Sony NEX Lens Impressions

[Chris Townsend]

I must admit I've never had any difficulty carrying a DSLR (and before that a film SLR) so it was accessible. I've carried one in a padded case on a strap slung across my chest on every trip in the last 30 years. Sometimes I've carried two SLRs like this. I'm changing to the NEX system (I've had an NEX 5 for the last year) because it's smaller and lighter and produces the same quality images but if compact system cameras handn't come along I'd have happily stayed with DSLRs.

[Roger Caffin]

> one of my concerns is that a newer, more complex camera might mean taking fewer photos.

Been there, done that. I used to use an expensive SLR with film and many lenses, and I found I was missing lots of good shots. By switching to a slightly smaller camera which I can carry in a pouch on the shoulder strap of my pack, I get to take MANY more shots. Also, the slightly smaller size means I can get the camera out with one hand while I am doing something else. A wrist strap is a very good idea if you are going to do that, btw. That doesn't meant going down to the phone camera or tiny P&S size though.

> I am struck by how clear, sharp, and vivid the images are vs. my humble Canon 880.
I am going to disagree slightly with some comments about this (sorry Rick and Chris and all). The dynamic range found in a jpg image from an ideal silicon sensor is 256:1. That is because the data has only 8 bits resolution. This is a far cry from the 3+ decades available from Kodak Gold etc!

However, that is a bit misleading for 2 reasons. The first is that the transfer function found in modern cameras is S-shaped, which gives the *appearance* of greater dynamic range. The second is because noise plays a big part in how an image looks. If the sensor is cheap and noisy, the dynamic range looks much worse. (Little P&S and phone cameras have tiny CHEAP sensors.) If the electronics uses lots of gain (=high ASA), the noise will rise.

This leads to a couple of questions. Do you use your camera on Auto? If so, be aware that it will often push the gain/ASA up to keep the shutter speed fast. That can put a lot of noise into your pitures, which will make them look lower in quality. The solution here is to never use Auto; use P(rogram) instead and keep the ASA down. This may mean you need to rest the camera against something at times: do so.

The next question is how have you set you camera to save the images? If you are using medium to high compression, then image quality will suffer. I never use anything but the maximum allowed image size, or even RAW. I don't think the 880 can save as RAW however.

Then there is cheating – well, editing. Many of the photos I see on the web have been enhanced. A photo-editor can balance the colours and boost the contrast a bit to make the image look better. A little adjustment of the jpg settings can boost the edges just a little to make images look sharper. Oh, there's so many trick to the trade! (And Playboy Bunnies are 50% photo-enhancement, along with any other 'enhancements'!)

I am not saying you can't take better photos with a more expensive camera, but I am saying that the skills needed to properly use a DSLR can be applied to a pro-compact to get VERY similar results.

Cheers

[CW]

Roger – that's why I have an Oly XZ-1 for light and fast trips. Good combination of weight, price, and a sharp bright lens with an ok zoom range.

I looked hard at the Nex and other mirrorless systems but couldn't justify the cost since I already had an investment in Nikon.

[Matt Mioduszewski]

I used a decent P&S up until this year. Was able to take many great shots, camera did a ton of what I wanted, with ease most of the time. The main issue was dynamic range during a lot of mountaineering where you have bright white slopes and dark green valleys below. There were work arounds for this but a bigger better sensor help a lot.
That said with my P&S I was able to make gorgeous calendars that I gave to family/friends each christmas (about 25-35 copies each year)–this was from an 8mp camera and most of the shots were blown up to the full size of the calendar. Generally the colors were warm and rich, things not grainy, and resolution fine.

The NEX line has been an incredible upgrade for me in terms of getting the significantly higher IQ without sacrificing much at all as far as size. I almost bought a DSLR (canon) but after I watched people lugging them around their neck up Mt St helens in the winter and then got to use a guy's NEX to take some group shots for them, the seed was planted. Yes it is not quite as pocket-able. Yes I cannot just use AA lithiums. Yes the native mount lens availability is limited right now. BUT, all these are outweighed by quality of the pictures I get and the increased photographic capability I have with the equipment. I had maxed out the P&S's capabilities but I imagine getting something like the latest Canon G12 or whatever, would not disappoint and be quite field-usable. I wouldn't even consider a fullon DSLR in a million years now. Small systems will only grow in popularity, features, and quality. I can subtly bring the NEX with 16mm to a dinner party. There is no subtly with any of the DSLRs.

[Jason Elsworth]

I have had a small photography and writing business for about 12 years now, but in the last two years it has been pretty much in hibernation for various personal reasons. In the early days I concentrated on landscape photography and then in later years on bird photography. My photos were published in magazines and books, I contributed to a couple of stock libraries, sold a few prints and did a little commissioned work.

When I carried an SLR I didn't take many photos, but those I did were of high quality, often taken at either the end or the start of the day. I always used a tripod and setting it all up, trying different compositions, bracketing exposures (film days), using filters etc. just took too long to stop that often. Also I never liked carrying an SLR round my neck whilst hiking.

On recent trips I have just taken a point and shoot and have really enjoyed taking a lot more photos as I go along and have ended up with a much better record of the trip. Unless you are going to devote some serious time to your photography whilst hiking , or are just into photography, then I feel that for most people a DSLR is a bit of an over kill, as there are some excellent options now available.

I am now looking to swap my entire DSLR system for something smaller, as my photography will now be mainly for on-line display and some magazine use. However, it is a somewhat bewildering choice and choosing backpacking gear is a breeze compared to choosing between photo systems.I would likely already be on the waiting list for a NEX-7 if the lens line up was a little more inspiring, as it looks lovely. Then some days I decide to go with the Olympus system :). Then there's the Fuji X-100 and the possibility of using manual focus lenses with an adapter on the 4/3 and Nex cameras – help:). Finally there are the high end compacts like the XZ-1 and the Fuji X10. Hoeing to make some kind of decision pre Christmas.

[Jacob D]

There are very few reasons why someone would actually need an SLR any more, but they could be good reasons if they matter to the camera user.

– Faster autofocus
– Advanced AF features, like subject tracking
– Wide(st) selection of AF'ing lenses vs. other camera systems
– Ergonomics & handling

Aside from backpackers who are capturing fast moving wildlife in action the first three reasons are of little significance. As far as handling goes, I definitely wouldn't fault anyone for wanting to stick with an SLR (or SLR-like) camera.

Now that large (APS-C and full frame) sensors are found in bodies that look like rangefinders and, in the case of the NEX, a P&S style body, all of the other benefits can be reaped including the wider dynamic range, better ISO, better resolution, raw file format, raw file support in Lightroom, and so on. There are now several fixed-lens large sensor cameras, as well as interchangeable lens versions such as the NEX which paves the way for SLR users to make the jump.

I am a reluctant convert from a Canon 5D, which in my experience has been an excellent camera even at 6 years old. That's like a millennium in the digital world, but it still manages to keep up with some of the best modern cameras (as far as image quality goes). The NEX-5N is on par with the 5D and, in some respects, surpasses it. It's exciting to find this kind of performance in such a small system. Sadly my wife has mandated the sale of my 5D as she won't give up her SLR as of yet. That camera has photographed both our kids as babies! She's a tough one, someone buy me a beer ;)

I admit to liking the prospect of the NEX-7 as far as ergonomics and handling are concerned (this is the camera that initially sparked my interest in NEX's in general) but the 24mp sensor leaves me cold and I doubt I will have any interest in it. I am very curious though to see some how the files look when production models are available, especially with the Sony-Zeiss 24/1.8 that's coming this fall.

[Brian Austin]

Good Luck Selling your 5D. If you are lucky you will get $100 for it.

True, its far more likely to sell than my Sony r1 that is on the fritz with metering problems…

[Jacob D]

Hahaha… Brian. I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek, but market price for a 5D in good condition is about $1000 :)

[Bob Gross]

"I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek, but market price for a 5D in good condition is about $1000"

That depends on whether the Canon 5D is a Mark I, Mark II, or Mark III.

–B.G.–

[Tony Wong]

Rick,

Brillant advice and very much appreciated.

In fact, I want to thank everyone here for the input and education.

I am pretty excited at the future possibilities of what this camera can do for me.

Having shot rediculous number of shot and having sorted them out for my past photo essays, my shots tend to fall mostly with large landscapes and shots of people on the trail and in camp.

Occassionally, I will take some Macro shots of flowers along the trail.

I guess from that perspective the NEX-5 with the pancake 16mm might be the lens for me to have on my camera most of the time and then swapping to the kit 18-55 mm while in camp or at lunch time to capture close up shots of people.

If that sounds reasonable, it might be a great setup for me as the 16 mm lens makes the NEX-5 more "compact" vs. having the 18-55 mm lens on all of the time.

Given that I am shooting outdoors, the ISO is low…in fact, in manual mode, I like to push the ISO down to 80 to get the best looking shots that I can, but I just have to make sure I am really stable to prevent blur with my pocket camera.

One of the things that Jacob mentioned about this camera is that there are programable buttons. Three of them if I recall???

I would definitely program one of them for panoramic shoots, which I love to take.

Another one would be for night time shots….which might involve a higher ISO preset.

Chris mentioned that Ryan uses just one lens and that might appeal to me.

However, I have a feeling that as I get into this and with Jacob's expert guidance, I am going to see the advantages of having a second lens in the field to give me more flexibility.

I am completely blown away with the images that have been posted up with this camera!

Me wants now! (But will have to wait to buy new shiny toy later).

-Tony

[Matt Mioduszewski]

i actually use the 18-55mm as my all-around lens. Only occasionally outdoors do I put the 16mm on, and often that is in conjunction with the WDA (wide angle adapter).

as far as customizable buttons, you can do this on the NEX-5, but the NEX-C3 and NEX-5N I think give even more options as far as settings.

The ones I change the most are: ISO, HDR, and White Balance.

I have personally found the pano feature of the NEX to suck (or maybe it is me!) as far as lots of poor alignment and obvious edges where it has joined the pano. I end up better just taking 3-5 pictures and joining them myself in a program.

[Rick M]

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[Tony Wong]

Rick,

Truly appreciate your input and thoughts.

I know that hte pocket camera that I have serves me well, maybe by evidence of the numberous photos that I have posted on BPL of the trips that I have taken.

I admit that there is more hassle here with this sort of camera, but I believe that the "better" looking photos might be worth it for me.

I fully admit that I have photo envy going on here or perhaps I am just considering this step as part of moving on to learning more about photography.

Not looking to publish, sell, or have photography as a living.

This i purely for my self enjoyment to look back at the memories of the trips that I have had and sharing them online with the photo essays on BPL.

Maybe this helps put some context to what I am trying to do.

-Tony

[Matt Mioduszewski]

really comes down to enjoyment!

like i laid out, I did plenty great stuff with my point and shoot. But, there was more I wanted. Better dynamic range, better low-light performance, better night photography. While there is plenty of technological trickery to make up for not having a large sensor, the short and sweet is that a larger sensor (of quality) will give much better results in a variety of areas, all things being equal with the photographer behind the camera.

On a strictly analytical level for all of life, people would be best off with a whole host of simplified and exceedingly cheaper options (like smaller homes, less/smaller cars, healthier diet, etc) but that analysis isn't really tenable for how people actually live.

Same goes for camera, people like to have options. Whats the worst thing that happens if you spend the money to get into the NEX system (or anything beyond P&S basically) and find you don't like it? You sell it used, get back some money, and home in on the better photo-enthusiast p&s of the day like whatever the G12, etc evolves into.

Additionally, you may be very happy with your ASP-C sensor produced photos and find yourself slowly migrating into large prints simply for your own home or family/friends. Or may grow as a photographer and find yourself further into the system.

[Rick M]

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[Rick M]

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[Cayenne Redmonk]

I could be wrong, but I think Tony wants better quality images from his camera, not to become more of a photographer maximizing lenses and manual control of the focus, shutter, and aperture.

The Sony NEX would be great for Tony, IMO. It can take pictures fast enough to satisfy his needs at home and on the trail. The images are sharp. More manual features satisfies a photographer, but the small sensor on the dlux5 left me unimpressed.

Something like the x10 could work well for him, but a dp1 would be far too slow, quirky, and lacking in battery life.

The manual small sensors provide creative control, but not better image quality IMO.

[Rick M]

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[Bob Gross]

"Using a small tripod will let you shoot at base ISO more often by allowing longer exposures and judicious use of polarizing and ND filters will help you with difficult lighting situations."

Your statement assumes that you are shooting at a stationary target.

Typically, I am not, and I don't think there is a compact camera that can get the job done for me.

–B.G.–

[Rick M]

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[Bob Gross]

To go backpacking without any camera would be a sin, I guess. I don't know if it is a venial sin or a mortal sin. Ultralightweight backpacking gear techniques simply allow me to carry the necessary photographic gear and still cover the necessary miles per day.

–B.G.–

[Franco Darioli]

The GoPro is indeed a remarkable camera but not exactly a replacement for an enthusiast camera.
Great for action movies and for wide views but you take everything with the equivalent of a fisheye lens (127 or 170 diagonal angle of view) so that excludes a lot of shots people take with their compacts but introduces a previously not so affordable perspective.
Franco

[Eli .]

Rick,

I think you're saying something different than Roger was. I agree with his perspective that (paraphrasing) you should bring the camera that you'll actually use and that super high megapixel ratings are more than most people will need most of the time.

It sounds to me like you're implying that because this conversation is focused on technical merit that the people involved aren't concerned w/ the artistic component. I don't think this is true. I also don't think its true that even *most* consumer digital P&S cameras are technically on par to a decent SLR or what I've seen from the NEX; even when the eventual output is a relatively low res display . If your experience doesn't match this (mine does) then check Jacobs blog for examples or just google for comparison shots. The difference is vast to my eye.

Maximizing the technical quality of an image maximizes the artistic potential of the photo as the photographer isn't limited by a low-information source.

That said, I'm currently taking pictures with an iPhone :(

[Tony Wong]

Cameron,

Thanks for giving your opinion on this.

Given that you have taken trips with me, you know exactly how I shot my shots and under what conditions, so your thumbs up means a lot.

In fact, I have you to "blame" for starting me out on this path.

After seeing the shots of our JMT trip that you posted on BPL, it definitely gave me a case of camera envy.

Mixing that with Jacob's education on photography from his website, I really got an education, plus his recommendation to take a look at the new NEX-5, it started me down this path.

http://hikeitlikeit.com/2011/photography-and-backpacking/

To add to the discussion on this, maybe I should mention how I take shots.

I am basically taking shots on the run here, traveling between 10-15 miles per day, sometimes a little more than 20 miles per day.

I probably get about 5-10 seconds to pull out my camera, compose, and to shoot my shots. Any longer and I am going to be left behind by the others.

I so have a tripod, but I have not taken it with me on a trip in 3-4 yrs.

http://www.rei.com/product/777249/pedco-ultrapod-mini-tripod

Cameron gave me the nickname/trail name, "Snapshot" and it is probably accurate.

Given the limited amount of time that I have, I am heavily relying on automatic features and a simply camera menu layout to access features.

I have never used features to adjust my exposure plus or minus, I simply use the Auto Lock feature to control exposure and recompose my shots to adjust for lighting conditions.

Looking at my camera, and I have no idea of what this means, here is what the lens says:

5.0 – 20.0 mm 1:2.8 – 5.8 (Zoom Lens 4xIS)

Okay, now that I think about it and having recalled Jacob's essay on lenses, this must be the F Stops?

Given this is what I am used to shooting with and my understanding that my camera is a Wide Angle Lens, I am hoping that the NEX-5 with the 18-55 mm lens covers the same range that I am currently getting.

If it does, great!

Nothing "worse" than I am getting now.

I am hoping to:

1. Have a general improvement in my shots (not sure how to define this)

2. Better low light performance for dawn & dusk….night time shots

3. Similar easy of use like the pocket camera that I have now

Cameron is correct in that I am not looking to have more manual control over the camera…simply looking for better results via larger sensor?

Frankly, if I can use the 18-55 mm "standard" lens for all of my shoots I would be a very happy camper indeed as I really would not have time to swap lenses while on the go.

That said, I can see, like UL backpacking, having the option to have a wide angle lens like the 16mm pancake, would be a nice option to have to give me more options in the field.

I could see coming into a Canyon like Deadman's Canyon in SEKI where I would appreciate putting the 16 mm lens on and then shooting the whole afternoon with that on, but I would not want to be continually swapping between lenses the whole afternoon.

My style of hiking just does not permit it.

I am first and foremost, out to hike, taking the pictures is very important as a means for me to remember and document my trips.

That said, I am incredibly honored that everyone has been so passionate and freely sharing their thoughts to guide me on this decision…I am lucky to have a community of friends here.

Hope this helps.

That said, between the photos that I have seen posted up and what I have read here, I am pretty convinced that this should be the camera for me.

-Tony

[Bill Law]

I haven't seen the discussion that started this thread. But, coincidentally, I had asked about the lens Eric used in a Desolation Wilderness trip report he posted a while back.

I too carry only the 16mm lens with my NEX. Where I hike, it's the ideal lens, if perhaps not wide enough. I am more than happy with the image quality of the pictures I take using that lens.

I carry it in the Sony hard-sided case (don't know what the model number is, it's a bit pricey at $45 or so). It only fits the camera with the pancake lens, which is Ok for me. It is very lightweight and I find it works perfectly hanging from the shoulder strap of my pack, or from my belt. Getting the camera in and out is pretty effortless.

I also have the SEL18200 lens and the SEL1855 (the latter never mounted on the camera).

I was replacing a Panasonic TZ with long lens and thought I would want a telephoto lens with the Sony. I tried carrying it on the camera for one hike (around my neck!). I tried carrying in my pack. What I found was that when I used it, it was mostly to take picturs at 18mm. And stopping to swap lenses just was too inconvenient (especially since I'd just be taking shots at 18mm anyway). Now I use the big lens around home or carry it in the car to stop and take pictures when I stop at Olmstead Pt. on the way back home.

Of late, I have started carrying another 300mm (or so) lens: the one built into my old Panasonic TZ. It is way more compact and lighter than the SEL18200. And "swapping" lenses is trivial: I just grab the camera from the other shoulder strap. But the truth is, I never even used it on my last trip, and maybe not the one before that. But if a marmot popped his head up, I'd be ready to snap off a shot.

I experimented with MF lenses. I have a MD Rokkor 45mm pancake lens. But with adapter, it is almost exactly the same length as the kit 18-55. And it weights slightly more, to boot.

If I could find a case that conveniently carried the camera with the 18-55 lens, I might be tempted to try that. But for hiking purposes, the 16mm is all I probably need.

I also fitted my lens with a graduated ND filter which I've left on ever since I got it. I thought that might help with the typical bright-sky conditions I use it in. Not sure about that, but it protects the lens if nothing else.

As to the debate about mirrorless vs. DSLR vs. P&S: I take pictures of what I see and want to have some memory of (not sure why I want the memories, but let's ignore that). That means pictures of what I see in the mountains, and pictures of my grandchildren. A P&S may well work as well in the mountains, provided it has reasonable image quality and a wider lens (24mm). But they suck at taking pictures of kids. I've never put the flash on my NEX. I'm perfectly happy with the indoor shots at ISO6400. There's no shutter lag. With my P&S, I might as well have closed my eyes and shot in a random direction. The odds of catching the kid standing still and in focus when the flash went off would be just as high, probably.

I'm going to try out the 18-55mm around the house for the portraits. When I head out for a hike, I'll put on the 16mm. I hope that will prove to be pretty close to the ideal system for me. Until I upgrade to the next NEX (features of the 7, but with smaller sensor, I hope).

Bill

BTW, one can see most of my pictures at http://williamlaw.shutterfly.com. I've been taking pictures faster than I can post them, fortunately. I've got 3 trip reports yet to be written.

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