Refilling Gas Canisters

[Hikin’ Jim]

Yeah, those are regular canisters like Giga Power or MSR.

I used a couple last summer and they worked fine with my Pocket Rocket.

Regular 220g canisters of iso-butane cost $5.50 I think. Price keeps increasing. $2.50 for butane seems like a deal. As long as you won't be using it below 30 or 35 F. [emphasis added]

30 or 35F with 100% butane? (around freezing) Hmm. Actually, I'd feel more comfortable at 50F/10C (at sea level; you can go 2F degrees colder per 1000 feet above sea level).

Why? Well, you need to be about 10F (5C) degrees above the boiling point of the fuel in order to have decent power. Butane boils at 31F. If you're at 30 to 35F, then the stove might kinda sorta run, but it'll be tough to get water to boil because your flame will be really puny and weak.

OK, so 10F/5C degrees above the boiling point would be 40F/5C. Why then would I recommend 50F/10C? Well, the canister cools from within as you use it. If you start at 40F/5C, the canister temperature will quickly fall below a really usable point. Starting at 50F/10C means even if your canister temperature falls by 10F/5C degrees, you'll still have decent power.

Of course if you do things to warm the canister, you can go colder.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Hikin’ Jim]

Now the big question…

I saw that you can still find Bernzomatic PC8 Torches (i think with can) online. Is it possible to refill the PC8? Because that would then allow all that cool propane adapter stuff you talked about but without having to carry those beasts of a fuel canister.

Yes. With the adapter that Mark is showing, one can refill the PC8 type canisters. You would need to combine it with a propane to 7/16 UNEF adapter like the one I show a couple of posts back. Attach the propane-to-7/16 adapter to the one Mark is showing, open up the valve, and you can refill a PC8. I have two of the oh-so-precious PC-8's. Yes, I went out an bought one of the adapters Mark is showing.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Jerry Adams]

Okay 30 F not so good. 40 F should be okay. I was using it last year at something like that.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Jerry,

That should work if you keep the canister temperature from going any lower.

Too bad there aren't any Fred Meyers in my area. Sigh.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Stuart R]

I've never really had a need to refill canisters.
If I want cheap gas in the summer, I use the 227g bayonet butane canister with the Kovea KA-N9504 adapter and my remote canister stove. For the rest of the year I use 175g screw top canisters which contain 30% or 35% propane. When used inverted, these work at a MUCH lower temperature than my sleeping bag is capable of keeping me warm!
I do 1 and 2 night trips and numerous day trips when I leave the stove in the car to make a brew when I get back, so using up partially empty canisters is never a problem.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I've never really had a need to refill canisters.
If I want cheap gas in the summer, I use the 227g bayonet butane canister with the Kovea KA-N9504 adapter and my remote canister stove. For the rest of the year I use 175g screw top canisters which contain 30% or 35% propane. When used inverted, these work at a MUCH lower temperature than my sleeping bag is capable of keeping me warm!
I do 1 and 2 night trips and numerous day trips when I leave the stove in the car to make a brew when I get back, so using up partially empty canisters is never a problem.

Perfectly reasonable.

It's the siren's song of better winter gas that really calls me. Those 175g canisters aren't available in the US, and Coleman Max/Powermax has been discontinued. I've got but two precious PC8 226g 100% propane backpacking stove compatible canisters. I either refill them or have to part with them.

The 100% butane refilling is interesting and cost effective. It's also a good weight saver for those who don't have access to a Stuart Robb UL remote canister stove. ;)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Roger Caffin]

> The 100% butane refilling is interesting and cost effective.
But sadly not winter-effective.
Sigh.

I am NOT throwing my empty Powermax canisters out!

Cheers

[Larry De La Briandais]

There is an adapter for this? Where can I get one?

[Roger Caffin]

Adapters for Powermax canisters … sorry, but MYOG.
I don't think either Alva (jp) or Tumekaen (jp) make anything suitable – but I might be mistaken. I can't read their web sites.

Caution: refilling is officially prohibited, by the lawyers.

Cheers

[Hikin’ Jim]

Larry,

There is an adapter for refilling PowerMax canisters. It's available from Japan. It's expensive though and only refills with 100% butane — which defeats the whole purpose of PowerMax canisters (winter efficacy). I can't recommend it.

So far, I haven't come up with anything except some kludgey stuff, but I'll keep trying.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Myles M]

Here’s a refilling device that’s light enough to pack along.  4 grams!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252904861167

[Mark Fowler]

That’s a wonderfully dangerous device.  No secure connection to the canisters, no valve to control gas release when starting/finishing refilling.

[Ben H.]

I’m not sure I get the dangerous bit.  No secure connection means that if your hand slips, the spring loaded pin in the cannister closes the valve.  It is harder with this device to hold the valve open (the dangerous part).

The valve control would be an issue if the orifice through the fitting is wildly too big.  I reserve judgement until someone reports one way or the other.  This device doesn’t seem anymore dangerous to me than the standard dangers associated with refilling disposable canisters.  I.e.: Don’t try this at home kids!

[Bob Moulder]

I bought and used one very similar to this for transferring fuel from the cheap butane cartridges (the ones used for tabletop stoves) into the normal isobutane canisters most of us use (with the Lindal valve).

I would argue that it isn’t all that dangerous—although you can never underestimate the creativity of morons—and there are some people out there who could screw up the most failsafe system imaginable. This is why canister manufacturers warn that canisters should not be refilled.

My main gripe about the device in question is that it’s just annoying to use… you have to hold both canisters for a sustained period of time very carefully to maintain the seal around the o-rings. Unless there is an open flame nearby (*see definition for moron) a small puff of butane doesn’t pose much of a danger, about the same as you might get refilling a cigarette lighter with Ronsonol.

But I would still strongly advise, refill at your own risk, minimal as it might be.

[Ben H.]

Yup, I re-read Hikin Jim’s post on refilling canisters with butane.  He leaves them inverted for hours.  I definitely wouldn’t want to do that with this fitting.  It is also pretty expensive ($25).  Ebay has brass ones that mate with the cheap butane cylinders for just a couple bucks.

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