esbit in checked bags?

[Tim Cheek]

Anybody know whether I can fly to Kauai with esbit tablets in my checked bags, legally?

I guess I can't use BPL's Fire Light cubes.

[James Pitts]

Not permitted in checked luggage.

[b d]

Call Hawaiian Air, unless you are going on a puddle jumper … then call them. I assume you are leaving from Oahu and the main island. The puddle jumper pilots are fun and I don't think they would care, unless things have changeed because of homeland security. Is there a main airport in Kauai … pastry shop on the north end is great, best pizza is in the south west? bd

[Carol Brown]

Below is the TSA website for permitted and prohibited items on airlines (carry on and checked). Scroll down to the "explosive and flammable materials" section.

TSA Web Site

You can mail esbits – so perhaps you can send them in advance to someone or a post office? A very good (and easy) reference page for mailing fuels was compiled by GottaWalk – Ken & Marcia Powers. They give the official post office regulation language, then they translate it into "What this means to us".

Mailing Fuel

Carol

[James Pitts]

They are a DOT Division 4.1 Flammable Solid. That means they can be mailed in small quantities via ground transportation only and then only domestically. Make sure to label the package properly. The Post Office will know how to label the package. If in doubt call your postmaster.

[Mike Barney]

You're not supposed to. It requires surface shipping. The official list is here: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm#9

Esbit is (or the main component is) hexamine, the precursor to RDX, a military high explosive. RDX is or can be made by mixing esbit tablets and Nitric acid.

Probably not something you want to have to explain:)

[EndoftheTrail]

No, you can neither carry on nor check esbit onto your flight. Esbit tablets are considered flammable.

Here's a blip on REI's website regarding esbit:

"Flammable item – must be sent via surface (ground) shipping. Sorry, no air shipping. Can not be sent to Alaska, Hawaii, APO, FPO or international addresses."

[Tim Cheek]

Okay, is there a source for it in Kauai? I will only need about four cubes for Pete's sake!

It seems an ordinary candle would be prohibited under 4.1.

I had to waste a can of bear spray last Summer in downtown Jackson, Wyoming because I couldn't mail or carry it home in checked baggage at the end of a bearless CDT hike in the Wind River Range. But, it was plentiful in town, having obviously made it there by air or ground shipping. Apparently one needs a license and they are only issued to those delivering enough of the stuff to really be terrorizing…

[James Pitts]

I dug about via Google Maps on Kauai and found one outfitter that might have some.

Kayak Kauai Outbound
(Island of Kauai)
5070 Kuhio Hwy # A
Hanalei, HI 96714

Tel. (808) 826-9844 or 1-800-437-3507
Email: [email protected]
http://www.kayakkauai.com/

Outdoor programs highlighting river and sea kayaking, biking, hiking, and surfing. Acquire skills while enjoying the natural and cultural resources of Hawaii. Equipment and gear rentals available. Full service outfitter. Also offer vacation rentals on the North Shore and East Side. Rates: Vacation Rentals from $105 per night.

What the heck, it's a toll free call… :)

[Tim Cheek]

They didn't know what esbit was, but they have denatured alcohol, so…I'll change stoves.

[James Pitts]

I saw on their web store that they sell butane as well but in 8oz canisters. Your entire setup won't weigh 8 oz… :)

Man, have a great trip. I am envious. I have never had a chance to hike someplace like this.

[Gene .]

Aloha Tim,

I did'nt see your post until today, right now actually. I lived on Kauai for a few years; and only moved to the Mainland last year. I pretty much backpacked the place inside out, so if you have any questions before you head over let me know.

When you land at the airport in Lihue there is a shopping area only 20 minute walk North.

Don't miss the Lei station near the outer area of the parking lot, as this is the REAL DEAL, not a tourist attraction. The women who make the leis are real artists, I used to scour the backcountry for some of the flowers/plants they use to make them. Many of the more commonly used flowers are shipped in from outside the Hawaiian Islands, estate grown.

Alky stove will do you fine, and fuel is easy to get in any SuperSaver grocery store; as are food stores. Personally, I'd forgo the stove all together as there will be plenty for you to eat w/o cooking, even stuff to carry into the backcountry. You're never going to be too far from a grocery store or place to get something to eat (it is an Island).

[Tim Cheek]

Gene, Like Ross Perot, I'm all ears!

I have just a week. I like mountain views. I have felt compelled to hike the Na Pali coast's Kalalau trail, but I have now read three books, one of which doesn't recommend it. That is where I thought I'd camp and eat a hot meal via a stove.

I have considered the Nualolo / Nualolo Cliffs/ Awaawapuhi Loop.

Let me know what you recommend.

[Joe Kuster]

I too am heading out to HI and have been concerned about stoves. I'm heading out for three weeks for my honeymoon and we both planned to do a considerable amount of hiking on Maui, Oahu and some of the other islands we can catch a boat to.

I'm putting together the camp site reservations right now (gotta keep costs in check for a trip so long) and any recommendations on trails & and camp sites would be very appreciated.

Good to know about the alcohol stoves, I too was hoping to bring an esbit, but I'll adjust accordingly.

[Gene .]

Tim & Joseph,

I want to make a few comments here publicly; then I will be more than willing to help you both out privately as to your individual trips.

There are few places left in Hawaii that are'nt spoiled by over use; so I hope no one else reading this thread will be insulted if I take these guys aside off the forum, if so I'm sorry.

Joseph, I'll start with your post, forget the stove dealie, you'll be able to carry in enough food that you don't have to cook. Just stop in to a local Foodland grocery store and buy whatever looks interesting and is to your taste at the moment. They all have a 'hot food section' in their delis; and also a cold food section of prepared meals.

I was going to say, "..try the POI.." but that would be wayyy too predictable even for someone like myself. Instead try the Hawaiian version of sushi…Spam and rice! Breakfast of the World's best surfers, and a favorite of UL hikers!

Those Islands are green for a reason, it rains, often, bring your best rain jacket, a poncho won't survive the brush along the trails. Water can be found near most trails, expect to filter it. Using chemicals would be an insult to the Goddess of the Islands, and surely you would sprain an ankle forthwith. The water tastes great when filtered.

I don't want to poke a hole in your enthusiasm but for a honeymoon I would suggest you stay in an actual resort, as opposed to a campground. Unfortunately, like many states, Hawaii is no exception when it comes to a homeless population. Most of the roadside/public campgrounds have plenty of 'locals' actually living in them, and they don't take kindly to outsiders.

There is a great racial, and I don't use this word lightly, divide between Native Hawaiians and anyone else. I'm not a native Hawaiian, but you would'nt believe it if you rode around with me on Oahu or Kauai, as I made a mental note to never burn a local,ever. After 3 years there, yeah, it took that long, some locals took a shine to me and I was 'ok', not accepted mind you, just 'ok'.

That said I know of one campground on Oahu's Kaneohe East side that is a safe place to camp at, as long as you stay in the campground after dark. I used to keep my horses across the street and down a ways on some Native land, behind a cattle ranch that fronts the Kam' Hwy. I'll email you that place.

The other fact is that meth is the drug of choice in Hawaii; and the campgrounds crawl with zombie-like critters all day looking for their next fix. The crime rate is higher than Hawaiian travel brochures would like you to believe, after all tourism is their only money biz. Yeah, pineapple, right, no China grows more pineapple than all the Islands combined! I have lots of friends on Oahu, some work for the Govenor herself, Mrs. Lingle. Others are Hawaiian Tribal folks, and local LE, etc. Still I tread with anxiety in some places on Oahu.

If there is anywhere I recommend spending your money on a resort when travelling it's Hawaii. Joseph, you and your new bride can go day hiking til the cows come home from a resort on Maui or Oahu by taking The Bus. It's the safest, most reliable way to travel on the Islands, bar none. Yeah, I owned a pu' truck when I lived there, and everyone in a community knows who's who by the vehicles going by. Renting a car is the same as if you were buying one to give away. I could post pics of what the locals do to rentals, but I'm computer inept! (if someone wants to help me figure out, on a dialup, how to post some nicer pics than my avatar I'm all ears)!

Your new wife will go home having had a great time, and remember it fondly….if you follow my advice.

Maui, stay in a resort, dayhike then have a few nice meals at resturants. You only go to Hawaii once, spend the money make some friends with local workers by doing so, and in a few days ask the maids, not the front desk where locals go, that would'nt mind a few Mainlanders poking around (for food or sightseeing). Usually the working folks are where to get your skinny on the local scene.

I have'nt camped on Maui, so I can't address it. It's smaller than Oahu, so it's doubtful that you'll find much privacy doing so.

Just wear the clothes you have on when flying and buy some shirts and shorts once there if you need them. Ever place is casual to eat, 'slippa's'(flipflops) are worn by most locals, either wear Tevas or low top boots and thin wool socks.

I like the fact that you have the enthusiasm to want 'to catch a boat to an Island' Joseph, trust me, most of here do too. It's not like the Bahamas, and the Winter seas are often rough, with lots of miles between Islands. Plan on hiking Maui for a week, then Oahu for 2 weeks, or get a Island hop on Hawaiian Air over to Kauai for a week. If I was taking my New wife, who hopefully I wanted to stay married to for a long time I would pick one Island and spend time casually exploring. There is so much to see on every Island that I always recommend new folks just slow down. I often used to pick folks up with huge packs, and take them home to let them rest! I'll post a view from my backyard in tomorrow's avatar.

I know you want to keep costs in check Joseph, but trust me, this is the time to drop the coin! (and I'm a frugal guy myself)!! I don't care if you think your new wife is 'Jungle Jane' herself, after the first major rainstorm your wife will wish she were staying at a resort with warm showers. If I was'nt recuping' from some serious medical issues right now I'd actually fly over to show you guys around.

Give me your schedule in a PM and I'll work it over with you, and make some phone calls to the Islands. We'll keep the costs down, and you'll come back telling everyone how swell it was.

[b d]

I gotta give big dittos to what Gene just posted. HI is not fun if you run afoul of the Native Hawaiian people, or the drug crazy "mainlanders" who end up derelict there. I have for many years been an attorney for Hawaiaan Native organziations working to protect the environment and the cultural areas and such. On a honeymoon and without previous experience it is not a good idea to go there and expect to hike or camp like on the mainland. You are better off to stay in a regular place and snorkel (on Maui, hike around any of the islands during the day, and enjoy). That said, there is a place on the Hana side of Maui which is pretty nice and close to a small city / village type place (Hana) and I don't think it would be too bad. It is sad, but pot growing, drugs, and meth have taken a big toll in HI — as well as resentment by native people about tourists. I can possibly get you in touch with a pure Hawaiian kahuness person on Oahu. bd

[Gene .]

Tim, This was the view directly from my own backyard when I lived on Kauai. My avatar is tiny, but it's a glimpse into the type of photos I could put up if someone helps me figure out how to put them into my posts.

Tim, here's my reply to you, since your trip is different from Joeseph's who's going on his honeymoon.

In one week you would be better off enjoying the diversity of the Island, and forsake 'deep backwoods camping'; saving that for a future trip.

I could give you quite the itinerary from West to East and back again.

I agree, the Na Pali Coast is compelling, but typically becomes the end all for backpackers and becomes the Hawaiian AT during the Winter season, when the weather is generally worst for hiking it.

The N'N C' Awa' Loop you chose is doable in 1 week. Carry NO DOWN, only synthetics for the trip. Wear the clothes you'll hike in onto the plane, buy souviner shirts if you want, they'll be places when/if you need one. A pack under 3000 cu is best, any larger and The Bus drivers frown on it taking up too much room (they don't like luggage on the Buses). I figure lots of them must have cab drivers in the family and don't like the tourists circumventing the income of another local by taking the cheaper bus.

Toss the books…dead weight in your pack IMO. F..L..O…W it's the Island style, if you strike up a conversation with someone you never know what doors it will open for you. Firm plans wash away in heavy rains in a local saying. You can tell tourists because they are so uptight and in a hurry. Get off the plane and walk over to the Lei Station and relax, hangout, ask questions, ask to take a photo of the women working making the leis, let them know you'll be stopping back before you leave for Oahu (unless you're flying direct to Kauai). Then walk up the road, through the traffic light, and 20 minutes on your left if you walk slow is a small shopping plaza to get whatever trinkets you want on your way out; or foods you want in your pack, water. You can catch the bus at the far end of this plaza. ASK WHERE! They come every hour, and head East or West. Ask the driver so you get on the right bus.

If you have the coin take a helo tour of the Na Pali, it far outshines the hike, and lets you get a different perspective in a place that's tough to access. The pilot gives a heck of a tour, and you can gauge the trail for yourself. Fly with the folks from Kileau'a helos, their operation is right up the road from where i lived. Worth the money! Go in the morning or late afternoon for the best photo ops.

Tell me when you're going, and if you are arriving/departing from Oahu.

If you attempt to camp at the campground at the Na Pali trailhead you will find, A) no food for the last 20 miles of road, B) a campground full of methheads/alchyies, C) no police assistance for hours at a time. It is Literally THE end of the road replete with waves washing upon it! Ideally this would be the place to campout, and you can, it's right on the ocean, but expect to need a tent as the 'locals' have the best sights with the few trees in the park.

Instead, opt for day hiking/sleeping out overnight and then hitting the Bus for your next place along the route. NOTE: on Kauai there are'nt many places near the towns that you can legally, or w/o hassle camp. If you can covert camp, that is 'seemingly wash into the bush' then i can tell you a few places to camp by PM. Forget cooking, just buy food, and carry it, there are no bears to worry about. But there are millipedes and centipedes that sting like heck, and on the Western end, wild pigs. You need either a hammock like a Clark Jungle hammock, or an enclosed small tent to stay bug and critter free overnight.

bring a digital camera with a few extra battery packs, and no charger, you won't stay anywhere long enough to recharge one! Be low key when in larger groups of young locals, moving on and getting out of the area is your best course of action. Believe it or not there are actually 'turf wars' and animosity between 'West Siders and East Siders' and it's none of your business so don't stick around for a hassle.

Get some really good topos, and stick to the trail loop you picked out if you go that route. If you stray off trail and get hurt it could be a long while until a pig hunter finds you.

Most locals own pit bulls as the pet of choice, they are'nt bred to be friendly. If you encounter any when hiking back off, that's the safe way to hike out there.

How old are you? How fit? It matters to where I can send you. Buy water in stores if need be by the gallon and refill your containers, yeah, it's heavy, but sometimes you can't find water in the bush that's accessible to filter.

In your pack should be water; some food for 1 day if you don't do the loop; warm primaloft jacket/pants to sleep in (yeah, it's Hawaii, but I've seen it go down to 40'f in Dec/Jan/ feb) it's your sleeping bag at the end of the day; a ten essentials kit; maps; camera gear; rain jacket and shorts, your legs will dry!; small umbrella if you have to wait for the bus in a monsoon you'll thank me later (ask me how I know); you can wear the prima loft outfit on the plane ride over to stay warm and SLEEP! That should be it in your pack, using hiking poles will help on wet trails.

Your move let me know what you want to hear further on.

[Gene .]

BD you might know a good friend of mine on Oahu named 'Butch' then that rides a Harley, and maintains the Pupekea area Hawaiian Temple?

I felt i had to post what most people from the Mainland can't concieve BD; that the Hawaii of the movies and their dreams is hard to find.

There are many great Hawaiian peoples, and I know lots, but it's like attempting to go to anywhere you have'nt been, but with MAJOR cultural differences thrown in, plus lack of space for locals to live. It's not hard to step on someone's toes on a Island, and locals tend to pile on, rather than watch, as their entertainment is limited due to minimum wage jobs for the most part.

Lots of deadbeat Mainlanders who try to 'act like locals' and befriend you as a tourist. Stay away from them, they are only after what little money you might give them, or they might just take everything and laugh at you. Remember, EVERYONE on an ISLAND IS RELATED= that means if you do call the police, fair chance he's not going to arrest the son of a friend, his nephew, bro-in- law, etc.

Like I said, I don't do Maui, can't afford the place. Oahu I know well, and there are rough areas all over the place. just because there's a US Army or Marine Base close by does'nt mean there are'nt local gangs right outside the main gates, trust me.

At night your best bet is being on a resort property with security, especially on your honeymoon. Better to have a great memory of a trip than spend all the money and time to get there and then be cheap….Hawaii is not a place for cheap; every item is either flown in or brought by ship. the high cost of living there precludes the locals from affording much other than their square of land and they defend their property rights.

BD, I wondered how to mention all of this politely, I'm not a PC person, but know from living there what outsiders can't possibly envision in 'paradise.

We should email BD I think we know some mutual folks on the Islands, like I said, I have friends' in the Govenor's office.

'Big dittos' does that mean that Ryan will boost my BPL rating? LOL

[Gene .]

BD, There is something to be said for hiking up Diamondhead and watching a Sunrise. If I was on my honeymoon it's one thing i would do to start my trip there on Oahu. Next I would snorkel Hanamua Bay for the morning, then hit the Wakiki strip for lunch, then rest on the beach for the rest of the day and watch some local surf talent.

Fully rested from the flight over now, I would start day 2 with a trip over to Pearl Harbor Memorial, early in the day to beat the busloads, then I'd head North to the North Shore via the West side Hwy, stopping in at the Dole Plantation midday for the Pineapple tour, then continue on to Wahiwa for some Poke (Hawaiian sushi) @ Da' Poke Man for lunch. Then I'd head to Haliewa and visit the town by walking around for a few hours and catch a room*( you can PM me for a place to get a room reasonably that's clean and safe) there for the night. Next morning surf lessons with Surfer Susie right there in Haleiwa for an hour, then continue on down to Pupekea to see Elvis's place, and head up the hill to the Temple, yeah, the one with THE commanding 200' view from the highest point on Oahu (respecting the site and not walking off any paths) watching for whales, then I'd head down to the Tidal pools behind the Pupekea Fire station to look for shells (again, watching for whales that often come in close to shore here), watching the state of the tide to be safe BEFORE entering the water so as not to have my a** handed to me by a large wave. Buy lunch down the road a few miles by catching the bus to Ted's Bakery, probably THE most reknown eatery on the North Shore, giving my regards to the ladies behind the counter, who collectively may stare at you for a moment when you mention my name, then break into rather large smiles(I used to live within walking distance of the place for a year and ate breakfast and lunch there almost daily), continue back up the road on the bus (it stops in front of Ted's) and get off at Pipe to (oops, Pipe LINE for Mainlanders)watch the WORLD'S BEST surfers give the World's Best Wave a ride (I got my a** handed to me here twice and gave up trying, a few friends got killed here while I was watching them surf, this is NOT for average swimmers/surfers) 'Blue Crush' the movie was filmed here, and down the road, had a few friends in the movie, as well as other movies(heck, come to think of it I did work on the set of LOST myself…)moving on…take the bus back to Pupekea where you stayed last night, yeah it was nice wasn't it? Walk with your girl on the beach across the street.

Day 3 on the Bus early! You can get off at the Hilton resort and wander their beach for breakfast with the picnic lunch you bought before you got on the bus! Get back on the bus and ride on down to the campground on the beach, you're staying in a yurt tonight so enjoy this beach for awhile, now head on down to the shrimp farm for lunch, and a tour of the gift shops there (ask the driver he'll know where to let you off). Go see the Mormon temple that's a mini replica of the one in Utah, no kidding! Right across from Sally's feed store. Head down to Kanehoe and check out where Jurassiac Park was filmed, again, bus driver will let you off, you can take the tour. Back on the bus to the yurt for the night.

Early bus out heading South to Kanehoe, go to Chinaman's Hat and enjoy the park there for the Sunrise. back on bus to someplace interesting along the way to eat, then head into Hono(lulu) for the Aloha Stadium Flea market for souviners cheapest place in town, it's ok to be cheap here on your honeymoon! Back to Hono to check out the city itself, and your Waikiki hotel for the evening. Fly out next morning to Kauai.

[Douglas Frick]

>BD you might know a good friend of mine on Oahu named 'Butch' then that rides a Harley, and maintains the Pupekea area Hawaiian Temple?

Butch Helemano…cool guy. Musician. Carves tikis. Does 'native' weddings too (or at least he used to).

Hawaii has a lot of great day hikes. Not so great for backpacking because there aren't many (official) campsites and most trails aren't very long (although a few miles may take all day). There are two section traverses of the Ko'olau but from what I've seen they're unmaintained (which really means something in Hawaii, where a trail can be lost in less than a year) and fairly hairy. Stay on the trail; going cross-country can be fatal. Before you go up something sketchy, think of having to come down when it's wet. Some hunters are poachers so don't alarm them or their pig dogs. Carry lots of water because most hikes are on dry ridgelines, and even valleys can be dry sometimes. If you're going to drink trail water, filter it and treat it: that "four hour" chlorine treatment recommendation is for Crypto (iodine won't kill it; a filter will stop it easily), and Lepto is a wiggly 0.2u bacterium that will go through any but the finest filters (purifier or filter+chlorine recommended). If you get sick within two months after Hawaii _tell your doctor_. People die every year from Lepto that they contracted in Hawaii. I recommend _not_ swimming in those gorgeous pools and waterfalls–Lepto takes 30 seconds to infect via a mucous membrane, and it only takes one. It's just a chance, but it's one probably not worth taking.

If you want company, check out Hawaii Trail and Mountain Club. They have open club hikes most weekends, and the Trail Maintenance crew are good folks (they go 51 weekends a year).

The best Oahu hiking book is "Hiker's Guide to Oahu", Revised Ed.; Ball, Stuart M. Ball, Jr.; UH Press; 2000. You can check it out at the library and find it in most bookstores. My favorites: any of the kokohead ridges (from Kaluanui/Mariner's Ridge to Awa'awaloa/Mt. Olympus); Honolulu Mauka Trail System (sit a while on Daniel's bench at the end of the Pauoa Flats trail, and be sure to top out on Pu'u Ohia/Tantalus for the Town view); 'Aiea Loop; Waimano; Kuaokala (see below); Maunawili Demo Trail; and, of course, Leiahi/Diamond Head (best at dawn). First peak Olomana is good fun if you don't mind a bit of exposure; Second and Third peaks are sketchy and not recommended (almost lost two of the TM crew a couple years ago). There are directions, topo maps and good trail descriptions in Ball.

Ball also wrote "The Backpackers Guide to Hawaii" (UH Press; 1996) which lists the few trails on each of the islands that are suitable for backpacking, along with useful info on doing so. Of the two on Oahu, I highly recommend the Kuaokala/Makua Rim Trail (you need a free permit to access and/or camp). Camp at Peacock Flats (picnic shelters; toilets; no water) and hike through Pahole Natural Area Reserve to Three Corners (the back of Makaha Valley, my home). Spectacular. Do Kuaokala as a day hike even if you don't camp. Out-and-back along the ridge is more fun than looping back on the very rough 4WD road.

You can buy Esbit tablets at Military HQ on Sand Island Road (call for directions; on-line mapping is not sufficiently detailed).

Haven't done much hiking on Kauai or Maui. "Kauai Trails" and "Maui Trails"; Morey, Kathy; Winderness Press; are fair books that describe hiking trails on those islands (besides Ball's Backpackers Guide, above).

Watch out for the surf. Big surf takes people off the beaches every year, and even small surf can severely injure you. Talk to a lifeguard before entering the water. Otherwise, enjoy. The snorkeling is great if you can find the right place (depends on the surf, weather, etc.; ask).

Olomana from Awa'awaloa

Giant Fern on the Maunawili Trail

Makaha Valley from Three Corners

Campground at Peacock Flats

[Gene .]

Douglas, Great post of info, Getting Esbit in Hono' off Sand Island Road is a hassle (my old CG Stn is down off there). It's out of the way for someone not from the island.

You know Butch? I worked with Butch for a year while he was teaching Hawaiian language classes, and we up at the Heiow in Pupekea, plus we had breakfast almost everyday. Great guy and musician. He's still doing weddings as far as I know. He called me over the holidays and we had a great conversation.

I agree about the trails, my avatar shows what happens to a trail after a heavy rain. Lots of day hiking, not much 'backpacking' as we have here on the mainland.

We should get together sometime, Mahalo Gene

[b d]

Gene and all,

Not sure I ever met Butch, you may have heard of Dawn and Hank on Lihei (sp?) side, north side Oahu – over by the Mormon Tourist Center area. Love the Hawaiian people, but ya gotta know braa hows'it doin … love poi, not for the howlies too much a da'time … love all the islands, Maui is actually ok if you book a cheap room ahead or have friends … I gotta check back in with mine there, now that you remind me … the campsite at Hana never seemed too bad, but things change their quick like, yah braa? Hard to explain to people how it is there till they been and stayed there awhile … aina of extremes … good and bad, miss the shave ice, the Heavenly Burgers, the Hawaiian BBQ (god could a person put on weight there — three entrees of starch and some meat) and luaus with the people, and the waters, and all … haven't been in awhile … Molokai is also great … hard place because of the history and all, the sovereignty people have a lot of good ideas and right hearts … too bad, it's da kine in political realities … the person who sent the pictures captured the feel from the heights … you ever go in the Io valley near Wailuku, Maui? That is where Kamehameha got his boost to power when he knocked off his relatives in the search for the kingdom … treading water off the coast of Kihei side on Maui and looking up at Haleakala with a full moon over it was one of my favorite experienceces right after the sun set but you could still see the slick smooth ocean all the way down to Lahaina and over to Kaaholavie [sp?] If you go to Hana side make sure and check the roadside for mangos and avocados and passion fruits in the little boxes at the end of people's driveways, used to be about 25 cents for a huge fresh and delicious mango, but they gotta be ripe … and the fresh pineapples on the east side oahu are incredible. Kauai has pizza (a little place on southeast south of the airport area, can't remember the name), and pastries (on the northside, way up by the furthest north town / village place off the road over to the Tarot areas above Napali). Also, the kayak rides where you paddle from the north down to the beach south of Napili can make people tired, seasick, etc. — they are guided and great, but I would suggest taking a kayak out from the rental guide people on the bay by the Tarot for a day first. Also — Sunscreen and knowledge of your skin is a must on the water there. I don't think people should be afraid of going and hiking or camping and enjoying the people, the beauty and so on, so long as they are familiar with the people who live there and the terrain (psychological and physical) … so, Gene, I think you did these people who wanna go there a favor in opening up the real issues and way it is … love to email more, send me one or I will you, and to all … aloha, mahalo … bd

[b d]

Here are some of my pics, I had to pull some out after reading all these emails and seeing Doug's pics. They are partially to show someone who hasn't been there a few things they can do or see, and to be aware of.

First, here are our young Hawaiian friends on Maui. We took a drive out to Hana from Wailuku and stopped by a poole beside the road … its a great trip, but if you are going to go all the way around to the southside and then back to civilization you should be renting a 4 wheel drive SUV, also check on rain and weather because what the other posters wrote is right … it is treacherous once it rains and the flash floods come on.

Auntie Jane's Hamburger trailer used to be a great place, and the only place to get food once you passed Hana and went down south to the far road which hugs the sheer cliffside going round the tip of Maui.

The terrain is varied, extreme from dry desert to jungle, here is an intermediate terrain, dry actually, on the southside of Maui looking up at Haleakala.

Once you get on the south side of the islands you have to be aware of the desert effects of the weather to be safe, these washes on Maui can fill with water and take out a car on the roadbed.

The coast gets moisture so can be green on one side of the road and desert on the other. Here is an abandoned missionary church from a long time ago, I think someone is trying to restore it, on the southside Maui, Kaupo — across the road to the north it is dry and barren.

On Kauai you can go by the Taro patches to the kayak rental place and take kayaks out in the little bay there, or join a cruise down the Napali coastline. Getting in and out of the water can be a chore so you definitely want to practice and go with guides if you're not perfectly sure of your abilities. There are blow holes on the northside which can take you by surprise if you are standing by the edge.

[Gene .]

BD, I was trying to enlighten folks to the 'other' dimension of going to Da' Kine islands Braa. I had the opportunity to speand a few weeks palin' around with the Dog himself, as real as it gets anywhere. Some days it felt like downtown LA in the cities. When the Sun sets on the Islands things change big Braa…from all Island nice to anything goes, howlie beware.

Lots of great people on the Islands no question, just a head's up that it's not like you're still on the Mainland, and the culture is very different. I hear you on the politics and the Native Rights issues there BD. The Akaka Bill was as close as they got so far. Having sat on the lawn in front of the Royal Palace speaking about the issues with some of the locals was just as expected….Folks travel to the Hawaiian Islands having no clue they are landing on what amounts to Indian Reservations in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. What, with the already limited amount of land there is for the locals, tourists are expected to stay in hotels and dayhike, not backpack and campout. Yeah, there's 'campgrounds' but they are'nt really the 'campgrounds' folks on the Mainland are used to going to, much less security, and many more problems.

Lots to be said for spending the money on room & board while there and day hiking with a really SUL pack IMO. Each Island is it's own unique environment, and travel on them is just as unique.

[Gene .]

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