Jan 23, 2012 at 2:57 pm #1284568
Just had my first trip with a tarp (cuben) and working on my sleep system. I have a Kooka Bay pad and pillow at around 14oz, but am trying to move away from inflatable so that the morning pack up can be even quicker with less hassle.
Suluk 46 Padded Ground sheet. This is my ground sheet and my backpack frame rolled up. (2.23oz)
GG Nightlight Sleeping Pad (Torso). This fits folded up into a pocket on the backside of my pack. (3.43oz)
MYOG Cuben/WPB Quilt (12oz)
Klymit Pillow (3oz)
I could go without the pillow and save a good bit, but for now a nonclothes stuffed pillow is required for my sleep.
Opinions would be welcomed, but also would like to know what your SUL sleep system consist ofJan 24, 2012 at 3:53 pm #1829134
Quilt: 14.0oz Down Quilt (Virga Outdoors Wendego) – 35F Rated w 7.6oz 900fp down and M55 fabrics
Pillow: None. I have a 0.9oz Kookabay pillow but only seem to sleep mediocre on it so lately I've been leaving it at home. I sleep just as well using a stuff sack with clothes, stuff sack with platypus's or just tossing my shoes under the head end of my pad.
Pad: Not sure what to do. I've got a 16oz Exped SynMat UL which works well but it's heavy. I've also got the Suluk 46 PG Sheet but that's not really a warm enough pad except for summer. My future SUL strategy might be a thicker CCF pad combined with really smart sleeping spot selection (soft ground, a little slope). For non-SUL trips I'll bring the SynMat.Jan 24, 2012 at 4:19 pm #1829141
@bestbuilderLocale: Pacific Northwest
Dan, what's the lowest temperature have you used the Synmat at?Jan 24, 2012 at 4:27 pm #1829146
Current sleep stuff:
Pad- GG nightlight torso (3-4 oz)
Bag Cover- Equinox bivy (~6 oz)
Bag- RAB top bag (~15 oz)
For a pillow, I put my rainshield jacket on top of my shoes.Jan 24, 2012 at 5:55 pm #1829187
@thomdarrahLocale: Southern Oregon
My SummerUL sleep system;
Pad: Inertia X Lite Torso = 6.5 oz
Bivy: MLD SL Bivy = 5 oz
Quilt: MLD Spirit 45 (M55 shell) = 13.5 ozJan 24, 2012 at 6:31 pm #1829209
"what's the lowest temperature have you used the Synmat at?"
I was in an un-heated alpine hut a week ago. It was steady at 25F inside the hut and I had the pad on a wooden bunk.
I could easily feel the heat escaping through the pad. It wasn't radical, but I wouldn't have wanted it to be any colder or the pad would have been a real problem.
I thought the pad would be fine in these conditions, because it's R3.2 and my old NeoAir (R2.5) has handled similar conditions with better results. There's been quite a bit of raving on BPL about the Synmat UL on many aspects, including that it's significantly warmer than the NeoAir. Through about 5 nights of cold weather use with the Synmat UL, my experience is that the NeoAir is easily warmer.
While I'm on the topic, the Synmat UL is also quite a bit more slippery both on the top (which I don't mind) and the bottom (which I do mind). It's not a bad pad, but the NeoAir is the better idea (ie. NeoAir's reflective baffling is warmer and lighter than Expeds syn insulation). The only thing that saves the Synmat UL is that I do like the vertical baffles better, so I think I'm more comfortable.Jan 25, 2012 at 12:37 am #1829334
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
For the past year or so it has been a Marshall Cuben Quilt @ 11 oz and a trimmed down Sukluk 1/2" torso pad 2 oz. That works well down into the high 30s F for me. I wrap my shoes inside my down jacket for a pillow. I did a couple trips in December with a full size Neo Air, a 1/8" Sukluk full size pad to protect the NeoAir, and a 1 oz air pillow. I was somewhat cold at 28F. I am getting too old for the foam pads. For Christmas I got a torso sized NeoAir, but haven't tried it out. I have to play around with the air pillow to get the right amount of air, but may keep it. Not sure on the pillow yet.
When it gets much below freezing I bring the Marshall Quilt and a Nunatak Arc Specialist, with an insulated BAC full length pad. But I sleep extremely cold, more so than most people.Jan 25, 2012 at 5:18 am #1829358
My main SUL 2 season set up:
Space blanket ground cover: 50g
Trimmed 3/4 foam pad: 225g
Häglofs Lim 50 syth bag: 460g
MYOG pillow: 50g
Total: 785g (about 27.7oz)
The above I am able to sleep warm and comfy down to about 8C (46F), ideal is around 10C (50F). I only take the pillow half of the time or so and just use either natural materials or clothing as a makeshift pillow. Add my Ti Goat Ptarm bivy (200g) and a syth vest (210g) and I can push this set up down to around 4-5C (39-41F). I should add that I sleep slightly warmer than most people, however.
When it is very warm out (20C and above at night), I can go with my most light weight sleep system:
Garbage bag ground cover: 42g
No pad or natural materials as insulation: 0g
MYOG nylon liner: 250g
Total: 292g (10.3oz)
I have also mixed and matched a few other combinations, like take the sleeping bag but leave the pad, which worked out quite well that one time, which I documented on my blog:Jan 25, 2012 at 10:55 am #1829499
@bestbuilderLocale: Pacific Northwest
Dan, thanks for the review on the Synmat, I was concerned because I can't use a NEO below 40* (I think I sleep colder the even Nick), and the Synmat looked rather thin.Jan 25, 2012 at 11:21 am #1829511
@eugeneiusLocale: Nuevo Mexico
15oz./30F quilt (Stateless Society)
torso length CCF pad (GG)
ground sheet (painters drop cloth or polycro sheet)
empty pack w/ jacket for pillowJan 25, 2012 at 11:44 am #1829526
I've had this setup into the upper 20's (w/ no additional clothing)
Katabatic Palisade 17.5 oz
MLD SL bivy 6.5 oz
Neoair medium 12 oz (tried a small, it was too small :))
Flexair large pillow 0.7 oz
36.7 oz total, not too shabby for a mid 20-ish setup, the bivy is used as my SUL shelter is a poncho/tarpJan 25, 2012 at 12:38 pm #1829550
@davecLocale: Crown of the Continent
Under a tarp or mid:
20 oz synthetic quilt (old BPL Cocoon 60 with 5 oz Climashield XP added, 6 oz in footbox)
7 oz foam mat (cut down normal ridgerest with 1/8" Thinlight glued on top), 8 oz Thermarest Prolite XS when doing trips in the national park (harder ground in designated sites)
Pack under feet
Rain gear wrapped up on top of shoes for pillow
Hooded fleece or puffy to suit temps
This is good down to mid-low 20s with the right puffy and clothing. Below that I go to a full length pad and down bag.Jan 25, 2012 at 2:58 pm #1829623
To those of you that contributed, what is your "official" comfort rating on your bags, btw? I left mine out as well, it claims on the maker's website that it is comfort rated to 13C and extreme temp is 1C.
I am especially interested in more detail of your set up Mike, mostly because you say there is no additional clothing involved! And I thought I was a warm sleeper. I will usually wear my base layer, sometimes though when I am pushing my system past 7C I will wear all my clothing other than rain gear (if any). I have found that humidity plays a part in how cold it "feels", I am sure there is a scientific explaination. But sleeping at say 5C on a hill vs. sleeping next to a lake is much different.Jan 25, 2012 at 3:20 pm #1829632
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
Over the years I have just ignored the ratings, they aren't even close for me. And for someone who lives and hikes a lot in places like Maine, Minnesota, or Alaska they probably see them as too conservative. In the summer here, 115 F is fairly common and folks are in the grocery store enjoying the climate controlled environment and I need to wear long pants and a jacket to stay comfortable.Jan 25, 2012 at 5:13 pm #1829702
the Palisade is "officially" rated by Katabatic at 30 degrees, I believe this is a little conservative (I think others have come to the same conclusion); in my experience adding a bivy adds some additional warmth- so between the two getting into the 20's isn't that difficult (albeit I do run towards to the warm end of the scale)
if I knew it was going to be in the low to mid 20's I'd probably add a thinlight pad to the neo, I find the neo is good to a little below freezing and not much moreJan 26, 2012 at 12:56 am #1829831
@traumaheadLocale: Cen Cal
16.70oz. Katabatic Gear Chisos w/ 2 oz overfill, 9.1oz total down.
15.10oz. Cheap 1/2 foam pad or 16.40oz Exped Synmat UL7
For my pillow I've been using my down jacket in a stuff sack, but that was with a warmer bag. Since there's going to be times where I wear my puffy to sleep, I'm looking looking for a new pillow option, eyeing the Wallyworld water wings at the moment. Lately I've been waking up more sore on the UL7 compared to the foam pad, which I don't see how that's possible. If that keeps up, I'll probably switch to a 1/4" or 3/8" pad. I just picked up an HMG tarp this winter to see what tarping's about, so I've been looking at bivies lately. Most likely going to go with a Katabatic Gear Bristlecone, read good things about it and it'll integrate with my quilt. Previous shelter is a Tarptent Moment. So with my new/upcoming setup, I'm looking at about 2lbs with the quilt, new pad, and adding a bivy.
I've only gotten to use my Chisos once so far since winter, but it was in the low 20s. Wore my Rab Microlight Alpine Jacket, synthetic tee, midweight longjohns, nylon hiking pants, 2 pairs of Smartwool socks. I was just a little less than comfortable. My feet never warmed up either. I think if I had down booties, I would've been fine. I was sleeping in the back of my Jeep with the windows slightly open on my 1/2" foam pad. I was using the tuck method, and and my sleeping position was a little awkward so I kept getting drafts. I also had altitude sickness so that didn't help.Jan 26, 2012 at 8:58 am #1829933
@michaeltrefzgerLocale: So Cal
I'm not sure if this is totally sul but here's what I'm using these days.
Ruta Locura Wasatch Bivy: 4.35oz
MLD Spirit 45: 12.5oz (or JRB Sierra Stealth: 15.25oz)
Thermarest Prolite XS: 7.9oz
Padded Ground Cloth: 3.5oz
Exped Air Pillow: 2.9oz
Total: 31.15oz (or 33.9oz)
Due note that I have not yet had the chance to use the Wasatch Bivy yet but I plan to rectify that soon.
For my uses I find this system is good down to the low 40Fs with the spirit quilt and down to 32F with the Sierra Stealth.
I'm thinking about lightening this system up a bit by purchasing the Kookabay Pillow and TaperLite Airmat. Anyone have experience with the Taperlite? The idea of shaving off 4oz without sacrificing comfort is a very appealing concept. Also, any word on Kookabay production. I checked their website today and they are still closed for the holidays.?May 4, 2012 at 3:25 pm #1874467
@maniacjwjLocale: Colorado Rockies
Western Mountaineering Highlite 35 degree Highlite 16oz
Cocoon Silk sleeping bag liner (supposed to add 9 degrees) 4.5 oz (last weekend, I could tell the difference when I pulled it up over my ears)
Gossamer Gear Nightlight Sleeping Pad (torso length 3/4" thick) 3.65 oz
Shoes in my RikSak
Painter's drop cloth under all of it (6' x4.5') 1.55 oz
I stick my 02 rain jacket under my legs (actually this weekend, I curled up and put my sleeping bag foot IN my zipped up jacket). In the summer, I put my thermal jacket in my rain jacket then put both under my legs.
The Nightlight Sleeping Pad keeps me warm underneath but it does nothing for comfort. Backpacking is an adventure in hiking under sleep deprivation. All to be out in nature and looking at the wonderful views.May 7, 2012 at 9:38 pm #1875457
@kalebcLocale: South West
Myog M50/apex quilt, neoair sm, cuben pillow sack, polycro groundsheet.
Total 20ozMay 8, 2012 at 7:19 am #1875513
KC I know what a neo small weighs :), so I need to know what your quilt weighs? also any other details about the quilt including what you think a realistic rating would be would be much appreciated
MikeMay 9, 2012 at 9:08 pm #1876098
@kalebcLocale: South West
Mike, my quilt weighs 10.7oz, I'm a warm sleeper and wear all my clothing when I sleep and can take it into the 30's with no problems. FYI to give an idea how I sleep, I took a WM highlite down to 19F wearing paty 3 base layers, merino top, synthetic jacket, wool socks and a MH dome beanie- I was cold but not too bad. Here is my quilt.May 9, 2012 at 9:24 pm #1876101
@creachenLocale: East Bay
WM Highlite 18oz
NeoAir Xlite (L) 15.5oz
Kooka Bay Pillow 1.3oz
Suluk 46 PGS Pad 2.2oz
BPL Merino Wool LS Top 6.7oz
Patagonia Long Johns 4.4oz
WM Flash Vest 6.3oz
Wright Socks 0.8oz
Patagonia Merino Liners 1.2oz
Plus a good hardy dinner!Sep 3, 2012 at 9:25 am #1908666
@anthonywestonLocale: Southern CA
I have a Tim Marshall 15 degree cubin quilt that is 14 oz.
I have a 1/4 inch GG Hammock pad that I cut down at 4 oz and a 25 inch by 20 inch xlite pad that I cut that also weighs 4 oz. I bring the xlite because I shattered my ribs in 1989 and it allows me to sleep. If it pops I still have the Hammock pad to keep me warm but probably awake for most of the night. In the shoulder seasons I have a prolite 1/2 inch pad cut down.Sep 7, 2012 at 7:23 pm #1910232
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
Sleep systems are always a problem. Weight v.s. comfort is the main problem.
For summer and high alpine, near and below freezing nights I have:
BAG> Western Mountaineering Megalite overfilled W/ 1 oz. 850 fill down (I have wide shoulders & need it)good to 15-20 F.
MATTRESS> Thermarest Prolite reg. (because I "need" the comfort and it's very little heavier than a Neo Air of the same length.)
VERY cold nights> For below 15 F., Eddie Bauer First Ascent down sweater & med. poly long johns W/ balaclava.
You could use a short Prolite and your CCF sit pad as a combo mattress. Sew VELCRO strips in the bottom end of the Prolite hem and glue VELCRO on the sit pad to hold them together.Sep 8, 2012 at 7:26 am #1910313
@towalyLocale: Smoky Mtns.
For most of the year here in the SE, it's not very cold.
Bag = Montbell Ultralight Down Thermal Sheet(Rated down to 50*F) 13 oz.
Pad = Klymit X-Lite 6.5 oz.
Groundsheet = Trimmed "space" mylar sheet 2 oz.
If it gets cooler, or wetter and cooler, I add an AMK SOL Emergency Bivy(3.5 oz) inside the Montbell as a Vapor Barrier Layer, and use another AMK SOL Emergency Bivy(3.5 oz) on the outside, to prevent rain or condensation getting on the outside of the bag.
This really improves the performance of the system, and can go quite a bit lower in temp this way. And the totally waterproof arrangement is possible when using an inner VBL, and this keeps the bag completely dry with the outer AMK SOL bivy around it, even in rain spray or heavy condensation inside the tarp.
During the winter, it gets "less SUL" because I have to add a nearly 2 pound WM Alpinlite bag, and a GG Thinlight 3/16" ccf pad(4 oz). Plus, I have more clothes. I'm more "UL" in the winter than "SUL".
I put it all under a Gatewood Cape(11 oz), and use the matching Six Moons Serenity Net-Tent(8 oz) when necessary during buggy trips.
If I don't need full coverage shelter, then I bring my ID Siltarp 5×8(7 oz) instead.
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