Stove of the Week: The Trangia 27

[Hikin’ Jim]

I have had zero problems with my Trangia 27, but my Trangia is one of the older ones and is a little thicker and heavier. It's hard for me to imagine a Trangia melting from the flame from the alcohol burner even if the aluminum of the windscreen were of a lighter gauge. I posted a question to the person who reported the problem. I'll see if I come up with anything.

Overall, I think it's a very solid set up. A tad bulky and heavy in the pack, but wonderful in the car.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Miles Spathelf]

I've heard back from Trangia but not from the UK Outward bound program. The Trangia Rep described the two conditions that windscreens have be known to partially melt. These have occurred with the older and newer windscreens but the newer windscreens are more likely to have these issues as there is less material to absorb and transfer the heat…the price paid for having lighter things I suppose.

1. Excess fuel is poured onto the lower windscreen and ground and it allowed to burn.

To me this sounds like a huge user error issue. They've basically created a stove in a stove…

2. The lower airholes are put in the wrong direction in certain wind conditions and a backdraft is allowed to develop and continue.

This also sounds like a user error issue but I, and other I know, tend not to pay as close attention to alcohol stoves while working on camp chores. It seems like it created a down draft kiln within the stove. I have to run some tests but I think the best way to develop a down draft is to place the lower airholes directly against the wind and not use a lid. By using a lid and turning the holes just enough to the side to keep the burner going there shouldn't be the as strong of a low pressure area by the bottom holes and the lid should resist wind from entering the top opening. This could also happen to someone that does not know how wind moves and used their stove directly behind a large object with wind that is moving down into the stove instead of across the stove.

Let me know if you find anything else. Cheers!

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hi, Miles,

Thanks for the excellent information. That makes per sense that if one were to spill a lot of alcohol under and around the burner that the lower windscreen might melt. Something that I think can be easily avoided: Simply move the Trangia a short distance away from the spill before lighting.

The bit about a down draft when the holes are faced in the wrong direction is more alarming. Many times I've been out where the wind will change directions. You may have faced the holes in the correct direction at first, but now the wind has changed. Still, 180 degree wind directions changes are not common, so I suppose there's not too much to worry about. It's good to know just how important proper positioning can potentially be with a Trangia stove.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Miles Spathelf]

Hello,

Yes it is a bit of a concern but the rep I spoke with said it is a rather very rare occurrence and if you are by your stove it should be an easily corrected solution. I guess I put in in the same concern of a NRV valve going bad on me…it could happen but it's very rare and it shouldn't happen if you pay attention/perform maintenance on your equipment.

They've actually had this information posted on their website for some time (http://www.trangia.se/english/2937.faq.html)

Under the "Other" category in their FAQ in #2

Another rep also confirmed that this has occurred for both the older thicker windscreens and the newer "UL" windscreens.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Miles,

Thanks for that.

Their translation into English has some interesting quirks. :) But it's pretty clear what they're talking about. I've always considered the Trangia set up a "fire and forget" type set up. In other words, once I fire it up, I go off to do other camp chores for a bit. I suppose one should be more attentive if the wind is quirky.

2. My pots or windsheild has melted, how could this happen?
If you "dry cook", ie put a pot over the flame without food, liquid or fat, it soon becomes too hot and can cause the pot to melt. The vents in the lower windshield should be turned into the wind. Is it wrong [emphasis added] or if the wind suddenly turns you can get a back flow which causes the melting of the air holes. Spilt fuel on the ground and the windsheild can also cause damage. Have you spilt fuel [emphasis added] you need to remove the stove and wipe it dry.

Speaking of the valves inside of stove pumps, if your pump rod ever rises of its own accord, shut your stove down fast. If the pump rod is rising up out of the pump, pressure is leaking out of the stove's tank or fuel bottle and fuel may follow and ignite. That would be (very) bad.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[al b]

Here is the photo:

[Hikin’ Jim]

Looks pretty good. So, what's involved? Drill a couple of holes at the proper height and insert some rods, yes? And you used coat hanger wire or ?

I suppose you lose the ability to use the fry pan, but perhaps that's OK in light of the weight savings. What's the set up weigh now?

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[al b]

The shortened base weighs 55g (from 128g original ie 43% of original weight, thus a short UL base would weigh 40g):

both such windshields and pot supports (stakes/stainless steel bike spokes) add up to 177g, which is quite good for a proper trangia. A UL pot and a foil flan lid would be 80g + 10gish. Burner: could make a lighter one as desired.

NB dont use galvanised stakes.

NB I never used the frypan: anyway is height from burner would seem to guarantee a tall cold yellow flame and hence soot. Perhaps better to fry in the saucepan anyway..

[Hikin’ Jim]

Interesting results. Question: how well does it work?

And what happens with galvanized stakes? Just my gut feeling, but it doesn't seem like they'd hold up. What actually happens?

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Miles Spathelf]

Galvanized stakes may release zinc oxide fumes which can cause some neurological issues and flu-like symptoms. Though I think you would have to be burning a lot of stakes for that to occur…but that is out of my research area.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Well, hardly worth experimenting with!

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[ben wood]

yeah, zinc oxide fumes can be pretty bad. although i highly doubt you'd be getting poisoned from 2 stakes in an open air environment.

I used to be a machinist and fabricator and we would steer clear of the galvanized stuff whenever possible. I remember a guy getting sick from welding on galvanized steel and it caused some flu-like symptoms, but mostly just a lot of nausea. The remedy? drink milk. As far as I know there isn't risk of neurological damage, maybe in lab rats exposed to extreme amounts?

but titanium shephard's hook stakes are cheap enough, so why bother?

[Hikin’ Jim]

but titanium shephard's hook stakes are cheap enough, so why bother?

Exactly. :)

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Walter Carrington]

"but titanium shephard's hook stakes are cheap enough, so why bother?"
Two BPL members sell them; both have great service.
http://lawsonequipment.com/All-Products/Ti-Hook-Stakes-p883.html
http://www.mydiygear.com/pages/projects/misc/ti-stakes.php

[Miles Spathelf]

You're right. I did some more digging and the only neurological effects are temporary and seem to be the nausea and perhaps some trembling of the hands. They are temporary and one can develop a resistance as it seems the zinc oxide acts as an allergen.

Even some stainless steels can produce similar results if they contain a fair portion of cadmium…guess I'll keep using the titanium stakes. Cheers

[Hikin’ Jim]

Whatever the case, it doesn't sound like fun. If cooking outdoors, the risks are probably minimal, but why risk it?

Ti is nice and safe as well as light and strong.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Nigel Healy]

So I am a Trangia 27 fan of, cough 30 years, and its the dinosaur in my backpack. The issue I find is its the only way I know how to cook and I can cook anything, regular or specialist foods, the simmer ring does a good range of cheap foods. Plenty of dried foods you'd get in regular stores are basically add to boiling water and simmer for x minutes. Now you could use a pot cosy to produce the equivalent of simmering?

I have the Duossal pans, they replaced some pans which were black and pitted and not sure much longer they'd last, the Duossal ones seem likely to last much longer.

I have the kit with the kettle and I like the kettle! The issue is, and I weighed this, my total cooking kit excluding the fuel is weighing more than my 2-skin tent! I can leave the kettle and boil in the pots, that's only a little hardship, but I've tried moving down from 2 to 1 pot and it creates a need to bring something to eat out of, true a plastic bowl is likely lighter than one of the pots but the 2 nested pots is far neater. I could do without the lid, I never cook in as a frying pan but I do use it to keep stuff warm and to keep the pots off the ground and to accelerate cooking times, and the lid makes a secure package, so I don't really want to leave it behind.

I look enviously at some of these weights say of the Caldera Cone or there was a sale of the Jetboil Sol Ti but they are basically 1-pot solutions. Is there anything better out there?

PS in UK there is a Trangia clone made by Gelert, they don't last, the metal is sooo thin they are bent and need to be bent back and don't last the decades that a Trangia does.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Nigel,

Finding something as versatile and as "bombproof" as the Trangia 27 is going to be tough. When you find it, please let me know so I can put it on my blog. :)

You could go with something like a Clikstand with a Trangia burner. You leave the Trangia windscreens at home and just bring the far lighter Clikstand base and windscreen while retaining the Trangia burner that you're already accustomed to.

I've got to believe you could find an light weight aluminum pot set out there somewhere that will fit the set. See the measurement specifications at the end of my blog post. The Clikstand, by the way, works great with a Trangia kettle.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Nigel Healy]

So I like the wide base of the Trangia, because its quite a heavy tall creation you make if you stack the pans on each other (wider warming ontop of narrower).

I've seen some videos of folks putting pots directly on say the stove a ~1Kg weight stacked on something 2" wide.

Windshields, so I dabbled with a mini-Trangia aka Trangia 28 it could not safely cook in my tent porch due to indicate windshield, I tried making a windshield but it would tend to fall / blow away. I've seen folks using small pegs to keep the windshield in place.

Overall, very unsafe to me, but then… its moving away from a lifetime's experience of Trangia.

I had Alu pans first, and was never too keen of the powder coming off the pans. Possibly Ti won't have that same stuff coming off but then isn't Ti producing hot-spots inside which Alu doesn't so more burning? I think a lot of these 1-pot-Ti type setups are good for boiling water but not cooking.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Nigel,

I wouldn't consider the Clikstand to be narrow at all. It's a very nice wide base compared to many alcohol stove set ups that I've seen. Is it as stable as a Trangia 27? No. But if you want something as a stable as a Trangia 27, you'll have to carry a lot more weight.

I see the Clikstand as possibly a middle ground for you. True, it's not as stable as a Trangia 27 (what is?), but it's so much more stable than many small alcohol set ups.

I wouldn't worry too much about aluminum cookware. The link between Alzheimer's disease and aluminum has been in essence disproven. However, if you're really worried about it, get hard anodized aluminum. Problem solved.

Now, look. You're not going to easily get a more durable, better cooking set up than a duossal Trangia 27. If you want a lighter set up, then you'll need to make some compromises. But don't go into "all or nothing" mode. There are choices beyond just a heavy Trangia 27 vs. an ultralight but flimsy/fiddly system. There is a middle ground.

Seriously, look into a Clikstand with some hard anodized aluminum cookware. I think you can find that middle ground.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Nigel Healy]

I was a skiny (140Lbs?) 16yr old and between 3 of use we carried a Trangia 27 and a 3man tent in canvas rucksacks.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Ah, yes, the canvas rucksack. I remember those. I looked for our old one, but alas I couldn't find it in my dad's possessions after he passed away.

Now, I'm older, heavier, and don't have the knees to tolerate heavy gear. I lighten up, yes, by choice, but also by necessity.

Let me know how you get on with finding something lighter yet still suitable than your Trangia 27.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Nigel Healy]

The Trangia 27 is a complete bombproof cooking system, if you're not in a hurry to cook, and/or you're not carrying much weight for long, and/or when its 2 people. In fact the slower cooking becomes time you get back and save as i can be putting on my tea whilst packing up my tent contents and can have my breakfast (porridge) be cooking as I pack my tent, and in the evening I can be putting my tent up via supper is cooking. The windshield and the very wide base means you can place this Trangia 27 well to the side as you pitch and just check it periodically. That actually means in terms of human time spent, its faster than a Jetboil which you have to stand and watch as it boils over in seconds.

The issue is things like lunchtime winter hot drink / lunch – its slower, with it all packed til boiling is well over 10 mins.

On very long backpacking trips the weight does wear you down, I think then there's an argument for the Caldera Cone and just restrict your food to single-pan mode.

I just ordered a Jetboil for one scenario (day hikes lunch stops), probably get a Caldera Cone also just figuring what pot to take.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I've been very happy with an MSR Titan 850ml kettle for solo use. I've even used it for two people, although it's a tad small for two for dinner and hot drinks.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

[Nigel Healy]

Here's some weights
http://www.blacktoe.co.uk/trangia/Weight.pdf

So the Duossal outer pan is 134g, the inner is 130g, that gets you 1L pans, two stack for 234g total. The Trangia pot handle is 48g. The Duossal lid is 131g, the lightest lid Trangia sell is the HA at 80g, or non-stick HA is 154g.

Those weights are not significantly higher than light non-Trangia pans.

How does this sound?

Caldera Cone 34g (typical)
Ti pot griper 24g
Trangia inner pot 130g
Caldera stove 16g
tin-foil lid – 5g (guessing)

Total 1L system excl fuel 209g.

If you paired with the HA lid 80g and used both pans total increases to 423g with 2 pots and a pan, the pan you could rest lip-down to keep any heat nearer the cone or without any pot under and as a regular frying pan with the heat all in the centre area.

The concern is you could not actually place two full pans stacked ontop of each other with the Caldera Cone underneath, I would think it too high for a too-thin the Cone itself, it would tend to be prone to fall over? Certainly could use both pans so you can swap between pans for cooking/eating reasons and use the lid to keep pans warmer?

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