Bushbuddy vs solostove

[Cody Croslow]

Has anyone played with the solo-stove? I've seen a few reviews of the bushbuddy, but none of the solo stove!

Also, for those of you WITH one of these… how well do they do in wet/snow conditions?

We made a makeshift one out of some stuff at a buddy's house, boiled 6 cups of water in a half hour, using dry, chopped wood. Thoughts?!

[Hikin’ Jim]

Cody,

The Solo stove sure looks like a cheap knock off of the Bushbuddy to me. Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am wrong somebody please speak up.

The Bushbuddy is a great design. Based on my testing, the Bushbuddy works really well and is a marvel of craftsmanship. The Solo? Looks a bit shoddy to me.

The Solo is also roughly double the weight (Bushbuddy Ultra, 5.1oz; Solo 10oz).

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[brent driggers]

They are both woodstoves and will require additional work and practice to have a good burn with wet wood. In these conditions, success with wood has more to do with finding the driest wood, having excellent tinder, lighting methods, etc.
I havent tried the solo stove but have owned a Bushbuddy. They are nice. They work just as well as any other decent woodstove with adequate aeration.
If I am hiking in rough conditions that arent improving, I will collect, snap short and stow the driest stuff I see during the entire day of walking. All it takes for a few cups of boiling water is ONE 3-4ft limb.
Happy Hiking

[Cody Croslow]

We made a prototype one based on a 1Quart paint can, and a pineapple can inside… but it takes a good 10 minutes to boil 2 cups of water! Granted… the fuel is free… but I might be missing something to the technique

[brent driggers]

Checked out the Solostove. It is a little heavy but is a very nice looking stove. It is made of 304SS which must be much more heavy duty than the the stuff the bushbuddy is made of.
10 minutes is not a terrible time. Every burn is different. Just keep practicing and carry some good tinder that will burn a l-o-ng time. My personal preference is beeswax cotton swabs.

[Tony Wong]

I know that the solostove is a lot cheaper than the Bushbuddy, but it would have been nice if the makers of the solostove did not blattenly rip-off/copy the design of the Bushbuddy.

Sucks that because Fritz, maker of the Bushbuddy, is a cottage manufacture and does not have the money to patent his design that he is open to this sort of theft.

That said, I have a Bushbuddy and love it….no reason that the Solostove should not perform as well, it looks like an exact, heavier copy.

Here is a link to an interview with Fritz that talks about how he developed the Bushbuddy…he is definitely one of the most unique UL cottage manufactures. Fun read if you are into learning about the orgins of the products that you use. Gave me a greater appreciation and enjoyment of owning one.

Interview: Fritz Handel from Bushbuddy by Hendrik Morkel

Edited to insert hyperlink to interview.

-Tony

[Ken Thompson]

http://www.solostove.com/

Looks uncomfortably familiar.

[Ted E]

wow, that is pretty much a blatant rip off of the bushbuddy. they even have a link on the main website comparing the two, and he even says that they are identical in design.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Looks uncomfortably familiar.

When people do it with money, they call it counterfeiting.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[peter vacco]

Land, unfortunately, there’s nothing for fritz to patent. it is a garlington gasifier concept,w which was given to the world by garlington.

edited by mod. -mk

[Hikin’ Jim]

"Crush them"

Tempting, tempting.

I definitely wouldn't buy one just because I'd like to see cottage gear manufacturers succeed in bringing new products to market. If people buy the rip off version, then cottage gear guys will never succeed — and anyone considering introducing new gear won't. Why go through all the blood, sweat, and tears — and the financial risk — of introducing good gear when someone will come along behind and make a cheap rip off copy that sells for half the price and take away your business.

"Crush them"
Well, maybe not literally, but I do have a certain blog. Maybe it's time I put the power of the written word to good use.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Cayenne Redmonk]

it is a completely different way to make the same thing.

The craftsmanship oo the seams are part of the bushbuddy's charm.

[Jacob D]

"The craftsmanship oo the seams are part of the bushbuddy's charm."

+1 to that.

[Tyler Jacques]

It happens…

If something works well, especially if it hasn't been patented, there will be similar products created. Look at something like tennis rackets or baseball bats, they are all pretty much the same but are made by lots of different companies.

I may be wrong but couldn't Bushbuddy could still get a patent and shut out Solostove? His best bet if he doesn't have the money to spend is to offer better service than his competitor and his customers will likely stay loyal.

In the end hopefully we will see an improved product / service out of one of these companies.

[Bruce Tolley]

Since the SoloStove is not pretending to be a BushBuddy, it is not an issue of counterfeiting. But it is a case of copying, and if there is intellectual property and or invention(s) in the BB design, the only defense is patent law. There might be aspects of the design that are patentable, even if there is prior art. It does take some research, and some $.

One or more of these features from the original BBL posting on BushBuddy might be patentable.
-Two-part nesting construction provides compact storage.
-Custom sized to integrate with FireLite 1L Titanium Cookware, available Spring 2007.
-Double wall firebox provides clean, efficient burning.
-Updraft chimney design capitalizes on double-wall firebox for preheating intake air, no batteries required!

By marketing on Facebook and directly comparing the SoloStove with the BushBuddy, perhaps this product will expand the market for BushBuddies. :-)

[j lan]

Mr Jeff Jan is using "bushbuddy" and "bush buddy" as alt tags in his homepage in attempt to steal traffic away from Fritz. He has also used BPL, NWHikers, Hamockforums and Backpacker logos on his homepage to look like endorsement.

Total fraud.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Yeah, I noticed that too that he's using a BPL logo (among others) to try to add credibility to his site. And he does have "Bushbuddy" and "Bush Buddy" embedded in his site for search engines to find.

Sleazy if you ask me.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Dan Yeruski]

Jim, buy one and do a few test burns and report back. It's in your blood. You need another stove.

Gee, did someone notice the Backcountry Boiler was similar in design to the kelly kettle? Both made outside USA

I suspect the Solo stove performs as well as the Bushbuddy. Save money, buy Solo and invest in the USA.

[Bob Gross]

"knit pickers have at it"

Dan, I think you meant nit pickers, not knit pickers.

–B.G.–

[Chris Rothwell]

The interview with Fritz was an interesting read. Some back of the napkin calculations show 860 units shipped @ ~$120 is gross ~100k, with 2 hours labor per batch of 24 ~71 hours. Granted he did a good bit of fiddling optimizing the design before going into the large scale manufacturing… but this is reasonable enough for scope. I think he made the right call. I suspect it would have taken too much of his net profit to attempt to patent and enforce it internationally. Good for him, great for the community.

From the interview…

John Hall let his patent protection expire. It turns out you have to keep giving money to the patent office to maintain patent protection. He might have kept up his patent protection, but I think that he generously chose to let the idea go into the public domain. I am pleased to use the Bushbuddy name, John played a big part in my own success and I hope he takes some satisfaction that the Bushbuddy concept lives on.

How easy, or difficult, is it to compete versus the mass market manufacturers, like Trangia, MSR and Primus? Have they maybe already tried to approach you and buy the company/ product/ patents?

Because I am only one worker in a small home business, I do not need to sell a large number of stoves to make a living. Last year was the first year that I sold so many stoves. I think there will always be a niche for the worker at home who can provide unique products that the large manufacturers are not interested in making because they need a very large market. By selling direct, I can make a better wage without making the selling price too high than I could by selling through a retailer. Every extra mouth along the way needs to be fed, so it is more efficient to feed lower on the food chain. The internet has really created a revolution that is only beginning to be felt. Today it is much easier to sell directly to the customer than it used to be, and there is an opportunity for many more people to create a cottage industry. Working at home could become much more common.

I expect that there will be other companies making similar stoves, but that is a good thing, maybe some day I will be able to go camping again.

No companies have approached me about buying my company. I have no patents, so there is really nothing to buy, anyone can just as well just start building similar stoves.

[Hikin’ Jim]

That's interesting that Fritz is so sanguine about others ripping him off.

I still think that it's sleazy that the Solo Stove guy is using the words "Bush Buddy" on his site in a hidden fashion and that he's including logos from prominent backpacking type websites.

I've seen Fritz's product, and it's a good one. I hope the cheap knock offs don't force him out of business.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Hikin’ Jim]

Ha! Interestingly the Solo Stove website is no longer displaying logos from various backpacking sites. Either someone told him to back off or he monitors this forum and figured out what was good for him. Quite likely that he follows this forum since BPL was one of the logos on his site.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Dan Yeruski]

"The Bushbuddy is a great design. Based on my testing, the Bushbuddy works really well and is a marvel of craftsmanship. The Solo? Looks a bit shoddy to me".

Right, how can you tell from the photo………..after all, you thought the White Box Stove was made from a pop can.

Thanks Bob for the nit pick :-)

[Bob Gross]

"Thanks Bob for the nit pick"

We do have some knitters here, and I didn't want them to get their panties in a bunch.

–B.G.–

[Bailey Gin]

The Bushbuddy has been copied in Europe for over 3 years now…called the Bushcooker. A couple of Youtude videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PcWUeR-Uj0

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