Tough but light backpack?

[Bob Gabbart]

I’m sorry to hear about the pack project coming to an end. It seemed to me that they did fill a niche. O well. Maybe you could put the prototypes on eBay!?

Bob

[dan mchale]

I’m not going to take full credit for the pack project coming to an end! :>) I would wish the pack business only on my greatest enemies.

PJ: I think Ryan has always made clear the importance of stays in packs. I think his honesty about it all is refreshing in internet world where virtually everythig is ‘comfortable’. I’m not here to pump my product either. There are many many packs on the market that are light, have light frame systems, and work far better than the frameless varieties, for those that can look at the whole problem scientifically, without just looking at the lowest common denomintor of weight.

When I first started making packs for Ryan about 4 or 5 years ago I specifically asked that he NOT review them. I do not like the pack review industry and I have made that clear for many years. Since I don’t feel like I can pick and choose the reviewer from an ethical standpoint, I pick none. I felt I could also not refuse to make Ryan packs. Ryan seems to like the packs enough that he has squeezed them in here and there and it is much appreciated.

Ironically, with the internet and chatrooms and forums, review sites are less neccessary than ever. I have always felt that the real value of sites like Backpacker ( mentioned because they are one of the oldest and most influential ) for instance, is the bringing of products and companies into the light, not so much what they have to say about them. What real customers and users have to say is what is paramount in the end. In the world of the net this is all that is needed. Unfortuanately, there is no way on the net to know WHO is talking. Listener beware.

I noticed there is a parallel thread about conflict going here. Power does not like democracy and there lies the tendency for review sites to want to overshout the masses. I think the net is capable of vigilance in the matter. All eyes are watching and hopefully more will participate.

[paul johnson]

Mr. McHale,

Good words. Hear you loud and clear. Many thanks for sharing your thoughts.

>>”I would wish the pack business only on my greatest enemies.”

Still chuckling as i write this.

[Bill Fornshell]

Ryan said: “But if you want an internal frame pack for carrying meaningful loads, you won’t find it coming from BMW.”

But could this statement imply that a pack that is not of the current “internal frame pack” style might be coming?

The plot thickens. SUL external frame’s are possible now in the 7oz to 9oz range. A little creative design work and you may see a hybrid frame and pack bag in the SUL weight range that will support a decent load and do it in a comfortable way.

[dan mchale]

That question you asked Ryan about what load weight he switches from ‘no frame’ to frame can be answered in general by saying it’s different for everyone. People have their own reasons for trying to chuck the frame.

Many years ago, after reading reading Collin Fletcher, I took the hold open bar out of my Camp Trails External because he had done that with his Trailwise or something. The result was, well, not as good as with it, It was easier to stuff more in with the bar, but the pack was much sexier, so I went without and lived with the compromise. At least the pack still had a frame!

[Ryan Faulkner]

Too bad about not bringing the rapture to market. It looked perfect for long distance hiking, and was perfect for a thru hike I plan to do in a few years. but I will go with a custom G6 with 2.2oz fabric, hipbelt, side pockets, and an external pad pocket.

[dan mchale]

I wanted to say something about Ryan's knowledge of packs so here goes. 4 or 5 years ago I saw a photo of Ryan wearing the framed spectra pack he used to make. In my work I have to really on photos from my customers to help determine how well their packs fit. I could tell from that photo that he knew something about packs and I was impressed. I'm always looking and analyzing photos I see, on magazine covers or wherever, and it's amazing how seldom I see packs that qualify as 'fitting'.

Todays market is getting so hi-tech though, that the investment and risk grows by the day! You almost have to be insane!

[paul johnson]

Mr. McHale,

>>”asked Ryan about what load weight he switches from ‘no frame’ to frame”

Actually, I sorta’ ans. my own ques. after I posted. I shouldn’t even have troubled the good Dr. with the ques.

Perhaps I won’t know the exact wt DrJ prefers to “switch”, but I can make an educated guess, having used the G6 quite a bit. For me it’s 15lb or a bit more if the first day’s food consumption will drop the weight to below 15lb by the end of the day. This weight also includes max. 2+ L water – which varies up and down throughout the trek. Use the G6 mostly in warmer weather when my sleeping bag doesn’t take up as much volume in the pack; so, G5 in colder weather. Also, if I’m really intent on using the G6 for slightly longer treks, then I cheat and use a 450cu in fanny pack (worn in front) to off-load some weight/gear and also keep things very handy when on the move – even stow some water in a Platy in the “abdomen” pack.

In my movement “towards the light” (as GVP says), I went from a 3.5lb Kelty int. frame pack, to a 20oz GoLite Gust and then a 14oz GoLite Breeze plus I added a 2oz padded hip-belt from an LLBean day pack, then the G5 a year later.

A few months ago, I was given a Mariposa as a gift (thanks again GR). I’ve only loaded it up gear with extra water (25lb total) just to test it on a couple of extended day-hikes. Really liked it; carries well.

Haven’t really tried a ~32oz int. frame pack with a well padded suspension. Now, you’ve got me thinking again. How would a ULA Conduit or Circuit, or one of your packs carry? [McHale packs: quite a wait, but well worth it – if i understand correctly?]. Right now, I’m not sure it’s required with my shorter duration treks. However, in a few years, I’ll retire and want to do some section hikes and eventually thru-hike the AT (if my knees hold out).

Well, time to go and think on this…

[dan mchale]

Well, you should not have troubled any of us either! :>) And then you go and mention the WAIT to get one of my packs! No pack for you! I’ve been told Limmer Boots has a 2 year wait and it just gets more people in line! You fume, I fume, the world fumes! No Pack for you buster. Go find another line!

(edited and added exclamation point and happy face due to possible misunderstanding. I guess I’m a troll at heart!)

[Anonymous]

I hope McHale was joking— or is he in vindictive Jardine mode? PJ was politely stating the obvious and asking reasonable questions.

[dan mchale]

It’s all a joke – just pulling your pack straps! :>)

Comparing ME to Jardine though is far worse than bringing up the WAIT.

No pack for you either!

[Anonymous]

Too late–I’ve got mine, already.

[dan mchale]

Damn!

[Michael Freyman]

No soup for you!

We need emoticons; helps to convey expression. Dr. J; can we have an upgrade?

[Anonymous]

e m o t i c o n s
are for WIMPS

[Michael Freyman]

for rude … :)

[dan mchale]

Paul Grube: I’m not so sure there is any such thing as a light and tough pack – at least for sandstone canyon and general rock use. As someone that has gone through many hundreds of yards of full spectra in making 100% Spectra packs I can tell you that even these packs dissappoint people when it comes to sandstone. You cannot abuse even full spectra when it only weighs 4 oz/yd. If the full spectra was a 6,7, or 8 oz weight before coating it might have a chance but then even Spectra is not ‘light’. Usually a pack that is light enough and tough enough is too expensive to be considered expendable in the conditions you describe. It is better to take expendable packs into these conditions.

Frankly, I got tired way back in the 90s of people wanting their full spectra bottoms replaced after glissading down granite slabs and off decomposing granite boulders. The best solution I think is to use or make inexpensive rain cover type covers that are disposable and protect the packs. This is what people have done for decades.

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