Jan 17, 2012 at 1:44 pm #1284265
Companion forum thread to:Jan 17, 2012 at 2:08 pm #1825890
gear from "mainstream" manufacturers seems to be getting lighter and better every day …Jan 17, 2012 at 2:49 pm #1825903
The Scarp vestibules are 6.25 sq ft each (12.5 tot)
FrancoJan 17, 2012 at 2:57 pm #1825908
No improvements? It's perfect?
Let me help you. Very little shoulder season snow load capability, potential for condensation being an issue at the foot and head end with the shorter fly and taller bathtub floor, and price for a solo.
I like me some Notch.Jan 17, 2012 at 3:37 pm #1825919
That "Recommendation for improvement" should be clarified.
That is because it can mean :
NO , it is perfect as it is
NO, I can't think of anything right now
NO, not without adding weight /bulk/extra cost ….
BTW, if it were perfect than Nemo would be crazy to change it but by doing so they would be stagnating…
FrancoJan 17, 2012 at 4:03 pm #1825926
Head explodes…Jan 17, 2012 at 4:04 pm #1825927
I'm not so sure I'd slot this one into the double wall category. It looks more like a hybrid double/single wall tent to me with the huge cutout creating a large single wall section at the head end:
I'm not sure how this plays out the field, but if condensation forms inside the tent here, it's sure going to feel like a single wall tent.
Nice review. Lots of details and it's good to have the video.
I'm quite happy with my HMG Echo I. It sets up with hiking poles, but it's double wall, the inner doesn't have to be set up first so it's protected in the rain, the door way isn't vulnerable to rain falling in and the whole thing is modular, so you can go as light as a 7oz tarp if the conditions allow. Main downside is headroom isn't too generous if you're using the inner….which matters very little to me compared to keeping the rain and condensation off.Jan 17, 2012 at 4:05 pm #1825928
@ryanLocale: Northern Rockies
OK, I'll bite.
How about dealing with the kyphosis on these tent designs? Is it me or do others find them … aesthetically challenged? Not to mention the broadside sail it pitches into the wind.
I'm not sure what sort of benefit this type of tent has over, say, a double-walled tarp tent.Jan 17, 2012 at 5:43 pm #1825962
I agree with Ryan.
The BA an the Nemo have a very similar pole structure and their own poles, the Echo and the Notch do not , not that I would compare these last two for weather protection either.
FrancoJan 17, 2012 at 6:07 pm #1825978
@lotuseaterLocale: Colorado Foothills
How else did you manage the overhead shot of the tent? Really enjoyed the different perspectives (pun intended) of this review. That being said, I'll stick with my BA Copper Spur UL1 in fair conditions. Is there a reason why the older BA Seedhouse SL1 was used as a comparison rather than both of BA's current UL models?Jan 17, 2012 at 7:22 pm #1826012
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
Had to go to a medical dictionary on that 'kyphosis.'
Functional is not always beautiful. 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.'
What works superbly is beautiful in my book.
There are some flaws with this tent, and one is space. Was about to buy one, and save myself another winter hammering away at MYOG in the basement, when visited International Mountain Equipment near home and saw the 2-person version in person.
Very cramped, compared to, say, a Rainbow.
Two reasons for this:
1. They want to satisfy the demand for a self-supporting tent, so have to add the poles for that, and have to reduce size to make up for the added pole weight.
2. To stay in business, they want a product that will hold up to customer abuse, so have to add weight with heavier materials, and further reduce the tent size for that reason as well.
Another possible flaw is the lack of tautness, revealed in the video. Ya' gotta have taut.
Long ago decided that a self-supporting tent could not possibly rival others in weight unless carbon poles were used.
Now if we only had a highly vapor permeable fabric (like eVent or propore) that was light weight, durable and didn't sag … The tent made of that could have all the kyphosis it wanted to have. Unfortunately, most of the WPB's require the pressure of humidity to work, and so won't work for a tent, as The North Face and others have unhappily found out.
My suggestion is to use what we have for now. For example, Epic Malibu or the material BD replaced it with, but design so the inside water drains out to the ground, not onto the tent floor. Or, use a very low denier DWR polyester inner and cuben outer. Either one, with carbon poles, could produce a markedly larger tent of the same weight. Not complaining, just dreaming.Jan 17, 2012 at 9:03 pm #1826049
@klagsLocale: Northeast US
So it seems that the snowsag is a problem, and the tent looks to be a bit less than taught without the snow. where are the guy out points on the fly at the base in the center where the fly sags in? a simply guy line would make it tight and much more snow resistant…Jan 18, 2012 at 9:29 am #1826211
@earlyliteLocale: New England
There is an additional UL option for pitching the NEMO Obi 1P which Will didn't mention, but is significant in that it's popping up a lot more in mainstream double-walled tent offerings.
It's possible to pitch the Obi 1 without the inner mesh tent and just the fly and a groundcloth kit that has jakes feet. There a picture of this on the Nemo Equipment site for this product, and I've also seen it offered with the MSR Carbon Reflex 1. Not sure the weight savings, but it's got to be decent.
Why do I care? I think it's great that the rest of the industry is catching up and more people will be educated about lightweight options. Bigger companies are capitalized to educate consumers and by doing so, they will increase the number of consumers accessible to cottage manufacturers who don't have the same marketing clout.
Personally, I think it's wonderful that BPL has the guts to review all this non-cottage gear. The industry is changing and hopefully BPL's editorial coverage will as well.Jan 18, 2012 at 10:59 am #1826253
Will mentioned that in the article:
"The tent has a fly-only pitching option, but you need to purchase the optional footprint to go that route."Jan 18, 2012 at 11:01 am #1826254
Also – that ability has been available on tents for well over 10 years.Jan 18, 2012 at 1:09 pm #1826319
@kylemeyerLocale: Portland, OR
Is it just me or does everyone else also not care about reviews like this? This is an expensive, heavy, one person tent. Lighter, cheaper, two person tents exist like the Notch that actually improve your enjoyment of the wilderness and advance the state of the art in shelter systems.
Tents like these are a waste of BPL's attention and resources.Jan 18, 2012 at 4:37 pm #1826398
Why is everyone lining up to bash this review? Just because it isn't made by a cottage company out of cuben fiber? It is a nice, widely available, durable, lightweight, free-standing, (mostly) double wall tent. If anything, people should be happy that larger manufacturers are making lighter weight tents.
And quite honestly, I don't see how snow loading is relevant to this 3 season tent. If you're going out into those kind of conditions, you should probably have something more substantial anyways.Jan 19, 2012 at 9:19 am #1826662
@kylemeyerLocale: Portland, OR
Why is everyone lining up to bash this review? Just because it isn't made by a cottage company out of cuben fiber?
In a nutshell—yes. This is a standard mass market tent using lightweight materials. It doesn't pitch very taut, it's not very aerodynamic, it's not very light, and it can't take a snow load. Why is this being reviewed and, worse even, recommended? I don't look to BPL for reviews on gear I can buy from REI and I bet most here don't either. We pay for the scientific research on down jackets, on alternative rainwear, on interesting new takes on shelter systems. Everyone knows how a poled double-wall tent performs. The only interesting aspect of this review is about the materials and that was a tiny facet of the review.
This is a predictable, staid review about a predictable, boring product. I guess I'd just like to see more focus by the editors on the things that make BPL awesome and unique.Jan 19, 2012 at 9:38 am #1826670
because mainstream gear is evil for bpl ;)Jan 19, 2012 at 1:53 pm #1826810
Not everyone is bashing but there is a bit of cabin fever about.
It's summer, hot and sunny here (not so much today) so I will dissent from the more popular view.
Apart from the fact that I like tent design so I read most if not all the tent reviews I come across, post a nice tent picture and you have my attention.
Those location shots are just lovely, so Will had my attention.
Now a sub 1 kg self supporting double wall (or partial double wall if you prefer) tent is definitely LW in my book.
I don't necessarily have to like it but it is a worthy product to be reviewed here.
Well done Will, once again.
FrancoJan 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm #1826880
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
I'll chuck diplomacy and go way further than Franco.
A bit too much snobola on this site about high priced flimsies.
Come off it – you know bloody well that you are going to get washed away when one of those tailored and tapered gossamer tarp thingies, pitched high enough to not sweat you out, gets hit by some serious soup.
How can you stand to fiddle with all those silly little pegs, anyway.
Sigh – feel so much better now.Jan 24, 2012 at 2:28 pm #1829094
I personally like reviews of main stream gear. The disappointing thing is that companies that make mainstream tents are having a very hard time coming up with new ideas. While a new tent might be revolutionary for a specific company, most likely, it has already been done by a competitor.
I tend to use lightweight double wall tents most of the time now, based on ease of use and lack of fiddle factor. I used tarps for a few years, but for me, it is more enjoyable to just set up a tent in 2 minutes and not have to worry about it or my gear inside it till morning. I can then spend more time doing other things like fishing or exploring.
I totally get it when someone uses a tarp for the enjoyment of using and inventing different pitches/setups. But for me, I want to spend my time doing other things. If this means carrying a whole extra pound, then it is worth it to me.
Back to the review – In my opinion it is beneficial to have reviews of main stream gear for people that would rather buy from a store where they can touch and feel a piece of gear, and if necessary, have the option to return it if it does not work out to their liking. There is also the case that one wants to by gear at a real store because they may have gift cards or “points” to use up. I am all for supporting the cottage industry, but I don’t feel it should be the only acceptable option for BPL’ersJan 24, 2012 at 2:45 pm #1829104
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Nicely made, cute, but not really suited to heavy rain, high humidity, light snow, and bad weather in general. My concern would be whether it really deserves a 'Recommended' rating. It looks a bit closer to Average to me.
CheersFeb 8, 2012 at 4:59 am #1836142
I'm always looking to slash weight from my gear list when it makes sense to do so, but rarely will I sacrifice tent space. I once got stuck behind a freezer as a kid & haven't liked tight spaces ever since, so I have to admire those who can happily squeeze into a Nemo Gogo and the like.
My point is, I did purchase the Nemo Obi 1P a few weeks ago & sent it back after the first setup. I can't tolerate the lack of room, especially when sitting up. I'll stick with my GG SpinnTwinn Tarp until I can find a better alternative in a lightweight 1P or 2P tent.
Thanks for the article, Will.
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