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  • #1370935
    paul johnson
    Member

    @pj

    Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest

    Having stretched extensively since i was a kid as part of Martial Arts training (full straddle splits and all), and then when i was older studying up on the physiological aspects of muscle stretching (particularly the work of a Polish Olympic Judoka with an advanced Biology degree, IIRC, who utilized extensive Eastern European research for their Olympic teams), Eins is right, i.e. improper stretching will cause injuries.

    However, i disagree that stretching won't help to eliminate injuries. Proper stretching (more on this word "stretching" later), IME, will reduce injuries, particularly the so-called "hamstring" strain and back spasms so many professional atheletes experience, particularly the very muscular [American] football and baseball players.

    Just think of all of the ballistic leg movements performed in some styles of MA with virtually no muscle strains (i.e. "pulls"; their proprioceptors are "trained" to not react to the sudden stretch during the ballistic leg movement b/c of their emphasis on stretching) from intermediate to advanced practitioners. Hmm…makes one think…

    In fact, i personally trained Glenn "Chico" Resch, NHL goalie, in martial arts and proper stretching back in the '70s. Glenn, as we called him then in the Do Jang, who was minor league hockey at the time and just couldn't break into the NHL, in later interviews attributed his NHL success to his stretching training. He was so "tight" when he started training. In hockey, he couldn't get down to the ice to stop some low shots. Proper "stretching" allowed him to accomplish this "goal" of his to stop goals. He also attributed his near elimination of muscle pulls, which he used to experience quite regularly, to his stretching.

    Bottom line: Muscle stretching should not be attempted w/o a proper warm up.

    Even performed properly, blood flow to muscles is reduced if muscles are stretched.

    Hence, a gentle warm up of range of motion exercise and calisthenics or walking to get the heart rate up and literally warm the muscles (warm water, or sitting on a heated surface LITERALLY can also accomplish the same purpose since blood flow to the muscles is increased in this way also – as a means of dissipating too much heat). I would do my "heavy", so to speak, stretching after the aerobic workout portion of my exercise regimen. In virtually every MA school, intense stretching is performed as part of the "warm up" – this is wrong or at the very least NOT optimal. Gentle/minimal stretching after range of motion, and calisthentics – 'ok'; intense stretching – NO!

    My personal rule of thumb was NOT to do intense stretching until my heart rate was up and i was just breaking a sweat. This is the earliest that i would perform intense stretching. In my case, i had to be very careful due to ruptured back muscles (lots of non-elastic scare tissue as a result) in the thoracic region suffered from improper HIT while Power Lifting (these were the early days of HIT, i.e. "high intensity training", before its proper more limited periodic use was understood so as to prevent injuries from constant HIT). They would spasm easily if intense stretching was performed without a warm up.

    Proprioceptors, which are tiny organelles in muscles and certain other tissues which respond to stretching, are responsible for initiating reflex nervous impulses resulting in reflex (i.e. sensory nervous impulses travel just to the spinal cord and don't need to reach the brain to produce a reflex motor nervous impulse response) muscle constraction when muscles are stretched can be a bit overreactive when 'cold'; this reflex contraction in response to a stretch can be forceful and result in some degree of muscle tissue damage).

    [Note: for any who are interested, Google the three letters PNF (which stand for "proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation"). This is a common PT (physical therapy) rehab technique to recover range of motion through PNF "stretching" of muscles. It's application to non-rehab stretching for athletics is quite instructive and produces excellent results, IME. You might also search the Forums for PNF as i believe an old post of mine describes how to perform PNF stretching for one commonly used stretching movement.]

    Be warned, improper stretching technique WILL likely cause muscle "strains" (particularly "ballistic" stretching vs. controlled stretching technique). Proper stretching techniques, IME and IMHO, will greatly reduce and possibly eliminate such injuries. Most people are correct to believe that slow stretching is proper. However, even there, most people stretch too fast and don't hold it long enough to train the muscles to properly relax while the muscles are experiencing a stretch condition. Thus, they don't achieve the optimal results possible from their stretching routine.

    I won't go into proper stretching (i.e., in truth, should be called "muscle relaxing") techniques here unless there is interest.

    #1370947
    Richard Matthews
    Member

    @food

    Locale: Colorado Rockies

    Hiking boots are the SUVs of footwear. There is a reason for both hiking boots and SUVs. But 99%+ of all SUV miles could be driven in a normal sedan. I suspect about the same % with boots.

    #1370948
    paul johnson
    Member

    @pj

    Locale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest

    Well put, Richard.

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