Grand Canyon- Double Crossing aka “Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim”- BPL Group Run

[ben wood]

seriously considering joining this group. I'd have to put in some serious training in the next 6 months. i am not an ultra runner, just a "regular" runner. I can lay down 20+miles of hiking with a weekend pack pretty comfortably, so i need to self-evaluate my abilities. If my fitness level, or lack thereof, seems like it would be a liability to the group I'd gracefully decline. I know there's always the possibility to turn back early, but….don't really want to be that guy.
I've hiked in canyon 3 times and know the real work is coming back out. One of those times was down south kaibab and up bright angel in a day, and it wasn't too bad, but the north rim would be new to me.

if so, i'd be flying into phoenix most likely, or could possibly fly to vegas. phoenix is definitely cheaper from KC. kinda sounds like either one would have a group coming through, right?

[W I S N E R !]

I've actually used that calculator to train for a 50K Mike. It got me to finish just fine. I never followed it exactly, but tailored it to my experience/time. But I think as a rough outline, it's a good start.

It seems to be a pretty standard buildup, typical of most programs I've used/looked at for distance (Jeff Galloway, Hal Higdon, Bob Glover, etc.). Roughly +10% volume per week, with a step back "rest" week every 3 or 4.

Most plans of this length assume you already have a base of at least 20-25 MPW. I've seen 50 mile plans with a more volume than this, starting at 35 MPW and peaking at 70-75 MPW, with longer long days. But I'd wager this is sufficient if you stick with it.

One thing it doesn't address is specificity. I'd certainly make sure to get in plenty of vertical on the Saturday and Sunday runs, as well as making the midweek "medium" run a "pace" day…either running it somewhat faster or getting in more hill climbing.
Conventional wisdom is to do your long days slow, and your medium days at a faster pace. One short day could be substituted for speed work or hill repeats…but most coaches I know argue that if you're new to running, speedwork/repeats might be a little stressful and you're better off just getting your body used to logging regular miles for a while first.

It's not really different from the way I have typically built up, though all my experience so far is mostly in the marathon to 40 mile range. I usually follow the same weekly schedule as in your link, only I vary the mileage a bit. I'll also make Monday a swimming day and mix in pushups, pullups, situps, etc. throughout the week. I've always kept 1 day for pure rest…for me it's Friday, usually the day before my longest runs.

__________________________________________________________

And then there's the other timeless training method:
Run, a lot, on terrain similar to what you want to race.

[David Chenault]

I'd very much like to make this work. Ths logistics, especially insofar as getting cheap flights, are a bit daunting. Will talk to some folks about that soon.

Mid-April is a good time. May is too hot.

Doing proper training up here will be tough. As important as uphill training is, downhill is perhaps even moreso. It's very easy to grenade your quads on all the big step downs.

This would be a good physical step-up to the Wilderness Open (which is in turn good prep for the Classic in AK, just got the Classic route this morning).

[Mike M]

thanks gents- sounds like I have my work cut out for me :)

Mike

[W I S N E R !]

I'm going to start working on a set R2R2R 2012 beer steins for the finishers. Sorry, no belt buckles, I work in clay.

[Art …]

Trophies !!

now I will have to finish.

[Eugene Smith]

Craig, will you be throwing these steins with your feet? I've seen your skills.

[George Matthews]

now if that doesn't motivate you, then nothing will

fantastic!

[George Matthews]

Good chance I will be able to be there then. However, I might try r2-somewhere-then back up depending on my training. One or both of my sons might meet up. They are both runners, but will not be able to do serious prep for the r2r2r. But still would be fun to run down and back – and run with BPL's mad wolf pack for a while at least.

[. ..]

Gotta throw my name onto the list. Ive been on the look out for the next challenge to keep my ass off the couch for the winter and this fits perfectly. The date works for me, I'll be flying in from Canada so if anyone can spare a spot in their car I can do ass/grass/gas from which ever city works best/is the cheapest flight. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. I'm psyched!

[W I S N E R !]

Now that this is generating some momentum, I'm getting excited.

I'm fortunate that I have a good mountain in my backyard: ~4,800 gain over about 9 miles up. Total, it's a nearly 20 mile RT with almost +/- 10,000 feet of elevation. Mirrors the Grand Canyon pretty well for training purposes.

If I could run it once per week and throw in some doubles on it…Maybe by April I'll have hooves and goat legs.

[ben wood]

craig! woah man, now i might actually have to put forth some training. I'm not gonna pass up that stein opportunity!

in all realism, that's really cool man.

[Mike M]

found this on Andy's site- water and mileage chart

http://www.andrewskurka.com/assets/RACE/R2R2R/water-databook.pdf

great idea w/ the steins! :)

[Gabe Joyes]

I did this at the end of last April, it is a great trip. Good luck everybody and have a great trip. Let me know if I can be of assistance planning.

[t.darrah]

When the list is final I might do a custom run of Defeet Aireator socks in grey with black R2R2R on the sides, could be fun.

Just something I'm thinking about, no promises.

[Dan Hewins]

Eugene mentioned this this adventure to me while on one of our recent runs — it sounded like an opportunity that I could not pass up. After a few days of (re)visiting R2R2R reports and the like, I decided that this was, in fact, an opportunity I didn't want to pass up. I look forward to meeting everyone and enjoying the fruits of our running. Train well.

[Dan Hewins]

Recently, a crew of ultra-runners from Colorado went down to run a R2R2R. On this day, Dakota Jones broke Dave Mackey's record becoming the current R2R2R 'FKT' king. Meanwhile, the rest of the group, including the ultra-accomplished Brendan Trimboli, by all accounts had stellar runs. Here is a recent post from Brendan w/ video from their day. Enjoy!

Run Video

edit:

Post run report w/some pics

[Mike M]

Dan- welcome aboard, hope to meet you in the spring

question on water- I have a two liter bladder that I can use in my Talon 5.5 or 11 (undecided on which one, I'm a little bit of a boy scout so leaning towards the 11 :)), should I be investing in a 3 liter?

also I'm guessing we'd get started before sunup to get a good start?

lodging- besides what's available right at the South Rim, is there any towns remotely close?

as much as I like camping, thinking a motel bed might be nice for this adventure :)

Mike

[Art …]

South Rim accommodations :

the village of Tusayan is 1 mile from south rim entrance and about 7 miles from the actual south rim. here is a list of hotels.
Tusayan Hotels

the south rim has a large campground only a couple miles from the rim. it has hot showers and a laundramat.
south rim campgrounds

…

[Mike M]

Art- sounds good, an early start gives me at least some chance of making it back w/ a little daylight (probably not much though! :))

looks like 13 hours of daylight for mid April

11 miles I think I'd be fine w/ 2 liters, we'll see I am after all the boy scout type

thanks for the link for the lodging

Mike

[Dan Hewins]

Thanks, Mike. I am looking forward to joining the festivities.

From what I have read a lot of people go down with a 64oz or 2L race vest type pack (Nathan HPL 20 or Ulitmate Direction Wasp seem popular) and do alright. I've also seen a few people double fisting handhelds and using a pack for clothes/food etc…

It is probably a good idea to figure out where water is and is not available before we go down. According to Skurka's report that Eugene posted it's possible a few sources may still be shut off.

[George Matthews]

http://www.ultimatedirection.com/p-558-wasp.aspx?category=packs

$82 on sale for $57

http://www.rei.com/product/767745/nathan-hpl-020-race-hydration-vest-70-oz

$85

I'm looking at these (what Dan said he sees a lot of people use)

[Dan Hewins]

I think the biggest difference between these packs is weight, which translates into storage capacity. Dry the Nathan is 6oz, while the UD is 1lb 5oz. Storage wise they hold 100 cuin versus 390cuin respectively. Although I have never run with a Nathan pack, I have heard the bladder when full almost completely fills the main compartment (probably ok when your run is supported). I have a UD Wasp and can say that it has ample storage space for whatever kind of food/gels a windshell/gloves/headlamp. Both packs seem to have a good amount of up front storage for whatever you may need on the fly. Both packs are 'race vests' and probably ride similarly (high and tight).

here's a less expensive option for the Nathan: $69.95/free 2-day and return ship.
http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpage-NHPL020.html

[edit] I don't have one to weigh, but Nathan seems to have understated the weight of their pack (see below). I will say from seeing the two in person – I'd still guess that the Nathan is quite a bit lighter than the Ultimate Direction Wasp. Not sure that'd matter much on this trip where we'll need to carry enough to get us through the day.

[Art …]

discussion of water/running packs for Grand Canyon moved to this new thread so the "Trip Thread" doesn't wander too much.

water/running packs

[Eugene Smith]

I thought I would give this thread a friendly BUMP before Thanksgiving, as a reminder to not bury yourself in gravy over the week.

I hope everyone is getting in some quality runs and enjoying the Fall weather, well except Mike, he's probably buried in MT in snow and ice running inside the basement on a treadmill. ;-)

4 1/2 months out, more or less, keep the goal close to you.

Happy Thanksgiving.

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