QR Codes + Trail Signs

[Art Sandt]

Regarding technology, I think you can have philosophical reservations about even bringing a phone on a backpacking trip, and that's fine, but there are also legitimate pragmatic concerns a person can have about using a smartphone on the trail for GPS, apps, or anything that uses the battery. As we all know, the battery life on these things is, as a rule, abysmal, they are easily damaged in water and heat, and when either of those events do occur, you've lost your most effective (if you have signal) emergency bail-out device. If and when smartphones improve their reliability in these ways, an idea like putting QR codes on trail signs could have a lot of potential to really take off.

[Jared Downs]

Tyson – Thanks!!! One of my main design goals has been to keep the feel of the signs as similar to the way they have been, but while changing them in a positive way that does not take away from the over experience.

Wood – I agree 100% on the correct choice of wood (if that is the final direction for the QR code) is crucial. I do have a professor here that has a strong wood backround and I will be meeting with him soon to discus practical options, but I am always more than excited to talk with as many people as possible. I think everyone brings something different to the table which is great! I'll def look more into the finishes you are talking about. Someone had mentioned Shellac as a potential finish.

Tohru – I do have concerns with how well wood will stand up, but through more testing I will find out how much wear and tear the codes can take. I'll keep you posted on that! To keep a contrast ratio of 4:1 I might want to play with adding a paint to the QR code? OR a solution that maintains an appropriate contrast ratio. Thanks for the links!

Art – I agree that this won't be for everyone; I personally don't like hiking with shoes/boots (to each his/her own right?) And yes one of my major concerns was battery life. Earlier in the project I looked at whether I should design a portable recharging unit of some sort to include in the using of the smartphone while on trail. But after some thought I felt I would be spread pretty thin if I included that in this project. (Currently I feel spread thin with the development of the signs, App, and website, as well as doing all the branding and graphical content…..in 4 months) but hey! I'm up for the challenge!!

This idea needs to start somewhere, hopefully with if I'm able to get this to start small there will be some huge learnings to help improve it even more!!

[Aaron Benson]

I really like Art's mock-up – small, noticeable, efficient. My own emphasis is "small" is good. Prototype #3 above is getting there, but IMO, it's still too big. In my time with nature, I'd rather see a little metal sign in the corner than a big QR code in wood.

As suggested, it could be beneficial in all sorts of ways to make the QR code a component that is attached to the Trail sign. The QR code piece, then, could probably be more easily made with the needed detail/contrast, be made small, and be easily replaced, if needs be.

I can picture a little 2"x2" QR code sign in the corner of a Trail Sign.

[W I S N E R !]

DaMn, if we could just convince AT&T to build some cell towers up in the High Sierra…

[John Whynot]

I hate to be the contrarian, but what problem is solved by standardized trail signs with QR codes?

After 35 years of hiking in the White Mountains, I enjoy the variety of trail signs. There's something special about the weathered white and green painted signs, the heavy routed signs, and the colorful painted signs near the AMC huts.

I just don't see a laser cut, optically coded sign as enhancing my experience. I'll stick with a map, compass, and awareness of the terrain around me…

[Ken Thompson]

Hopefully all the need to know information will still be printed on the sign for everyone to read.

[Kier Selinsky]

I think this is a fantastic idea and I think you could really turn this into something cool. I do have a concern about using wood though. I work in the mobile marketing industry and crank out QR code campaigns for clients (I'm an Information Architect/Ux designer). My concern is in the degredation of the code over time. What you have to consider is the performance of different readers and even the differences that the camera and lighting has on how readable each code is. You combine those variables, with a couple years of weathering, and I think you're going to have a hard time reading the codes.

This is a case where I'd spend a lot more time in making the app great, and keep the QR code placements just heavy duty vinyl stickers. They'll be easy to replace, and will handle the weathering better (and you'll be able to legibly add some copy explaining what the heck they are). This would not only give you a better chance at long term success, but it would be much much cheaper to roll out.

Also, I think it's a good idea to point it to an app. Whoever develops this should make it so that the reader is within the app, and the QR codes just contain an ID number. that will keep the amount of data within the codes simple, and therefore the code will have the full 30% error correction.

Best of luck with this! I think it's got a lot of potential. As I've said my only concern would be the long term readability of the codes.

[Tim Zen]

How about you build a digital cairn out of rocks.

Instead of a pile of rocks, you could lay them out in a grid on the ground.

Less signs are better.

[Jared Downs]

Aaron – Great feedback, I appreciate it very much. I'll spend sometime exploring sizing of the QR code, and hopefully narrow to a certain size during the refinement of the project. (Still have about 6 weeks left to go, so things will change…hopefully for the better!) I think placement of the code will be crucial as I don't want it to distract the non-users.

Craig – If service was everywhere that'd be awesome, but I am aiming for the App to contain certain bits of information as well as track the times when you scan the code. Once you have service the App will talk to the website transferring certain bits of information.

John – I do not think there is a problem with having a variety of signs in the mountains, the thought of standardizing them was actually something a member of the AMC trail crew had mentioned to me. The USFS is looking to standardize them; which provides me with a great opportunity to implement the QR code. I'm still working on the true benefits of the App but its not going to be an App that navigates for you. The App is going to enhance the piece of mind that a loved one may have or the ability for Search and Rescue to have certain key bits of information that is needed in the event that you become lost; ultimately speeding up the process.

Ken – Having talked with thru hikers that have done the AT, some had mentioned needing to do research on certain areas before starting the hike. After doing the research some mentioned writing down notes about areas for later use. I see this as a way to not need to write down the info but rather keep the notes on a smart phones for those that have it. Ultimately making information more accessible while on trail, above and beyond what is already available on trail. I don't plan on taking information off signs that is currently on them. Hope this helps!

Kieran – Some of my testing involved exploring plastics for the QR codes and doing a wipe with a paint to provide the contrast for the code. Possibly making this a piece that is removable with hardware. With in the App I'm looking at 4 features the first being a QR code reader within the App so the user does not need to go App to App to use this. Thanks for your insights and support! Hopefully this turns into the real deal. Please check back in as I think you being a UX designer would provide me with great feedback, if your up for it that be appreciated.

Timothy – I do not see this increasing the number of signs, more as something that is added to new signs as current signs are replaced. I do not think the solution is more signs, just updating them in a way that provides hikers with additional information while still staying true to the look and feel that hikers have known for decades. Hope this clarifies things a little.

Thanks all!

[Anonymous]

"DaMn, if we could just convince AT&T to build some cell towers up in the High Sierra…"

From what I'm reading here, that can't be far in the future. It's a Brave New World, Craig, and us dinosaurs' days is numbered.

[Mat Tallman]

We're technologizing the backcountry, not a fan of the idea at all.
I'm a techno nerd (engineer) and appreciate the cool factor of the technology, but the backcountry is for escaping the phones and lights and people.

Also, this is America, are you prepared for the lawsuits that WILL come when someone's smartphone mis-scans a code and gives incorrect information sending a hiker in the wrong direction, into harm's way, etc. Seems we're developing a complex solution to a simple (non-existent?) problem, all the while making the wild places less wild.

Good effort, but no thanks.

[Art Sandt]

I think posts related to technologizing the backcountry are best kept in the Philosophy forum. The topic here is QR codes and Jared's project. Let's not let a good thread go bad.

[Dirk Rabdau]

I am trying to keep an open mind to this and can appreciate practical applications for using QR Codes – for example, the nature preserve with interpretive stops being one applicable example. But I must ask, what problem would this technology be used to solve? Ok, I can see a few practical examples, including the ability to embed Longitudinal/Latitude/UMT Coordinates into the code, with elevation profile data, and other pertinent information.

It is worth noting that the trend, at least in the west, is to remove/minimize signs in designated wildernesses in accordance with the Wilderness Act. The exception seems to be National Parks, where there is an abundance of signage. But elsewhere, there aren't many, particularly in the back country – the assumption being that you had better carry a map and be prepared.

[Tim Zen]

When I am carrying a device with GPS, compass, 4G, and 32 GB of memory which can hold 6000 USGS topo map. I am not sure I see the point of signs with QR codes.

[Dirk Rabdau]

Timothy –

I was thinking the same thing. All of these whizbang things will be made somewhat obsolete by GPS-enabled devices that work anywhere and provide communication. And with that, the greater ethical debate begins – will there be any true wilderness when that happens? I mean, if you can walk out your door and reasonably expect to call search and rescue at any moment, is that necessarily better? My find flip-flops on this issue all the time.

But back to QR codes, if there were the ability to receive basic information (via data embedded int eh code) but optionally (where coverage exists) receive some sort of update as to trail conditions or hazards, such as fire, that might be useful. You could take it to the next logical step and presume that if you were to scan in a code and be able to receive information though a 4G/3G/Satellite/new-fangled-technoogy, then you would at the same time be able to transmit some information about yourself, based this two-way communication. Such as here is my last known location and please-update-me-with-the-latest-conditions.

Anyhow, it is interesting, even if the potential might be eclisped by other technologies such as GPS, Satellite, WiMax…..

Dirk

[Art Sandt]

>be able to transmit some information about yourself, based this two-way communication. Such as here is my last known location and please-update-me-with-the-latest-conditions.

Well it could make search and rescue operations faster. For those who wanted to use it anyway.

[Anonymous]

"Are we trying to tame the wilderness with technology?"

I think Jared refers to it as the outdoor industry. Slightly different perspective?

"Can't we rely on our own navigation skills?"

The yawning chasm of the generation gap.

"What will a walker do when he goes off-trail and finds he has no nanny holding his hand (or phone)?"

Substrate for the Search and Rescue industry and potential candidate for the Darwin Award. Multiple use hiker.

Cheers

[Dirk Rabdau]

For me, it comes down to the argument what is the weakest link? Well, besides myself (a weak link, to be sure), I'd have to argue that electronics and mechanical items are the most likely to experience a failure. My topo map doesn't seem to suffer from these design defects, rather, as a printed page, with reasonable care it holds up fairly well.

Dirk

[Jared Downs]

Users – Mat, Thanks for bring that to light. During the concept phase of that I wasn't looking at the lawsuit aspect of things, but as this progresses and hopefully becomes real that is something that will be top priority.

Philosophy – I have had many discussions with fellow hikers, professors, and friends about this. I think the main focus of this whole project (which I will highlight in greater depth) is about where the hiker has been and not so much about navigation. We are a culture that relies so heavily on recording our past; which brought me to think about hiking and how we log where we've been. There will be little bits about water location, wild life, shelters, but in a way that makes it so the hiker does need to know before hand; planning is crucial to the success of a hike. One thing that is incredibly important for hikers is the ability to adapt to situations, and what better way to adapt that to know where things are. But again, this debate could go on forever.

Content Overview – Sorry for the delay on this one. I've been working on designing the pages of the App in photoshop so once I have it in a good place I'll post it. This way we can have a discussion about what is desired vs. what isn't since it will look the way as App actually looks instead of a few scribbles. But it will only be a first pass, so nothing finalized.

Maps vs. Electronics – I agree that maps work great as I love my maps. But I think the one thing my map fails at doing is providing me with up to date information. I think each person will elect to go with what ever level of technology suites them best. We could have a discussion about Water purifiers vs filters vs tablets. All are focused on cleaning water, but ultimately the user decides which piece of equipment to go with.

Thanks! Check back in soon!

[David Drake]

Hi Jared,
First, I commend you for putting your ideas in front of an audience as well-informed (and with as many strong opinions) as this one. If I may make a suggestion, as you move forward I think you should be very clear not only who the intended users will be, but where appropriate locations for these markers will be. I can think of places where I *would not* want your signs–if I was on your review panel, I'd be asking questions about this. Would your signage really be a good fit for the big wilderness areas in the American West, for example?

You might want to read this article by Ryan Jordan (I think it can be accessed by non-members): http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/mapless.html

It can be argued that humans have always tried to "tame the wilderness with technology," but as I'm sure you know, for at least the past 100 years, people have also tried to preserve some wild places *as* wild places. Your project *is* taking a position with regard to technology and wilderness, and seeing QR codes (or any signs) affects people whether they want it to or not–in my view, you'll need to address that.

Personally, as more and more people move to cities and abandon rural and semi-wild areas, I'm in favor of those places become more wild (ie, less safe). For example, I'd like to see grizzlies re-introduced to much of their historical territory, even if that makes it more hazardous for me to hike there.

I don't mind fencing off wilderness if that's what it takes to keep ATVs and snowmobiles out; but within wilderness I don't want any fences, guardrail, handrails, cell towers, etc. I'm in favor of a lot of road removal, and some trail removal as well. When I see a trail sign that's fallen down and illegible, I really don't consider that a problem.

I understand the argument that hikers endanger SAR personnel if they need rescue (and actually, I'm pretty risk-averse in my own hiking choices), but SAR do choose to take on that responsibility. It strikes me that the people one usually hears about getting in trouble are unprepared overnighters or dayhikers, who think they are on safe, well-marked trails–not sure your markers would change that.

I get that the primary purpose of your idea isn't safety, but opening new possibilities for trip documentation. But because your markers would be a physical presence on the landscape, there's plenty of places where they would detract from the experience I want in the backcountry, whether I choose to use them or not. By contrast, if I don't carry a GPS unit, I can ignore GPS signals as if they didn't exist.

[Jared Downs]

David – I greatly appreciate your comments and thoughts, thank you. You covered a lot of great things and I guess I could start by narrowing the potential area of use. I had done so with school presentations but not yet here in this thread.

Thanks for the link to the article, I will read that and hopefully that will provide many insights.

**How would you feel about this being implemented along the AT? Rather than in a large national park such as Denali?

Locations -Originally I was exploring areas that see heavy use.

Examples….
White Mountains
Great Smoky Mountains
AT
Pacific Crest Trail
….just to name a few quick ones.

I do agree that there needs to be wilderness that needs to be left the way it is with out shelters, bridges and so on.

I don't intent for this to be something that increases the number of signs along trails. I view existing trail signs as an opportunity to add something like this to.

A lot of great stuff! I appreciate you taking time to post in the thread, thanks.

[W I S N E R !]

It looks like virtual Smokey the Bear tours are just around the corner. Just like at the museum; point your device at the code, scan it, plug your headphones…

__________________________________________________________________

"Well howdy hiker! Smokey the Bear here. Welcome to YOUR National Park! You're looking at a Ponderosa Pine (Pinus Ponderosa), one of the tallest species of pine, known for it's orange colored bark…

And remember…Stamp fires out DEAD. Watch your step and come again soon!

…This message has been brought to you by Tide Green. The same great cleaning power you've come to expect but now without phosphates."

__________________________________________________________________

I think Edward Abbey would be having a field day with this.

[Anonymous]

"I think Edward Abbey would be having a field day with this."

So would The Monkey Wrench Gang. ;)

[John Whynot]

I guess I still don't see the need for this, especially in a heavily used area like the White Mountains.

It's so easy to find up to date information on weather, trail conditions, and water sources. Every AMC and RMC facility (back-county and front-country) posts the daily 0700 MWO weather forecast. Ask the caretaker or crew about trail conditions or water. Ask the other hikers you pass on the trail. Read a guidebook or natural history guide for the area.

Heck, if you want to carry a smartphone, cell service is widely available in the Whites if you want information off the Internet. Carry a PLB if you want to SAR easier.

[Erik Basil]

The application of this technology which excites me the most is in regard to local parks, preserve trails and locations where "the normal public" or teachers with classes of any age student are likely to hike and, statistically, to have a device that reads QR codes. To be able to link them to an interpretive slide show, or to a short audio file about the particular habitat feature, or even to a "you are here" map could be a great thing.

This has nothing to do with the erection of cell towers in the Sierra, the sudden presence of people in the outback able to navigate easily without buying $600 worth of Garmin and the latest Marmot ultralight shell or the deprivation of anyone seeking to hike or visit anywhere. It has to do with the simple, low-impact, fat-free, free-range provision of information to folks that ARE INTERESTED.

Check it out: if folks in the outback don't take their smart phones with them or we don't have cell coverage, there won't be much reason to put a QR code on a trail sign, will there? I don't bring mine, because I prefer to navigate with a 14th century sextant and a compass I made from metal I found in White Sands NM. So, when there aren't any QR codes in a place where I can't use them anyway, will it matter? Is this really evidence that Skynet goes live?

Relax, Don't Worry, Have a homebrew…

In the meantime, I can say this: I think the idea is a winner and that it's ready to use with HTML links. To have an explanation and photo of the Least Bell's Vireo that may live in a meadow the hiker is overlooking, or a page describing the importance of the local watershed feeding the creek in a preserve, or a link to the USFS Avalanche Conditions webpage… all seems very obviously desirable (albeit not mandatory) to me.

Keep up what you're doing!

[Author]

Posts