at all possible, to allow for much more direct ventilation than pit zips would allow (front torso and head).

Sometimes everything is dripping wet. We cannot expect to be the only dry thing around. Getting wet is part of the deal.

[James Marco]

I believe that Andrew has this correct. All of the WP/B fabrics are designed to withstand light moisture at the expense of breathability. The materials involve will all work in BOTH directions, soo, they don't really work. Wet from rain, wet from perspiration. Either way, you get wet. And forget anything that involves a high degree of external moisture. Trying to use a WP/B shell in fairly cold conditions with 100% humidity means you WILL get wet. They simply do not vent quickly enough. Water builds up quickly, from the inside, while you hike.

I have tried a few, they never worked for me. Here in the ADK's they always get me wet after a few hours…good for a quick day hike. Or, maybe for shedding snow. Fleece works almost as well and stays warmer when you do start wetting out. It does not prevent moisture from prenetrating, but the fabric "body" is better protected from mist and rain. Once that fabric is wet, the WP/B stops. But there is enough stiffness to the fleece to still maintain insulation, wet or dry. And, because of the PET base fabric, it does not absorb moisture, soo, it dryes a bit quicker when given the chance. I've hung my fleece and watched water run out of it when wet and fairly clean. The biggest down side is it doesn't last a long time. One, maybe two seasons is about it. But, hey…they are cheeep. One trick is to stretch them out on a table and brush one side for a couple minutes with a stiffer hair brush. Then turn them inside out and repeat the process. This will hold the fleeciness out and keep the fleece (combed and pulled at the factory) from getting tangled and matted.

Andrew, Good Book, Thanks!

[Pete Garcia]

Great book, but ironically heavy, thinking about trimming off the covers & table of contents!

[Chris Jones]

I was wondering, is there any mention of the usage of bivy bags in the book? I know that the review stated that Andrew prefers tarps, but still I would like to know if this particular gear item is mentioned/addressed as a shelter option.

Also, given light of the performance (well, failure) of WP/B jackets, and considering that many bivys are constructed from the same fabrics as jackets (Gore-Tex, eVent, etc.), I would be interested in reading/hearing Andrew's insight on the subject.

[Luke Schmidt]

He likes to use water resistant (but not WP/B) bivies under his tarps. He does not care for stand alone WP/B bivies (too muggy, not comfortable in rainy weather etc). Come to think of it I dont' think very many people here ever use WP/B bivies.

[David Ure]

"Come to think of it I dont' think very many people here ever use WP/B bivies."

I do and Ryan Jordan does. Otherwise, you may be correct.

[Chris Jones]

"Come to think of it I dont' think very many people here ever use WP/B bivies."

I think the Integral Designs' eVent bivies, Mountain Laurel Designs' eVent bivies, as well as some non-eVent bivies (Mont-Bell) have a loyal following here. As for whether they are used strictly as stand-alone bivies, I am not too sure…

[Richard Scruggs]

The locations shown on the linked map don't show date/time for the clinics, and not all locations are included in the list of scheduled events below the map.

Wonder if those clinics/events without dates and times on the map are "yet to be scheduled" — or have they already been held? For example, Portland, OR.

Thanks.

[John Jensen]

I'm a relative newbie to backpacking. I'm the sort who when deciding packs or sleeping bags or stoves will burn four or five hours non-stop in google searches. I joined here last year and worked the search button pretty seriously. At this point I have a lot of web learnin' but just a half dozen nights out (hundreds of day hikes/mtbs though).

I got The Ultimate Hiker's Gear Guide from the library yesterday and gave it a fast skim. I like it. It represents a lot of the same information you find in a forum like this, but nicely organized. No four hour searches required. It has those "Skurka's picks" which save time and cut across a lot of discussion.

It is a great introduction and survey for non-obsessives.

From there you can go on to multi-hour searches on aluminum versus titanium Caldera Cones … or not, at your preference.

[Michael Ray]

I finished it recently, and it was a good read. I'd recommend it over Chris Townsend's latest edition of his Backpacker's Handbook. There were only a few things that stuck out at me as odd (or wrong IMHO). The torso length issue was already addressed and Andrew explained why he goes smaller if given the choice. Perhaps I missed these others:

1. "Don't be tempted to use a Walmart grease pot or a Foster's beer can – neither is durable enough for a week-long trip, and the Foster's can has horrible efficiency…" Seems like thru-hikers have used these before. I certainly haven't had any trouble with a Heineken can. I'll admit the Foster's would not be as robust as a Heineken unless you add your own ridges to it (or buy one from zelph). I can't imagine why one wouldn't last for at least a year. As for efficiency, the loss from wide and tall shape is mostly offset by the gain from the very thin metal. Works great on my Super Cat.

2. "Viruses are the second most common pathogen in North American water sources. Bacteria are the least common." Everything I've read indicates this is wrong – it's reversed. Viruses are a non-issue here.

3. "My first aid kit grew markedly bigger after I took an 80-hour, ten-day Wilderness First Responder course…" I recall a thread here where the majority claimed exactly the opposite effect (myself included) though most had taken the shorter WFA course. Even if I was in a group, I would not take a CPR mask.

There may have been a few other questionable things but those stuck out so much to me that I dogearred the pages. Great job overall though. Much better than the sample chapter he had originally posted a year ago. The more mainstream distribution for this should help educate more newbies into going lightweight.

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