Clothing – Please Check My List

[Mark Rash]

I have my clothing choices for Philmont, but I wanted to run it by you guys to see what you think.

To be worn on the trail:

-Columbia Tamiami™ II LS Shirt – Longsleeve button-down shirt similar to a Cloudveil Classic Cool: Link to Shirt
-REI Sahara convertible nylon pants
-Synthetic Boxer Briefs: one pair Under Armor
-DeFeet Woolie Boolie Merino wool socks
-Colombia Ice Cap with neck drape
-Brooks Cascadia 7 Trail Runners

Additional Layers:

-Stoic Hadron Down Cardigan (Insulating Layer)
-Marmot PreCip Rain Jacket (also serves as windshirt/windbreaker)
-DriDucks RainPants
-Mountain Hardwear Dome Perignon fleece hat

Sleep Clothes:

-T-Shirt
-REI Medium Weight wool hiking socks

Extra clothes carried:

-Starter Polyester short-sleeve wicking T-Shirt
-Starter nylon boxer briefs
-DeFeet Woolie Boolie Merino wool socks
-Colombia Nylon shorts

Does this seem like a reasonable list? Do I need the third pair of socks just for sleeping, or can I just rotate my other two pairs daily and sleep in them too?

[Carl Zimmerman]

Looks pretty good. I didn't see gloves anywhere. Some lightweight liner gloves should be there.

On my two Philmont hikes (07 & 08), I hiked in lightweight hikers (Hi-Teks). Great fit to my foot (most important feature). Never got blisters (so, naturally, Hi-Tek discontinued the shoe). I think it's more important on your pack weight rather than your physical weight when it comes to lighter weighing footgear. But, I'm not one of the uber-lite guys. I'd like to be one at some point.

[Joshua Gray]

Mark,
Overall, your clothing choices seem appropriate. Don't worry about a 3rd pair of socks. Get rid of the sock liners. Also, the cap 3 for sleeping is a bit much, unless you really need to beef up your sleeping bag.

As for the boots, switch to lighter trail shoes. I wore salomons for the 2nd summer I was a ranger and they worked wonderfully on my 6' 230lb frame. Heck, I now wear NB MT 101's and have no problem.

Good luck and enjoy Philmont!

[Steven Paris]

Mark,

I haven't been to Philmont and don't know the weather for when you are going, so these suggestions may not be worth much.

(1) Instead of taking a 2d boxer brief AND a 2d pair of shorts (you already have the convertible pants), think about the lightest pair of running shorts with a liner that you can find. This will be enough to wear for swimming, hiking or while washing and can be worn under the pants too.

(2) Driducks pants seem to be very fragile (according to others here) so keep that in mind. Weather will dictate if you think you need a rain shell for your legs, but you could take an extra garbage bag for a low-tech MYOG rain kilt. Mike C. made a rain kilt out of a pair of Driducks pants once, but I don't have a link to that thread now.

(3) You shouldn't need the sock liners, especially if you are taking hiking shoes instead of boots. If you do take a 3rd set of socks, take 3 sets of light wool socks (it's amazing how several ounces can be saved by weighing socks and picking the shortest and lightest you have/can buy). If you take a 3rd, save them as sleep socks until the last day.

(4) The Cap 3 sleep layers seem a little warm for that part of the country, at least in summer, especially for the legs. However, I don't have the Cap 3 weights in mind, so switching to some lighter merino tights or REI silk tights may not save that many ounces.

Otherwise, it looks good. When are you going to Philmont?

[Sarah Kuhn]

Mark –
Your list looks good – here are my notes.
I did Philmont in 2010 and I'm headed back on June 18, 2012….. YEAH!!!
Also did 2 summers at PTC.
I hiked in zipoffs WITH the legs attached the entire time – kept the obnoxious trail dust out of my boots, socks, legs….. consequently my sleeping bag. Took the lightest shorts I had as a second pair for laundry day…. but could have worn my rain pants until my other pants dried… an option I'm considering.
Sleeping clothes look heavy (too warm) – I used a lightweight pair of shorts and a tshirt. Never needed anymore warmth then that even in my cheap Lafuma 30* sleeping bag.
I took long johns in 2010 because they were on 'the list' – never came out of my pack….. don't know that I'll take them this summer. I could layer my rain pants over my hiking pants if I needed the warmth.
I do swear by the 3 sock rotation – 1 on, 1 either dirty or drying, and 1 clean in my pack. (never slept in socks, I only do that when it's cold, but could do that with the 3 sock rotation if I needed to.)
Footwear – I'm sold on higher top footwear – over the ankle. I hiked in a pair of Asolo Stynger boots in 2010 – the sole on these was too stiff in my opinion, irritated my achilis and a bit heavy at 40oz. For this summer I've picked up a pair of Vasque Briza's (about the same weigh as your Keens). Depending on your trek the terrain can either be well worn paths or ankle twisting rocks – most likely a combination of the two. Lighter weight over the ankle atleast provides me with some mental support if not some actual ankle support.
Enjoy your trip!!

[Mark Rash]

Thanks everyone for their input.

I agree the Capilene 3's are a bit much… I'm packing them out of fear. My sleep system is a Neo Air mattress and a Jacks R Better 30 degree quilt. I was using these while wearing Stoic 200 merino wool tops and bottoms in January and nearly froze to death. I added a 1/8" GG CC foam pad on top and changed to the Capilene 3's and have been warm since. If I can afford it, I'm going to get a new Neo Air Xtherm pad to take with me and that should make sleeping much warmer. We're going two days early to New Mexico to acclimate. I will try lighter sleepwear those nights. If I don't freeze I'll leave the Capilene 3's in the car.

I have a pair of Salomon Men's XA Pro 3D MID GTX high-top trail runners coming to try out. Hopefully these will be lighter weight, but with enough support for peace of mind.

[John Myers]

Mark,
If you are taking the JRB 30 degree quilt, I'd take the Capilene 3's.
I took a heavier JRB quilt and the Cap 3's and was glad I had them at the higher elevation camps. I suppose it depends on when your trek is. Ours was early June and there was still snow up on Phillips and it was in the low 30's several nights.

I think you will be fine with trail runners, but try them out on some rocky trails before you go just to be sure you like them.

John

[Mark Rash]

Our Trek is June 26th.

I got the Salomon 3D GTX Mid trail runners. So far I like them okay and they are much lighter than the Keen boots.

[Walter Underwood]

I wore Vasque Blur GTX trail runners (on the heavy end of that scale) at Philmont. I was upper end of the weight range at 6' 3" 240.

If you have trekking poles, those provide more ankle support than boots ever could. If you don't have trekking poles, get some. My poles also held up my MLD Speedmid tent.

Some extra insulation is handy when you are hanging around at campfires. I think I was coldest one long morning at Wild Horse Meadow while the guys took forever to pack up.

Try everything on shakedowns. Climb Kyle Mountain a few times in those trail runners and you'll know more about how they work. The trails at Philmont aren't much worse than that, just longer.

Expect frost at higher elevations.

Allow more than 10 pounds for food and water. Food is 800g per person per day, so four days of food and three liters of water is about 13.5 pounds. My base weight was 20, with all crew gear and my heavy camera.

For dry camps, plan on carrying 6-7 liters of water. The Nalgene 96 oz. canteen is just right for extra water.

Getting some rain at Granbury? I was on staff at Worth Ranch one summer long ago.

[bill berklich]

How are the Salomons working out for you?

[Mark Rash]

My feet have high arches and the Salomons didn't have enough arch support for me. I found a couple of running shops and went through all the models I could. What was overwhelmingly most comfortable for me was:

BROOKS CASCADIA 7 Trail Runners

http://www.brooksrunning.com/Cascadia-7/110115,default,pd.html

My crew had a shakedown campout this past weekend and we did 18 miles on some REALLY rocky trails in full packs. I didn't have any issues and NO BLISTERS. Also, FWIW, I was wearing Stoic Merino Comp Trail Crew Socks. I'm sold on trail runners for lightweight backpacking.

[Mark Rash]

I modified my list in the first post. Several things have changed. Instead of taking the JRB Sierra Sniveller quilt, I got a down sleeping bag which allowed me to ditch the Capilene 3 sleep clothes.

I also got a Stoic Hadron down cardiagan which replaces the Patagonia Nano Puff.

I ditched the Smartwool socks in favor of the lighter DeFeet Woolie Boolie socks. This was due in part because I switched to the Brooks Cascadia Trail runners which are overall more comfortable and don't need as much padding from the socks.

[bill berklich]

lol. I'm trying to decide between my Stoic Hadron vest with Pearl Izumi Thermal Lite Arm Warmers or my 1/2 zip Nano Puff. Will look into a trail shoe. Not really anyplace im Michigan to give them a workout. Not quite Ohio but preyty flat.

[Bill Rose]

I like your list and will probably use it, and some of the others posted, as the basis of our 2013 trip. One question I have revolves around keeping your legs warm in the morning and evening. I've seen some who pack the BPL Cocoon UL 60 pants for morning or evening warmth. What are the other options? I've considered bringing a light pair of long polypropylene pants to don if cold, but are there better options?

[Mark Rash]

When you get up, get moving as quickly as possible. It's amazing how quickly you warm up. If I have to have more on my legs than my pair of pants, I'll slip my rain pants over them.

[M B]

" One question I have revolves around keeping your legs warm in the morning and evening. I've seen some who pack the BPL Cocoon UL 60 pants for morning or evening warmth. What are the other options? I've considered bringing a light pair of long polypropylene pants to don if cold, but are there better options?"

My son and I bring synthetic long underwear bottoms on our hikes if low temps expected in the 30s. These are for morning and evening comfort at camp, and sleep in too. Hike in them until warm up and then take them off, usually when temp tops about 35F. As a general rule, thats all most hikers bring unless its winter conditions. Legs just dont get as cold as the rest of your body.

Thats all Ive ever found I need with nights in the 20s and days in the 30s. For philmont in the summer, I cant see needing insulated pants unless you have a 50 degree sleeping bag.

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