is this lafuma brand bag ok?

[Joe Clement]

I got two, in LH and RH, so I can zip them together and share some bodily warmth!

[Roger Caffin]

> I wondered if the black would help keep body heat in.
Nope. Won't do anything for body heat.

> Am I right in figuring that 3 yards of 1.1 oz silnylon would weigh 3.3 oz or did I miss something
Yep, you missed something …
1.1 oz means 1.1 oz per square yard, but the fabric is wider than one yard.
Also, '1.1 oz' does NOT mean the fabric will weigh 1.1 oz/squ yd when you get it. That is the weight of the base fabric, BEFORE any coatings or treatments are applied. 1.1 oz silnylon will weigh about 1.4 oz/squ yd at least.
Ah, the strange wonders of fabric measurements!

Note: if you buy from overseas the quoted weight will probably be the finished weight: only in America do the suppliers fake it like this. Wierd.

[Jane McMichen]

Good idea, Joe. And thanks for the lesson, Roger. I'll have to learn more to guestimate the final weight if I decide to try making a bivy (having one made, actually – I'm all left thumbs when it comes to sewing).

For Brett and others following the filming project, we have gotten our Federal Tax ID Number to help assure donors that we are legitimate. Thanks for the emails of support and donations – everything helps!

[Jane McMichen]

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know I found a buy I couldn't pass up. A Mountainsmith Recon +20 bag for $67 at REI Outlet (regular price $175). It's heavier than I wanted and a little more expensive, but at that price….. With the 20 degree rating, I probably won't need a bivy while in a tent either, so the extra 10 ounces should be just a tradeoff there. I'm posting this purchase on the website full-disclosure page – thanks for the donation, Brett!

I'm still looking for the right buy for my husband. He's not thrilled with mummy bags, but rectangular are so heavy! Any suggestions?

[Brett .]

Jane,
Glad you found your bag!

You said you are looking for a sleeping bag for your husband, but he doesn't like mummy bags (constrictive I suppose?) and rectangular bags are too heavy. I have two suggestions of expanding mummy bags for you.

I've mentioned both of these before, but the point here is that these both have variable girth.

1) Synthetic: Snugpack pertex bags
Mentioned above.. Most Snugpak bags have an expanding stretch baffle system. This is basically a flap and extra zipper which runs the length of the bag. You can unzip the bag fully, open the baffle, engage the second zipper, and the bag expands by 8" at the top and 4" at the bottom. This makes for a huge bag, about 68" in circumfrence at the shoulders. I can easily fit myself and my GF in these bags.
You can get these on sale occasionally. I have 5 bags from this company, due to a shipping error; and so have an extra Micro (800g, 5'C, baffle, pertex), and an extra Travelpak Lite (700g, 7'C NO baffle, no pertex). The 'low' temp I quoted there assumes you are wearing an insulation layer.
OEM:
http://www.snugpak.com/20_outdoors/21_05_micro.htm
Reviews:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Sleeping%20Bags/Snugpak%20Softie%20Chrysalis/

2) Synthetic or Down: Montbell bags with the "Super Stretch" system.
These have a series of inner and outer circumfrential stretch baffles which allow the entire bag to stretch lightly to conform to the user. The long bags stretch at the shoulders to about 75" Montbell has the world patent on this system, so no one can copy it. There are actually numerous benefits of having stretch baffles, one of which is that the inner baffle pulls the inside shell away from the outer shell, continuously and automatically maximizing the space between the shells, and therefore the loft. I get more than 2" single layer down loft from my #7 alpine (460g, 10'C).
OEM:
https://www2.montbell.com/america/asp/products/Spg_itiran.asp?cat=1105
Many reviews online; never seen a bad one.
I own three of these bags and I love them. I toss the #7 in my pack even if I'm staying in a hotel!

For volume comparisons, Western Mountaineering's excellent wide mummy bags$$$ (wish I had one) are cut with up to 66" at the shoulders, but do not have stretch baffles, so you are always heating the extra interior volume.

Knowing your preference for synthetic, Jane; I'd recommendt the Montbell Burrow Bag series, if you want to pay that much, then the Snugpack second.

[Jane McMichen]

Once again, thank you Brett for the info and the links. My husband and I have debated constriction versus weight versus cost versus temp rating until we're both dizzy. I think we're going to watch for a sale on the snugpak bags – and in the meantime I'm going to try my hand at sewing a lighter weight rectangular bag myself. I think I can manage a box (famous last words, eh?). I'll even add a draw cord at the top so he can cinch it around his face or shoulders if he gets a draft. Should I also put velcro for about half the bag so it can be opened in warm weather? I'm not up to zippers. Velcro is venturing into choppy waters.

My plan is to use 6 oz Primaloft Sport (2 layers on top, one on bottom), 1.1 oz nylon ripstop for the inner layers and the top, and 1.1 oz silnylon for the floor, all available from Thru-Hiker.com. If I've read my clo ratings, extra weight added to silnylon by impregnating the silicone and seam sealing, and guesstimated correctly all around, I should be able to assemble a winter rectangular bag for under 3 pounds – with the proper amount of swearing, of course. It helps that he's my height, so the bag doesn't have to be longer than about 6 feet total. It may not end up the prettiest bag out there, but if it's warm to at least 30 degrees and he likes the room for under 3 pounds and under $100…… At least swearing doesn't cost anything! :-)

[Joe Clement]

I did try out my Lafuma this weekend. Quite possibly the snuggest fitting bag I've ever tried. No way the "warm up" system works with me. It ran out of gas between 30-35 degrees, and rather than put on long underwear, I got in my down bag. It will make a good summer bag though.

[Brett .]

Thanks for the test report Joe. I also dislike constrictive bags. Snugpak (synth) or Montbell (synth or down) both have full length expansion baffles. I've packed and unpacked my aprox. 1 lb Montbell#7s about 20 times now, with no visible change in loft. Im sold on down.

[Jane McMichen]

Joe, thanks for the test results. I'm glad I decided against the lafuma since we'll only have one bag each for quite a while. Brett, I'll be watching for a Snugpak on sale – drop me a line if you see one, eh?

[Jason Gott]

Hi all,

I'm new to backpacking and looking for a relatively cheap but decent 3 season bag. I've been eyeing up that Mountainsmith Recon 20 degree polarguard 3D bag at REI Outlet. I would need the long (I'm 6'0"), and it's ~ $80. I haven't been able to find any info about it (user reviews, opinions), but I'm very interested in it. I was also considering one of the Lafuma bags at REI Outlet (GR 1000 or GR 1400). Does anyone have an opinion on that Mountainsmith bag, and whether it's too good of a deal to pass up? – or are there better options for that price? Any info or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks much,
Jason

[Jane McMichen]

Hi Jason! Brett is probably one of the people you should talk with. He's provided several links and pieces of info earlier in this thread that may help you as they did me. The tip that synthetic bags lose some of their loft (i.e. warming capacity) over time made me rethink my original choices. The Lafuma bag was too long for me but might be great for you. The only bad thing – well, sorta bad – I've read about the Lafumas was a post where a guy complained that the foot box was too small. Can you visit a retailer to put your hands on a Mountainsmith or Lafuma before you buy one online?

Anyway, welcome to BPL! Good luck!

[Brett .]

Jason,
Miles is selling his Campmor 20' bag in the gear swap forum. I recommend down if you have a drybag for storage, and a tent/tarp to keep it dry:
See this thread:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/6369/index.html?skip_to_post=45322#45322

I also have synthetic bags, but I'd only carry it if I was in a truly isolated and wet/damp situation, Lost Coast beach camping for example.

The choice of bag should not be made in isolation, but rather as part of your sleep system, which is composed of one or more of the following: a ground sheet, tent or tarp, closed cell mat, open cell mat, worn clothing(insulation), bag cover(bivy sack), pillow, and bag liner. Each of those components can add a little insulation, while serving other purposes (dryness, physical comfort, vapor barrier, bug protection, etc.) So consider again, do you really need a heavy 20'F bag? Maybe where you camp you do; Im just raising other aspects of this decision for you to conisder.

If budgets are tight, do what I did for my first down bag, lo those many months ago when I saw the 'light', eat cheap lunches for a while to make up the difference in cost!

[Frank Ramos]

Jane: you might want to reconsider your plans. First, Primaloft is not the best choice for sleeping bags. In clothing that will be worn in wet weather, Primaloft is a good choice, because rain always leaks into clothing somehow or another when it is raining and primaloft is the best insulation under those conditions. But sleeping bags are seldom faced with that type of moisture. The big problem in makign your own sleeping bags or quilt with synethic insulation is quilting. If you tightly quilt a bag, then you lose loft and make cold spots. But if you loosely quilt, then Primaloft is much less durable than continuous fiber. So I'd recommend you use Polarguard or Climashield instead of Primaloft. The latter is available from Thru-hiker.

Second, insulation under you does little good if you have mattresses while 6oz of Primaloft on top is unlikely to keep a woman warm to 30°F, even when sleeping with a man, unless she is hardened to the cold. So if you are going to use 9oz of Polarguard or Primaloft total, I'd say put it all on top and forget about anything underneath. Also, anything you put underneath, especially Primaloft, is going to be torn to shreds unless you are very careful about quilting.

Finally, the simplest solution is just to get a 2 person quilt kit from ray-way.com, with the alpine upgrade (6oz of Polarguard). Jardine says 6oz of Polarguard is good to 20°F. I say it is good to 45°F for the average person, after loss of loft due to repeated stuffing into a backpack. However, two people sleeping together probably brings the temperature rating back down to 35°F. Add some clothing and you should be able to meet your 30°F goal.

I have no experience with sleeping together with someone in a bag or quilt, so I don't know all the gotchas involved with this. I imagine draft leaks are a major problem, and I don't know how I would solve the problem, unlike with a 1 person quilt where the problem is easy to solve.

[Jane McMichen]

Thanks for the info, Frank. I'll take that into consideration! Just when I think I've got a handle on something there's so much more to learn…. :-)

[Jason Gott]

Thanks for the info Brett and Jane!

I understand your point Brett, but my situation is a little different. I should have qualified the phrase 'new to backpacking' by saying I'm going on my first trip ever with a friend this May to the Boundary Waters (northern MN). He has all the gear I need except for a sleeping bag (tent, self-inflating Thermarest pad, backpack, etc). We'll be canoeing / portaging, which is why I thought synthetic fill might be a smart choice – plus, it's cheaper. Average lows are about 40F that time of year up there.

There's a chance that I'll get more into backpacking, and want to buy the rest of the requisite gear; but even if I don't, I have occasion for a sleeping bag a few times a year, so I want a decent all-pupose bag. I'm really just looking for the best bag I can get that will work for this trip at the cheapest price. So far, I've considered some Keltys, the Lafumas, and the Mountainsmith. Oh, there's also a Sierra Designs Orcas Island 30 degree down bag at REI Outlet for $90 (orig $210) – but that's the absolute limit of what I'm willing to spend.

Jane – I've been to a few local outfitters and never come across a Mountainsmith or Lafuma brand bag. I hopped into an REI Polar Pod, and I really wouldn't want anything more constrictive that that – so I'm kind of leary of the Lafuma now after reading Joe's comments. I'm relatively thin (6'0" 170 lbs), but don't deal well with feeling overly constricted.

Add to all of this that I'm a horrible decision maker (I hem and haw about all the little details), and I'm having a tough time choosing, which is why I posted here. I really appreciate your input, guys – thanks!

Jason

[Joe Clement]

I guess I should add that I'm 5'10", and advancing age has me drifting up to around 200#. So your mileage with the Lafuma may vary. Shoot, for $34, order, try it on, and send it back it it's too small.

And I never should have loaded that stinkin' SAC pop up on my computer!! They are nickel and diming me to death. A Marmot Never Winter popped up a minute ago for $79, and like an addict, I whipped out the debit card….

[Brett .]

I check it several times a day, and they use what is basically one-click shopping so checkout is about 10 seconds. ..$49 XLA 210gram ice axes, merino wool, TNF Hyvent; my friends and relatives all got SAC birthday gifts.

[Jane McMichen]

Got the Recon today. Wow! It's my first light bag and I'm impressed. Roomy for me, comfy, and seemed to get toasty very quickly. I'm sure I'll learn a lot about it over the next week or so. Does anyone know if it will cause any damamge to spray a little Static Guard on it? We have cats and – wham! – right out of the box the Recon attracted stray hair like a magnet. Also, any tips for properly stuffing the bag into the stuff sack? Do's and don'ts?

I'm definitely a happy camper today! BTW, Brett, did you receive my email reply about the snugpak?

[Joe Clement]

Mountain Hardware has a good web page on how to stuff a bag.

[Jane McMichen]

Thanks Joe!

[Brett .]

..last message I have is that you are discussing it with your SO.
Thanks.

[Jane McMichen]

We'll take it. Just ship it when you get Stateside if that's OK with you. Want PayPal now with guesstimated shipping?

[Kirk Olson]

The Lafuma Warm 'n Light 600 down bags performed better than I expected. Though they are rated to 40 degrees, two boys (12 and 14) reported that they were warm at 35 degrees in the Sawtooths last week. They did have thermals, hats and socks and were in a single wall tent. I suspect they are both relatively warm sleepers.

[Jane McMichen]

Thanks Kirk! I'm keeping my eye on the Warm 'n Light bags for when I'm a little more experienced and feel comfortable with down instead of synthetic.

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