Going Wool? share your knowledge

[Miguel Arboleda]

I’m wondering if alpaca wool might serve the same function as merino… it’s lighter, warmer, and hypoallergenic… and easy on the skin. “Alpaca” on Wikipedia”

[Brett .]

Bill,
I emailed Patagoinia about the hoodie; I hope they use your design..
Eric,
I didn’t know about that Ibex, thanks; it seems the Napoleon pocket opening is placed right under where a pack strap would go? And its a little costly and warm. I’m hoping for a 1 or 2 (to use Patagonia’s terminology) hooded shirt. But I’m looking forward to your review of the Ibex.

[Eric Noble]

Bill, thanks for starting the process. I will definitely lend my voice. Did you add thumb cuff holes to your design? I’ll ask for that, and that they make it in a dark and a light color. The light color is important for 3 season use.

[Eric Noble]

Brett, I’ve only worn this around town, not with a pack yet. I’ll try it out and let you know if the pocket is a problem. I totally agree, a 1 or 2 in a light color is ideal for 3 season use.

[Brett .]

Eric, I hadn’t thought of the importance of color. Luckily one of my wool-1s is light colored. I’ll include that criterion for future purchases as I do intend to try wool in shoulder seasons.

Hey, I just realized its summer in the Southern Hemisphere! anyone wearing wool in the Summer down there and finding it bearable?

[Frank Deland]

When I capsized a boat in the middle of Saco Bay, Maine, one September, I remeber being amazed at how warm the wool sweater kept me once I got out of the water.
Want to know if you are hydrophobic or hydrophilic, look up the definition of these and other “fabric terms” that are
defined in this glossary:
http://www.adventuresportsonline.com/fabricglos.htm
Note: I believe that merino wool fibers are hollow which improves their “weight-to-warmth” ratio.
Read about alpaca, lamas, and other woolies here:
http://rmla.com/fleece_basics.htm

[Michael Davis]

I’ve gone totally wool in any temps below 70 degrees. Synthetics have too much temperature swings to be confortable and they stink, literally.

I have even gone to multiple wool layers in cold weather and eliminated my Patagonia Micro puff jacket except for temps well below freezing. I wear a Smartwool mid-weight top & bottom plus a Ibex heavy weight 1/4 zip top. As temps vary, I can choose between the two weights or go with both.

Maybe I’ll go with a third wool top and ditch the bulky Micro-puff!

[David Olsen]

It’s is a snowy day today and I’ve got my
Malone pants on for the trudge to the bus
stop with my little boy.

[Joshua Mitchell]

[ignorethis]Their website still lists it as a current product. Now, it’s only available in Black or Blue, but it’s still current.[/ignorethis]

AH! Strike that… just noticed that it’s extremely limited sizes…

[Christopher Plesko]

Glad I picked up a women’s hoodie for $30 when I could :)

[Roger Caffin]

> Hey, I just realized its summer in the Southern Hemisphere! anyone wearing wool in the Summer down there and finding it bearable?
It was 40 C (104 F) today and humid, and then the thunderstorm came over and wet everything down for 10 minutes. Afterwards it was almost as hot but definitely even more humid.

Frankly, I don’t think experienced Australian walkers bother with wool at all. The wool thermals are regarded as being a bit of a fashon thing, and they rip very easily.
Smell? Look guys, at the end of a few days of summer walking, *I* am sweaty and smelly – my clothing is a distant second!

Cheers

[Eric Noble]

Heretic! :)

[Ryan Jordan]

I wear nothing but wool for my base layer top in the backcountry. If it’s winter and I need two thermal tops, the second one will be a synthetic, simply because it’s lighter (4 oz GoLite C-Thru Zip-T) when it’s in my pack.

For me, wool’s benefits relative to any synthetic are:

1. It feels nicer – cozy – against the skin.

2. It feels warmer against the skin when it’s wet.

3. It don’t stank << a very nice morale feature when on a long hike with no access to laundry facilities, bounce boxes, etc. en route. 4. It’s awesome for hot weather, as long as the fit is loose (like a T-shirt). Relative to a synthetic, which is … for lack of a better term … “yucky” to wear in hot weather, wool’s ability to store and release heat in response to the absorption/evaporation of moisture is one of its greatest benefits.

For me, the biggest disadvantages of using wool relative to a synthetic are (1) that it stretches and loses shape after many days on the trail (restored by washing and drying in a hot dryer), and (2) it doesn’t have the warmth:weight ratio (when dry) to oust a lightweight synthetic shirt when I want a second shirt in my pack. However, if I was expected truly wet conditions and I needed a second baselayer, the weight of wool may someday be worth carrying in my pack.

[Mark Verber]

I am clearly the minority on this topic. I have tried several merino wool shirts because there have been such positive comments on BPL about them. They just haven’t past muster with me. I have found that I prefer powerdry shirts in almost all cases over wool and other synthetics I have try (capiline, coolmax, and polypro). I use a Sekri level 1, long sleeve zip-tee in moderate temps, and a Patagonia R.5 in cold weather.

1. Comfort against skin: I have found the bipolar powerdry to be very nice against the skin. The fuzzy inside is pretty soft. It doesn’t seem quite as soft as merino wool, but it doesn’t itch. Yeah, I know. 18 micron fibers in merino wool shouldn’t itch.. but I find that my shoulders and back start itching within a minute of the shirt going on. I don’t understand it. I have found high quality wool to be comfortable in socks and gloves.

2. Low water absorption: I have found that powerdry absorbs a lot less water than wool does and drys significantly faster. Even if I have gotten soaked I can wring out my powerdry skirt, put it back on, get under my quilt, and have a dry shirt in a few hours.

3. Good wet performance: Powerdry has some of the “feels warm when wet” that wool does thanks to the directional wick nature of the bipolar materials. WWhen powerdry and wool have absorbed equal amounts of water, I imagine that the wool will be more comfortable… but that won’t happen in the field because powerdry will absorb less and dries significantly faster than wool.

4. Embedded Silver is pretty good at fighting odor. I don’t know that it is as good as wool, but I have come home after a week wearing (and sleeping) in the same shirt and not been sent away because I stink. The same conditions in a supplex or coolmax shirt would have resulted in me being sent to the showers.

5. Good Warmth / weight: In all seasons except summer this is a good thing.

Some people have discussed that syntheics drying more quickly will which in term chill your more. I have experienced this when I have been working really hard and then stop (e.g. flashoff)… but that’s when my windshirt comes out. In colder weather I have found conduction cooling (wet fabric against my skin) to have a larger effect than evaporation cooling.

–Mark

[Michael Martin]

>> Yeah, I know. 18 micron fibers in merino wool shouldn’t itch.. but I find that my shoulders and back start itching within a minute of the shirt going on. I don’t understand it. I have found high quality wool to be comfortable in socks and gloves.

Mark-

I agree completely. I too went down the lets-try-wool-its-now-supposed-to-be-great-again path and came to almost exactly the same conclusion. I’ve gone back to powerdry on my torso (like the midweight zip-T in my avatar) and wool for extremities for the reasons you articulately mentioned. (My wife has now inherited a nice collection of merino base layers of various weights and colors.) <g>

I’ve come to find out that I have a lanolin sensitivity that contributed to the itchy feeling — the skin on my torso would turn red, like getting out of a hot shower, after wearing a merino shirt for a day. I can’t explain why I can tolerate it in gloves and socks??? Anyway, maybe you have a similar condition.

Cheers,

-Mike

[Gene .]

What about wearing a lightweight wool shirt with a capilene silkweight over it? Would this not draw the moisture away from the wool baselayer; resulting in the wool keeping you warm, and the capilene keeping you dryer (thus also warmer)?

It would make it easy to just remove the capilene shirt, wash it, wring it out and dry it. This should prevent that, ‘over due shower effect’ from permeating your person, and getting you ‘those’ stares in the off trail stores along the way.

[Mark Verber]

> What about wearing a lightweight wool shirt with a capilene silkweight over it?

For me this would be helpful because wool is still next to my skin which doesn’t work.

Beyond that, the capilene won’t “draw the moisture away from the wool baselayer” because the moisture is in the core / void space of the wool, not on the surface where wicking action could be effective.

–Mark

[Gene .]

Ok Mark I see your point about the moisture being held within the voids in the wool. I was thinking more of while one was hiking; the exertion should cause a certain amount of air flowing through the wool carrying with it some of the moisture vapor no?

[Vlad Putin]

>However, if I was expected truly wet >conditions and I needed a second >baselayer, the weight of wool may someday >be worth carrying in my pack.

Said in R. Lee Ermey Drill Instructor voice: “OH MY GOD! What do we have here? A hardcore super ultra-light backpacker admitting to the world he might carry a second layer of wool if he was going to a cold wet climate.”

The world is coming to an end…the apocalypse is near.

LMAO…

Vlad

[Vlad Putin]

You dont have a jelly donut in your UL backpack too, do you?

LOL

Vlad

[Vlad Putin]

There is nothing at all wrong with high end merino wool, especially for socks, gloves, hats and long underwear. But the best wool is that itchy (well SOME call it itchy) coarse wool that people complain they cant stand to wear. They only complain about it cause theyve probably never had to survive for extended periods in cold climates without access to a wooden shelter. I say learn to love it, its an acquired taste, like eating raw oysters or that very first beer you drank when you were, um, not legal to drink.

Synthetic/wool mixes are OK as long as the synthetic percentage isnt too high. You want mostly wool in the garmet.

And for those that dont know, the best way to launder wool is to ONLY use Woolite in cold water and let it air dry, dont bother putting it in the drier.

Vlad

[Mark Verber]

I understand learning to love things. It took me three years (approx 150 mugs) to learn to like beer. But sometimes you have to say enough is enough. After 10 years (~750 cups) I decided I was never going to enjoy coffee and stopped trying.

In the backpacking space I used wool shirts, external frame packs, and ponchos for 5-15 years. I didn’t complain because I though that the nature of backpacking was to ache, itch, and be damp. Eventually discovered and then switch to items that worked better for me. I was wonderful to find that I come hike 20+ mile days, face highly variable conditions while staying mostly comfortable. When I was experimenting with ultralight style I re-tried each of these things with the modern forms in case the improvements in the last ten years might make them useful for me. Guess what. They still didn’t work well for me. So I dumped them.

I know people who love wool, ponchos, and external frame packs. Good for them! I am glad they have found things that work for them. But as the saying goes, we each need to hike our own hike. I chimed in on this thread because I wanted people to know that not everyone who has try the switch to wool found it an improvement.

[Vlad Putin]

I would like to also say that synthetics are not bad at all. You can combine layers of synthetics with layers of wool. For example, a combination that is very good is polypropylene base layer. Capiline always seemed too light, too wussy to me. Polypro is very light but is warmer than other synthetic base layers.

Over the polypro base layer (which is VERY lightweight BTW), then wear a full blown, old school, scratchy, coarse wool pair of pants and button up wool shirt. Unbutton the wool shirt on the trail if you heat up.

The synthetic base layer gets rid of the itchy factor for those who have a problem with that, yet still allows you to wear wool.

For camp and at night and long breaks, have a hooded parka made out of a modern synthetic such as Primaloft or Polarguard Delta. For socks, stick with wool and if you wear liner socks, stick with a synthetic over cotton liner socks.

Then wear some sort of wool hat, like a wool watch cap.

I wonder if the Russian Army still uses wool clothing. Since their military operates in very cold climates, I wonder if you could get surplus wool pants and shirts comparable to US GI wool pants and shirts that were standard cold weather issue up til the eighties.

Those old US GI wool clothes were REALLY good and you could wear them over polypropylene. Somebody ought to get the patent on them and make them for civilian backpackers.

I saw some East German Army surplus wool clothing last year that was in good condition.

As much of a pro-wool guy as I am, I actually believe the best combination a lot of times is a combination of wool with various synthetic fabrics. And one thing in particular I disdain can be totally eliminated when you wear a lot of wool…softshells.

Like I said several times in the past, when you use wool, there isnt this need for these silly “soft shell” windbreakers that have become so (strangely) popular in recent years.

I think soft shells are so goofy it is ridiculous. The whole idea of it is just…stupid. Unless you rely on synthetic fleece, as unfortunately most seem to do these days, soft shells are just…extra clothing you gotta carry around all the time.

I backpacked for years and years and years and never once used a “soft shell” or a windbreaker of any type and never once missed it, thought about it or thought I needed one. The price of that “Windstopper” is ridiculous! Its almost as expensive as Gore Tex. Its a scam.

SKIP the softshell by wearing a coarse wool second layer!

And of course, always bring quality raingear. Whatever you prefer…paclite Gore Tex, eVENT, a nonpermeable waterproof poncho, whatever.

Vlad

[Vlad Putin]

>I understand learning to love things.

I really mean developing an acquired taste for something. You wont appreciate wool if you use it around town or for warm weather trips or even moderate weather trips. Where you will learn to like the stuff and thus develop an acquired taste for wool is during hardcore winter backpacking treks, multi-day trips, where you are on your own, self sufficient and its a “no sh*t” trip. And where its COLD and windy!

The weather’s cold, nasty, mean and you are probably encountering freezing precip or cold rains and the humidity isnt low like it is out West. Then you can quickly develop an acquired taste or even preference for wool…when the stuff saves you butt and you can feel the stuff works good.

Another thing about wool and the scratchy factor so many complain about, I noticed early on when I about 14 or 15, that when on the trail and pushing it hard, sweating heavily, etc. and in some pain or discomfort, you dont focus on the scratchiness or itchiness of the wool clothing you are wearing. You are focused on other things, getting up that next mountain, hydrating (even in the winter), when the next break is going to be, etc.

In other words, the itchiness of wool is the last thing on your mind out there in the middle of winter, when its freezing rain or sleeting and youve got five more miles to hump.

Winter backpacking is not usually associated with “fastpacking” BTW. Fastpacking is mostly a warmer weather form of backpacking, usually associated with some form of extremely long distance backpacking. Although for very fit, experienced, confident and well equipped backpackers, I see no reason whatsoever why winter fastpacking trips couldnt be typical rather than atypical.

As long as a blizzard doesnt hit you at least. <grin>

Vlad

[Roman Dial]

Ryan turned me on to wool as we planned the Arctic 1000.

One rule of thumb for choosing clothing is one insulative layer for every 20 degree F drop in temperature, starting at whatever temp you feel comfortable with nothing at all (save modesty).

So, for instance in spring in Alaska I can be comfortable shirtless to 60 F, then one Patagonia 1 wool layer on top and on bottom to 40 F, then to 20 F an added smartwool hoody on top and some midweight tights on bottom, etc.

I add a shell for wind/rain (shell is not insulating) and if it’s cold Alaskan rain I add another insulative top layer besides what the temperatures call for.

Finally I have a nice camp jacket. So Summer time in Alaska I carry four pieces of wool (three top, one bottom), and three synthetics (warm camp coat and tights and another synthetic underwear) .

I also found that my Smart wool has stretched less than my Patagonia wool. Product tester/designers at patagonia said it may be that Smartwool treats their wool with chlorine…..

Anyway, wool had been my choice for socks and gloves from the 1980’s to the 2000’s, with synthetics covering my body — but not any more.

Plastics stink and get clammy.

Roman

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