Sep 20, 2011 at 4:45 pm #1279583
has anyone had any experience with this gun?
S&W 317 Airlight
12.3 oz in .22 cal
as a disclaimer: after looking up other posts on firearms on BPL, the discussions tend to get hijacked into vitriolic non-topic rants. can we please just leave it to the gear..
i understand that hiking with firearms is not for everyone/is not legal everywhere, but my question is made under the assumption that one chooses to carry and has made up his/her mind about the choices utility.
thanks in advanceSep 20, 2011 at 4:56 pm #1781346
@mtnjimLocale: Shenandoah Valley VA
For what it is worth. One of my favorite revolvers. Lost mine white water canoeing:(
JimSep 20, 2011 at 5:06 pm #1781350
if read that the trigger pull is hefty, around 12-13 lbs.
did this affecting accuracy, or did it just take some acclimatization?Sep 20, 2011 at 5:25 pm #1781354
Not sure what your intended purpose is but the Ruger identified in the .380 thread weighs close to that and might serve.Sep 20, 2011 at 6:00 pm #1781374
There is a very simple reason for the "vitriolic" comments on gun threads posted here.
That is because it has nothing to do with backpacking.
Try Chaff , Philosophy and Technique or Other Activities.
FrancoSep 20, 2011 at 6:51 pm #1781399
@thefatboyLocale: St. Louis
>> There is a very simple reason for the "vitriolic" comments on gun threads posted here. That is because it has nothing to do with backpacking.
He's asking about gear that I presume he'd like to take backpacking. No different than asking about bear spray, or a cell phone. If, for whatever reason, it makes his backpacking trip more enjoyable, then it qualifies.
As for that model, sorry, I have no experience with it. I don't "pack" while I pack, but that's mostly because the Peoples Republic of Illinois can make life hell for anyone caught doing it.
I don't imagine the heavy trigger pull would be that big a deal unless you're hunting with it. If you're looking for protection and general peace of mind, my guess is you wouldn't be firing at small or distant targets.Sep 20, 2011 at 7:02 pm #1781402
If I carry mine with me then I consider it gear, your off base Franco. I carry a Taurus 605 27oz loaded.Sep 20, 2011 at 7:07 pm #1781403
The main use would be for the opportunistic taking of small game, so I was thinking it could effect accuracy..Sep 20, 2011 at 7:19 pm #1781408
the 317 kit gun is nice little revolver, the double action is decent, not great (a good gunsmith could probably smooth the action out w/o too much work)- the hi vis sight is OK, little gimmicky imo
w/ practice it makes for a nice mountain grouse gun (talking the not so smart mountain grouse :))
I like the plain 317 even more, 2" barrel- so takes even more practice (but .22 ammo is cheap :))- it's lighter yet and so small it's easily carried just about anywhere
while a .22 doesn't make the greatest defensive piece, I'm confident that with 8 rounds of .22 LR I could make someone very unhappy- there is also a .22 Mag version of this revolver as well
what I don't like is the terribly high price they are commanding, $600-ish for a small .22 seems awfully excessive too me, but evidently the market obviously bears that priceSep 20, 2011 at 7:30 pm #1781414
See the 22 cal revolver weighing 4 oz.Sep 20, 2011 at 8:37 pm #1781441
@rayestrellaLocale: Northern Minnesota
Yeah, they are great for shooting out your out of control cooking fire… ;-)
OK, that was uncalled for. I don't know about that model but my step-mom (and ex) have the Lady Smith which is heavier. (And mom does not hike with hers, but the ex bought hers just for the AT.)
While I don't carry normally (but have when conditions rarely warranted) I won't question it if you feel you need it, but a .22? What will that protect you from, cans? That ain't for hunting, good luck hitting anything past 25 ft. Or stopping anything at all.Sep 20, 2011 at 9:03 pm #1781450
for a reason….
Now when I pass someone on the trail I'll wonder if they're "packing".
Is it really common for backpackers to bring guns because I'll start bringing an orange vest.. but how much is that going to weigh me down? I don't want to get shot off the trail while digging my cathole.Sep 20, 2011 at 9:11 pm #1781456
"as a disclaimer: after looking up other posts on firearms on BPL, the discussions tend to get hijacked into vitriolic non-topic rants. can we please just leave it to the gear.."
Yes, that's because it's Backpackinglight, not Backpackingwitheverythingyoumightneedforallpossiblecontingencies.
So when you carry something relatively heavy based on some statistically insignificant "problem" it might solve, you will be questioned to the relevance of it. It's why I don't take my chainsaw in case there is deadfall on the trail. Or my mountaineering tent for my day hike in the foothills. If I did, and asked about it on GEAR (not chaff or on whiteblaze or sumthin'), I'd expect BPLers to ask questions, tell me it's not relevant, clown and ridicule me, etc.Sep 20, 2011 at 9:24 pm #1781462
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
If someone meant you harm you, I doubt a "law" would stop them from carrying. Weapon "free" zones are a fallacy in a country with laws against unreasonable search and seizure.
A .22 revolver just seems silly for any kind of self defense. If I had to go with .22, I would rather have a semi automatic that I could follow up with more shots very quickly. Better than nothing, but I would reconsider that caliber. In my experience, even double action revolvers are hard to use for unloading at a target.
That is a really light pistol though. I have been looking for something similar. If you wanted to just shoot around or go after some rabbits or squirrels, that might be an awesome choice. Just realize it's limitations. A longer barrel might be better for hunting.Sep 20, 2011 at 9:25 pm #1781463
Which parks specifically Jennifer? Because if you've got the misconception that guns aren't allowed in all national/state parks, you're grossly misinformed.
This has been covered before, but there's a lot of misinformation about where guns, concealed or otherwise are or are not allowed.
In most (if not all?) cases, firearms are allowed in national parks, as long as the carriers comply with local laws concerning such transportation. In most places in the country, open carry of firearms is completely legal, regardless of how rarely it's practiced. Generally, concealed carry however is restricted by permit.
For instance, in North Carolina where I live, not only is open carry unrestricted (however rare), you're even completely within your rights to carry a loaded handgun into a bank, so long as you aren't brandishing it, or attempting to commit a crime. The act of carrying the gun, isn't however a crime, so long as it's a legally owned firearm. Is it wise? No, only due to the inherent risk to yourself. It is however, an exercise of your constitutional rights.
I run into people open carrying pretty regularly on NC and GA trails. They've always been quite amiable.
There are even laws allow non-permit concealed carry in campsites, which are considered temporary residence.
If you've been passing hikers all this time without worrying, why start now?Sep 20, 2011 at 9:32 pm #1781465
As to the OP, the specified caliber is generally considered useless for self defense.
If you're looking for something to take small game like squirrels, rabbits, etc.. I'd check this: http://www.rutalocura.com/PRK.html
Personally, even though I'm a concealed carry permit holder, and exercise my rights to open carry whenever I feel like dealing with all the BS. I leave my firearms at home on the trail. It's not worth the weight. I am however confident in my ability to defend myself in hand to hand encounters, and usually carry a medium or large fixed blade knife for camp chores/bushcrafting, etc, and I imagine it would be a good deterrent. Believe me, only complete psychopath would mess with a guy carrying an 18" khukri, or even an 8" fixed blade.Sep 20, 2011 at 10:11 pm #1781477
No firearms. And usually no dogs or fires.
This is not fear that someone is going to purposely shoot me or try to harm me so I'm not planning on learning hand to hand combat or carrying a large blade, this is fear of accidentally being shot while I'm going 100 yards to drop my bear can, "use my trowel" or if i'm in one of the special trails I do bring my dogs they'll get shot. I'm going to guess though that guns on trails is more common outside of california.Sep 20, 2011 at 10:26 pm #1781478
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
I don't think you see those signs on trail in National Forests ,even in California.Sep 20, 2011 at 10:29 pm #1781479
@davidadairLocale: West Dakota
There seems to be a shortage of decent light kit guns out there. The 317 has hi-vis sights which are fine for self defense but not accurate enough for small game. For that you need to replace the rear sight with a notched blade and the front with something like a gold target bead. Then it would be perfect… if only it had a 4 inch barrel. But it doesn't ..it has a 3 inch barrel.. which is a bit tricky to shoot well. The SA trigger is ok but really could use some gunsmith work to clean it up some.
Unfortunately the S&W 317 comes up short in too many places for me to recommend it as a kit gun. Might be an ok self defense gun for your dear old grand mother though.
Keep looking young man.
Some of the vintage kit guns are heavy but at least you could hit something with them.
The tigoat 22 would be a much better choice as a light weight meat getter IMO.Sep 20, 2011 at 10:36 pm #1781482
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
Discharging a firearm is illegal in a national park. Same with hunting. So I don't think you need to be worried about someone target shooting without knowing what's behind their target and hitting you or someone mistaking you for a deer and shooting you before they have a clear view. Those are the two main reasons that you would accidentally be shot. Either way, despite the huge number of people who go out hunting each year, accidental shootings during hunting season are still ridiculously low (relative to how many people are out there).
Maybe you are worried about someone mistaking you for a bear while you are coming back to the trail and firing at you. If you can show me one instance of someone shooting a person thinking they were a bear, I would be very surprised. That's just a silly and unlikely scenario. Maybe someone would grip their holstered weapon to and wait to see what you were. Either way, someone is going to wait to shoot at something until they have reason to believe it is threatening their life.
That is even assuming they have a gun in a California national park. National Parks work like any public place. In California, you would have to be open carrying unloaded or concealed carrying with a license (those are really hard if not impossible to get in most counties). It doesn't work like a national forest where you can freely carry. I don't know about all the signs, I have seen a couple, but they are likely old (firearms legalization was only in 2009) or just left there to discourage people from hunting or shooting around. In many places all over the country, firearms are illegal in state parks regardless of what's legal in public. Depends on the park and state though. In California it's illegal in state parks.
I understand that you have a fear of accidentally getting shot, but imo it's an irrational fear in a park. It would be a very real concern if you were hiking in a popular hunting area in the height of deer season.
Nobody is going to shoot your dog unless they try attack them. Put a bright collar on them so people will know they aren't strays. A lot of aggressive dogs have been unnecessarily killed, but it's within the persons right to use some level of prejudice in defending themselves or their family. Still, unless your dogs are rabid, I wouldn't worry about it.Sep 20, 2011 at 10:56 pm #1781487
Is what this guy says he wants to shoot. My dogs are small mammals. If you can't discharge it why bring it? As for the signs, I just hiked the JMT that goes through Yosemite, Sierra Natl., john muir wilderness, and Seqouia natl forest and there were signs as you entered each area but as someone else said they changed the law in feb 2010 so they may have been old. This, though, is current from california state parks:
LOADED FIREARMS AND HUNTING are not allowed in units of the State Parks System. Possession of loaded firearms or air rifles is prohibited. Exceptions are for hunting in recreation areas that have been designated by the State Park and Recreation Commission.
And that was my actual point. There is probably a reason they are not allowed in most areas. These "units" are all the trails and these "recreation areas" are open areas. There was probably a reason why they were prohibited before feb. 2010 before the nra spnsored a bill to revoke the law.Sep 20, 2011 at 11:25 pm #1781492
@ OP – any particular reason for interest in that gun and caliber?
@ Jennifer – maybe better to start a chaff thread and keep OP's thread on topic rather than get political with comments?Sep 20, 2011 at 11:34 pm #1781494
someone asked about incidents where people shot other people mistaking them for bears … supposedly …
i believe in the legal right to ignore BPLers "moral" preaching on legal activities
;)Sep 21, 2011 at 12:31 am #1781506
@ OP – any particular reason for interest in that gun and caliber?
well i guess i should clarify: its a tool for opportune small game. i split time between mid-atlantic and AK, and i go on some big game hunts with my best friend in AK. he has the tags for Goat, bear, Dall etc, while i have small game privileges only. so we go on unsupported hunts (just got dropped onto Nelchina glacier), and the lighter the better. i really believe that all hunters and outdoors men can benefit from the UL philosophy. i guess every pound counts when you have to haul meat back to the camp or to the ATV or out of the backcountry. on hunts i love mountain house every nigh but getting ground squirrel or ptarmigan when possible is real nice
its really not for defense.. a 44 with bear loads or a shotgun w/slugs is more appropriate. ive carried(do carry) those as well
maybe a pak rifle or chipmunk conversion would be more useful, and thats a good way to open up the discussion. (i/o raving about CA gun laws, nat'l parks etc).
i realy just want to focus on guns/gearSep 21, 2011 at 4:11 am #1781518
@kat_pLocale: Pacific Coast
..those were your words, Jennifer, I just pointed out how that was incorrect. I am aware of the signs.
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