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POE’s warranty is a P.O.S.


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Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) POE’s warranty is a P.O.S.

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  • #1757540
    kevperro .
    BPL Member

    @kevperro

    Locale: Washington State

    Greg,

    Great response but you need to cut out 98% of it because people don't read diatribes on the Internet.

    Just post…. our pads Rock! We take care of people! Send back the pad and I'll get you a new one right away!

    Do that quick enough and you don't ever have to write a dissertation on Chinese manufacturing.

    BTW: I plan on buying one of your new Peak Elite pads once supply stabilizes. I want one of the purple womens versions and it seems to never be in stock on Amazon.

    #1757811
    k sebler
    BPL Member

    @kurtibm

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    I believe that had Greg, upon reading one of my two emails, taken 3 seconds to reply "I am busy doing xxxx and will resond to your email soon", he may have had some hope at retaining a customer. But he did not; instead I (and you) am offered more excuses here. There is no time to email me a one-sentence note directly but plenty of time to write the next 'War and Peace" and post it here?
    Asking that I email him directly (which I do) but he responds HERE instead of replying to me directly. Many so-called 'offers' to make it right but no *action* to make it right.
    Thankfully my new NeoAir All-Season should be here soon, as if I waited for POE to make good on their "lifetime" warranty I'd NEVER get back out in the woods.
    Caveat Emptor, people. Shop elsewhere!

    #1757828
    Mark Ries
    Spectator

    @mtmnmark

    Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    I think POE needs to offer Kevin H a job

    #1757835
    Chris Morgan
    BPL Member

    @chrismorgan

    Locale: Southern Oregon

    I can understand why a company president has an interest in defending the reputation of his company, but I find the above post wholly inappropriate. If you have a beef with your customer, smile and say thank you. Especially in a public setting. End of story.

    Sparring over a $60 pad does more damage to your company's reputation than any disgruntled customer's opinion or one-time product defect.

    #1757837
    Chad “Stick” Poindexter
    BPL Member

    @stick

    Locale: Southeast USA

    Great choice on the new pad!

    #1757907
    Lawson Kline
    BPL Member

    @mountainfitter

    Hi Greg,

    I would say your biggest competitor is Cascade Designs. With over 90% of their products built in the USA there is no excuse for outsourcing.

    Regards,
    Lawson

    #1758061
    kevperro .
    BPL Member

    @kevperro

    Locale: Washington State

    Ha!

    I'm looking but not in the outdoor consumer goods industry. ;-)

    I've handled my own customer issues on the web and for what it is worth… it is wise to say little and be proactive about taking care of situations. It is like being a politician. You have to choose your words wisely and avoid issues where you know you just cannot win in a public space. You duck the question/issue and aim to show superior customer support even when the customer may be a jerk or wrong.

    And it is a $60 pad. A problem handled right is an opportunity and you can turn a negative into a positive pretty easily. You just have to change the way you look at the situation and avoid being defensive. If you have done something wrong, apologize, own it and take care of the customer. People recognize that we are all human and will forgive an error if you accept responsibility for it and make things right, even when the customer isn't necessarily in the right.

    Just my $0.02

    #1758072
    k sebler
    BPL Member

    @kurtibm

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    With my first contact to Greg of Pacific Outdoor, I included a link to the Golite 'warranty' thread. One might have thought that upon reading the fallout (and the response by Golite's upper management) that he might take a different approach. Seems like these companies spend a bunch to GET business, but disregard a customer once they HAVE one – I sure don't get it.
    Hell…. with a president's salary, I'd guess that his time writing that diatribe, cost POE more than the pad EVER would have, not to mention the harm (reputation & lost-sales) it has caused them.

    #1758081
    Matthew Perry
    BPL Member

    @bigfoot2

    Locale: Hammock-NOT Tarptent!

    Just my two cents:

    I had a horrible experience with POE last year. I had bought two of their dog bed that used recycled foam for padding and my dogs loved them. They soon developed tears along the mesh side seams where the mesh was sewn to the actual bed part. I keep my dogs nails closely clipped and filed. The mesh on the sides of the dog beds just completely wore out where it was sewn to the dog bed in less than six months of moderate use. I called POE's warranty dept. and told them my concerns about the defective stitching on the mesh sides of the dog bed where it connects to the main bed (seams). The person i spoke to said it was a very common problem on this model, but they could not help me because the dog beds were no longer being made (they were discontinued), and no replacement was available. I asked if they could repair it and was told flat out that since it was an item they no longer made, it was no longer under warranty…even though POE states that the product had a LIFETIME Warranty???? I even said i would pay shipping BOTH ways if they were willing to repair the items, but no can do! They advised me to hire a local seamstress. I was treated so badly and was totally dissatisfied with the awful customer service that POE provided that i will never again buy one of their products…PERIOD! I take the opportunity to tell EVERYONE i seen in stores and on the trail about POE and what they did (or failed to do) and i am sure the bad word of mouth has cost them several sales. After all, i tell two people, they tell two more people, so on so forth. From now on, i will buy from cottage guys like Lawson or go with a company like Cascade designs that actually stands behind their products and warranty. POE warranty REALLY IS a POS!!

    —M

    #1758105
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    Yeah, I had an issue with a Golite product that I had purchased from them directly and that had failed miserable within a few weeks. Now this item was one that they had on a clearance sale, and I am sure you all can remember the fiasco that was. I sent the customer service lady there some pictures of what had failed and had a new item shipped out right away. Golite may have had and still does have some problem but there is no reason why wouldn't suggest one of their products to someone. Same with Marmot who has phenomenal customer and warranty service. Or Thermarest or any of cottage manufacturers for pads. I know I won't buy a POE pad but maybe that is why none of the local stores carry them anymore.

    #1758110
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    And I am sorry, but is someone is returning a warranty pad and it meets the obligations, my first reaction as the person in charge of the company is 'Here is a brand new or almost new exact model(slight cosmetic defect) of the pad you shipped to us'. If it was not available I would call every dealer on the list in an ever widening circle to the customer to have them ship a brand new one to them if they had it in stock. If that was not an option I would give the customer the full credit of the item to purchase another pad from us if they wanted. And if that wasn't an option I would say 'We no longer carry that item but we are producing one to replace. It is not due out for two more months but here are the specs and if you want to I will personally send you one as soon at it hits the docks here in the states free of charge. If you don't like it at that point I am open to suggestions to do whatever is need to make you a happy lifelong customer of our products.' This is an item that costs $60 for what, $8 in material, $4 for labor and maybe $5 in shipping if they screwed it up the first two times? It ain't a Lexus. Is it really that hard?

    #1758112
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    'Fromt he industry side, I would propose you invite Matt Hyde of REI, Pete Girard of Timberland, Gordon Fraser of Anatom and Steven Barnes of The North Face (formerly Osprey) and if you want to hear my opinions I would be honored to participate as well.'

    Yeah, I think the guy from REI is the only one who has a policy in place for the gear that they sell with their name on it worth a spit. I know that the TNF is not worth it if it has been 6 months because they have moved on to other products or lines and I can't see Timberland being much better after some of the comments I have heard from customers.

    #1758114
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    I am no lawyer, but a couple of things keep getting overlooked or un-answered here.

    Who is Sally? Apparently she called P. O. E., but is she the purchaser?

    Did anybody furnish the scan of the sales receipt?

    Personally, I would avoid doing business with a company whose top executive can't even spell.

    –B.G.–

    #1758121
    k sebler
    BPL Member

    @kurtibm

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    re. the receipt.. that was never asked for, it's merely more smoke-and-mirrors from POE. Neither on their mattress packaging nor on their site does it state that a receipt is required – hell…. the pad has their NAME on it; who else's pad could it be?
    Sally is my girlfriend. I bought her the pad brand new. After dealing with 'Ryan' in the customer 'service'(?) department by phone, she felt 'dismissed' by him.
    At that point I became involved. I wanted to know if his dismissive attitude was his alone or company-wide, so I sleuthed Greg's email address using Google – as they list no employee or higher-up email addresses on their website – so as to a) let him know of my dissatisfaction and b) to find out if Ryan spoke for the company with regards to his 'take-it-or-leave-it' attitude.

    Well… I guess that I have my answer regarding whether it was an isolated lack of customer service or whether it is company policy to give P.O.S. service to its customers; huh?

    #1758134
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    Asking for a copy or scan of a sales receipt is a fairly legitimate request on a warranty claim. For one thing, they need to establish that the product was not stolen. Secondly, the receipt would show the retailer and date, which can be extremely important. Sometimes a manufacturer finds out this way that its products have entered into "gray market" sales distribution. Sometimes, if you don't have a receipt, they will accept other proof such as a credit card statement that shows it.

    Incidentally, this is one small good reason to deal with REI. I think they have all of my purchases in their database for me that goes back to the Truman Administration.

    Next time that anybody is confronted by a CS rep demanding this kind of information, simply ask if that is a necessary condition for the product warranty claim. In some cases, they will say so. It is always best if the original purchaser makes the warranty claim, not the first user. I know it sounds like lawyer-speak, but it is a cruel world out there.

    I also agree that a company needs to have a fairly diplomatic person in the CS role, and the whole deal should have never gotten up to the executive. However, if you were a part-time CS rep making less than minimum wage, maybe you would have an attitude also.

    Just think. If this thread goes on more and more, just think what that will do for P. O. E.!

    –B.G.–

    #1760732
    Pilate de Guerre
    Member

    @deguerre

    Locale: SE, USA

    This thread has been most instructive, most of that instruction coming from the president of the POE. One more brand I know not to buy from. Kurt, thanks for bring this to our attention.

    #1760747
    k sebler
    BPL Member

    @kurtibm

    Locale: Grand Canyon State

    You are most welcome; being able to alert each other of things (good AND bad) is what the BPL community is all about.

    (BTW – they are still jerking Sally & I around – they have obviously made the decision to exchange any goodwill they may have had in the BPL community for a couple of bucks.)

    #1760763
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    "BTW – they are still jerking Sally & I around"

    Maybe it is time to just walk away and cut your loses.

    Time is money and it seems you are investing a lot of time. This could have been resolved a long time ago. Great companies just ask what the customer what they want, and if it is of nominal cost, they give it to the customer. That is how you build customer loyalty.

    It does not sound like you will ever be an advocate of this company. Time to move on.

    #1760808
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    I have to admit I was at least somewhat tempted by the new POE to replace my Neo, I am now NOT tempted and if I go to a warmer inflatable it will be the all season

    I've had several small dealings w/ Cascade Designs customer service (nothing w/ the Neo however) and I was very impressed with each one

    #1760813
    Brian Hall
    BPL Member

    @brian2o0o

    I bought a neoair on gear swap that was probably a couple of years old and found that it had the slow leak that alot of people complained about with the earlier neo's. I e-mailed cascade designs and they told me to send it back. I had a brand new one at my doorstep about 2 weeks later. They seem to have great customer service.

    #1760867
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    As Bill Engvall says, "There's your sign."

    #1760876
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Same experience here. When I called Thermarest, they explained that if the slow leak was caused by material / workmanship flaw, then they will replace. But if the leak was caused by user puncture, wear and tear, etc., then they will repair for a fee ( I recall $20).

    Given the newness of my Neoair, I expected — and received — a new replacement.

    #1760889
    Edward Z
    BPL Member

    @fuzz

    Locale: Sunny San Diego

    I was just looking at outfitting the other family folks with pads from the closed cell they have now. This post was most timely. Saved me the hassle of spending money on 7 pads with a questionable company. The customers happiness and an ounce of preventative kindness cost more than a couple new pads would have for the OP. A simple sorry and we'll make it right would have saved them all this. Snarky retorts are tacky and unnecessary. This instance is one example of what makes BPL so valuable.

    #1760974
    billy goat
    BPL Member

    @billygoat

    Locale: West.

    This Greg guy doesn't help the situation posting his long explanations one bit. At a certain point he probably had to get involved (it appears he felt Kurt was not posting the "whole picture" on this thread). But when he got involved he should have simply posted a simple "We are replacing your pad with any product of your choice of equal or lesser value." Then everyone could see very clearly how the company operates.

    I think POE just lost a lot of business based on this thread. Ironically, very little of it had to do with the original post (I mean who knows the truth – this Kurt guy could be B.S. ing the whole thing). As previously stated, it's the whole "sparring match" and long-winded explanations the president of the company himself felt a need to get into with one customer. Frankly, even if Greg got on here and said simply "we are not replacing this pad because it is not a manufacturing defect" they could retain some semblance of dignity.

    Classic case of a guy who may or may not be a great company president, but really needs to take a course in PR or hire a PR person. And for heaven's sake, Greg, if you're not going to learn some basic PR skills keep your email address out of the hands of consumers and just keep your mouth shut altogether.

    #1760993
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    Customer satisfaction, customer recovery, and customer retention are my areas of expertise.

    The golden rule to me is, "You cannot win an argument with a customer." If you want to argue, then prepared for any negative consequences. Yes, you cannot please all the people all the time, but if you please them most of the time, you earn a good reputation. I am sure the companies we on BPL feel provide excellent service occasionally cannot make someone happy… but that is the exception, not the norm.

    Companies spend tons on advertising, and then blow it over little things like this.

    Lastly, most customers could care less if you were short handed for a sale, inventory, or just about anything else. If a company has a problem, other than a major tsunami, earthquake, or flood, customers don't give a hoot. They just want to be treated well. That is reality. If a company doesn't want to play that way, they won't be in business over the long haul.

    This company is getting a lot of bad press over something that could be fixed for less than $100… or it could have been fixed at one point. Now it is too late. The damage has been done… even if they were "right" and the customer was wrong…

    They argued with the customer.

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