Question for you 5# – 6# base weight guys

[Troy Ammons]

For a 3 day hike roughly what CU packs are you using ??

[Justin C]

My base is about 6.5 and I use a MLD Burn. With all of the pockets its about 2200ci.

[Justin Tremlin]

My base weight is 5lbs 8.47oz. I’m using a Gossamer Gear Murmur Hyperlight Pack. 1700c.i. to 2200c.i.

[Nick Gatel]

In the past, GG Murmur here too.

But the biggest issue for me is usually water. Not a lot of it where I hike a lot of the time. So when the pack weight gets up near 20 lbs, and the pack is not comfortable. Actually anything over 10 lbs is not comfortable for 12 hours of walking. So then I would change to a GG Mariposa Plus, which is a little big in volume. Both are nice packs. But I have now moved to a McHale LBP 36, and a base weight of 10 lbs with a few more luxuries is much more comfortable than a much lighter base weight.

[Brian Hall]

+1 for the Burn

[Logan K]

My two main choices for my lightest base weight (5.5 lbs) is either the Murmur or my Ray-Way. I think the Ray-Way is something like 2600 cu in without the extension collar. If the forecast is on the damp side, I will use my ULA/ BPL Arctic with a 25 liter POE drybag.

Logan

[te – wa]

i like the Burn too. also, had a murmur but let it go, the new model looks promising. i also just ordered a Blast 26.
that will be my go-to pack when abrasion is not an issue.

[John S.]

1800 cubes.

[William Zila]

It's a homemade pack but it comes in at about 1,200 internal I strap my pad with my pot and clothes and other stuff rolled In the pad base weight is right at 5

[Kevin Cody]

How can you folks use such a small bag? don't get me wrong I understand ultra light gear takes up less room but do you really have to cram the sleeping bag in their super small & if so isn't that damaging the down? Could we get some pictures posted up of everything you bring and then all of it fitting in the bags just so my eyes go as big as saucers. Help me understand.

-Kevin

[Jamie Shortt]

Kevin, I have some detailed photos of gear and packing process on my website.

http://Www.LytW8.com

Look under gear list section.

Jamie

[Kevin Cody]

I have seen your site and quite impressed!

[Nick Gatel]

Here you go. This trip falls into the OP's question regarding 3 day trips. The trip also had 20,000' in elevation gain/fall over a little over 60 miles.

Base weight = 3lbs 15 oz

This is the gear.

Here is the pack… notice the roll top has a lot of room for more stuff.

Gear list:

Pack:
Gossamer Gear Murmur Pack 6.8 oz

Shelter:
MLD 2mm XtraLowStretch Guyline 1.0 oz
MLD Silnylon Pro Poncho/Tarp 8.8 oz
MLD Titanium Stakes (6) 1.8 oz

Sleeping:
GG 3/8" Foam pad cut to torso 2.6 oz
GGr Polycryo Ground Cloth 1.7 oz
Nunatak Arc Specialist Quilt 15.8 oz

Clothes in Pack:
Montbell Ex Light Down Jacket 6.1 oz
Montbell U.L. Windshirt 2.7 oz
OR PS50 Watch Cap 0.8 oz
Smartwool Glove Liners 1.5 oz
Smartwool Walking Socks 1.7 oz

Kitchen:
Caldera Cone, Stove, & Keg 3.8 oz
Platypus 1 liter water sack 1.8 oz
Platypus 2 liter water sack 1.3 oz
Snowpeak Titanium Spork 0.5 oz

Utility:
Dr. Bronner's soap 0.5 oz
Finger Toothbrush 0.05 oz
First Aid/Emergency Kit 0.6 oz
Spares Kit (Cuben Fiber sack) .06 oz
Spares Kit (matches) 0.1 oz
Spares Kit (Micropur tablets) 0.2 oz
Toilet paper (10 sheets) 0.2 oz

Carried or Worn:
Bandana 0.9 oz
Book of matches 0.1 oz
Fox 40 whistle (on lanyard) 0.2 oz
GG LightTrek 4 Trekking Poles 6.8 oz
Maui Jim Sunglasses 0.6 oz
Nylon Lanyard with Clip 0.8 oz
Photon II MicroLight(on lanyard) 0.4 oz
Sun Thermometer (on lanyard) 3.0 oz
Swiss Army Classic Knife 0.7 oz
Timex Expedition Watch 1.2 oz
Fisher Space Pen 0.2 oz
Topo! Maps 0.5 oz

Asics Piranha Racing flats 10.6 oz
RailRiders Adventure Shirt 7.7 oz
RailRiders EcoMesh Pants 12.0 oz
Smartwool Walking Socks 1.7 oz
Tilley AirFlow Hat 3.6 oz

Consumables:
Alcohol for stove 4.0 oz
Beef Jerky 16.2 oz
Instant Coffee 0.8 oz
Mountain House Dinners (3) 19.4 oz
Oatmeal (6 instant) 9.2 oz
Trail Mix 27.9 oz
Water (4 liters) 136.0 oz

Pack Base Weight: 3 lbs 14.8 oz
Consumables: 13 lbs 5.5 oz
Pack Weight (Total): 17 lbs 4.3 oz
Worn: 3 lbs 2.3 oz

Total (FSO): 20 lbs 6.6 oz

---

Here is the same trip a year later. This one entailed a lot of snow. The base weight ended up exactly the same, but no shelter was needed.

1. GG LT4 Trekking Poles
2. Food
3. Quilt
4. Spare clothes
5. Worn Cloths
6. Caldera Cone, Stove, Lexan Spoon
7. GG NightLight Torso Pad
8. Saucony Shay Racing Flats
9. Trowel (required by regulations
10. First Aid Kit
11. Personal Items Kit
12. Fuel Bottle
13. Tilley Hat
14. GG Murmur Pack
15. Maui Jim Bifocal Sunglasses
16. Camera
17. Micro Light and Whistle
18. Timex Watch
19. Map
20. Plastic Bag Water Socks
21. GG Polycro Ground Sheet
22. 2 L Platy
23. 1 L Platy (2 ea)

Pack Base Weight (all gear including the pack): 3 lbs 14.8 oz

Consumables (water and food): 12 lbs 7.3 oz

Pack Weight (Total): 16 lbs 6.0 oz

Worn Items: 3 lbs 8.4 oz

Total (From the Skin Out): 19 lbs 14.4 oz

Itemized Gear List

BASE ITEMS
Backpacking Light UL 60 Balaclava 1.9 oz
Cuben Sack for Down Jacket, gloves, baclava 0.2 oz
Montbell Extremely Light Down Jacket 6.1 oz
Montbell U.L. Windpants 2.3 oz
Montbell U.L. Windshirt 2.7 oz
Plastic Bags for feet in wet snow 0.4 oz
Smartwool Merino Wool Glove Liners 1.5 oz
Smartwool Socks 2.7 oz
Caldera Cone, Stove, & F Keg (complete w fuel bottle) 3.8 oz
Cuben Food Sack 0.3 oz
Lexan Spoon 0.3 oz
Nalgene Coffee Conatiner 0.5 oz
Platypus 1 liter water sack 1.8 oz
Platypus 2 liter water sack 1.3 oz
Map 3.0 oz
Gossamer Gear Murmur Pack (w/o foam in straps) 6.8 oz
Cuben Sack for Quilt 0.2 oz
Gossamer Gear NightLight foam pad (torso length) 4.5 oz
Gossamer Gear Polycryo Ground Cloth (40" X 96") 1.7 oz
Nunatak Arc Specialist (Med/.8oz Pertex Quantum) 15.0 oz
Driver License, ATM Card, Cash 0.4 oz
First Aid Kit: 1st Aid Ointment (2 ea) 0.1 oz
First Aid Kit: 1st Aid Towelettes 0.1 oz
First Aid Kit: 2" X 2" gauze (2 ea) 0.1 oz
First Aid Kit: Cuben sack 0.1 oz
First Aid Kit: Leuko Tape 0.1 oz
First Aid Kit: Medium Bandaids (4 ea) 0.2 oz
First Aid Kit: vial w/7 Advil 0.3 oz
Personal Kit: 12 micropur tablets 0.3 oz
Personal Kit: Cuben sack 0.1 oz
Personal Kit: Derma-Safe folding knife 0.3 oz
Personal Kit: Dr. Bronner's soap in mini-dropper bottle 0.4 oz
Personal Kit: Duct Tape 0.3 oz
Personal Kit: Finger Toothbrush 0.05 oz
Personal Kit: mini BIC Lighter 0.3 oz
Personal Kit: Thread, needle, etc. 0.1 oz
Personal Kit: Toilet paper (blue shop towels) 0.4 oz
Trowel – plastic (require by regulations) 2.0 oz

CONSUMABLE ITEMS
Alcohol Fuel for stove 4.0 oz
Beef Jerky 2.5 oz
Cliff Bars 2.5 oz
Fig Newton Cookies 11.3 oz
Goldfish Crackers 6.5 oz
Gorp 15.4 oz
Instant Coffee 0.4 oz
Mountain House Lasagna (repackaged) 5.2 oz
Mountain House Spaghetti & Meat Sauce (repackaged) 4.8 oz
Oatmeal (2 breakfast @ 2 packets ea; repackaged) 6.7 oz
Power Bars 11.9 oz
Water (liter) 136 oz

WORN OR CARRIED
Ex Officio Boxer Briefs 2.6 oz
Rail Riders Eco Mesh shirt (L) 7.5 oz
RailRiders EcoMesh Pants (M) 12.0 oz
Saucony Shay XC Flats 14.4 oz
Tilley AirFlow Hat 3.6 oz
Wright Socks 1.6 oz
Bandana 0.9 oz
Book of matches 0.1 oz
Cannon SD1200 IS Digital Camera (carried in shirt pocket) 4.9 oz
Fox 40 micro whistle (on Spectra cord lanyard) 0.2 oz
Gossamer Gear LightTrek 4 Trekking Poles (pr) 6.8 oz
Maui Jim Ho‘okipa MauiReaders Sunglasses 0.6 oz
Timex Expedition Watch 1.2 oz

My Backpack On The Office Chair For A Size Perspective

[Nick Gatel]

opps-double post.

[Kevin Babione]

Nice photos Nick – it really helps show the capacity of the Murmur. I added the GG Hipbelt pockets (modified for the narrow hipbelt) to keep things like the camera and snacks readily accessible.

[Jerry Adams]

That is amazingly low weight, Nick, and well documented

I have to ponder that and see if I want to get my base weight down more, which is like 12 pounds

[Nick Gatel]

Jerry,

That is the point… do you "want to get" base weight down more? I think there is a point of diminishing returns. Trying to get to an "arbitrary" point is not necessarily a good goal.

The two hikes I documented are very difficult. Day one is classified by Backpacker Magazine as the 5th most difficult day hike in America. Seeing that I am 60 now, it requires a pretty light kit for me to do it, plus there were 2 more days that average over 20 miles per day. Now add the fact that temperatures can easily range from 30F to 110F. Very difficult to assemble a kit that meets all the criteria.

Over the past few years, I have done many multi-day hikes with sub 5 base weights. A lot of this was just to see what gear is available, and what can I actually do. For me another issue is the lack of reliable water sources in areas I often hike. Going forward I am going to compromise in two areas, pack and sleeping pad. 3 season trips are going to include a Neoair. I am just getting too old to sleep in a foam pad. It takes me a few days to get conditioned to a foam pad now, and I would rather carry the extra weight. The other is an internal frame pack. A 3+ lb McHale is much more comfortable and useful for me.

But where you add weight, you can pare down somewhere else. Last year I bought an enLIGHTened quilt which is 3 oz lighter than my Nanatuk and has 1/2" more loft. But the girth is smaller and takes more work to use it correctly. I also bought a BPL Nano tarp last year, which weights around 5 oz. Part of parring down and diminishing returns is the cost of some lighter gear. That quilt and tarp cost quite a bit of money.

So my sub 5 lb base is going to creep up towards, to maybe 7 or 8. That is fine with me. Your 12 lb is a very reasonable weight, IMO. And where you live, weather is quite different.

[William Zila]

I agree with some of the previous posts don't obsess over a certain weight " I know cus I did " it's not the best method to lighten your pack I would recommend just going through everything you take and weigh it and make a educated decision if it's worth its weight for instance I have gotten some base weights of 4 lbs but I would rather carry my prolite over my foam pad I would rather have hot food then eat cold food it usally works out in one way or another that you sacrifice in one area to splurge in another

[Jamie Shortt]

Troy, To your original question…like other I can use as small as 1500 cubic inch total (ion) for summer temps (45+). Typically I use a main bag that is 1500 plus pockets. In North Carolina winters I often use a Ray Jardine MYOG pack which is 2600 cu inches. The only reason for this is a GG nightlight full length foam pad. It eats up a ton of space.

Nick, Nice post! I am a picture guy and I like to see how other's gear looks like before and after packing. I also like seeing others camps setup with ultra light gear, but that's another thread.

Kevin, Thanks for checking out my site. I realize it is mostly MYOG stuff so it might be hard to relate to commercial gear. In case you have not seen the following threads they show pics of my commercial and cottage gear and how it packs up. In the older thread (look for my replies to see detailed pics). It shows a 2.5 day set of gear going into an ion (1500 cu in). All of it was commercial gear and none of it was even cottage. In the newer thread I provide trip report on a new pack design from TrailLite designs. This pack is ~1500 cu inches in the main body. I used mostly cottage gear on this trip and it is a set of gear capable of 20 degree min.

Older commercial gear pics (look into thread for details of packing)…
Ion_thread

Recent cottage gear pics…
TrailLite_Thread

If there are other pics that would help let me know.

Jamie

[Mike M]

my Ion is roughly 1600 cu inches, I added side/front stretch pockets which really helped

I've done four day trips w/ it

[Corey Downing]

Anyone know of any sub-1lb packs in the ~30L range that are <$80? The cheaper the better. I think I can fit my 3-season kit in something at about 25L but I still need room for food.

[Mike M]

the MLD Newt is close @ 25 liters, sells for $80- well under a pound in weight

there was a lot of hope previously that the Golite Peak was going to be an "Ion Plus", unfortunately that didn't pan out (it's 35 liters, but is 1.5+ lbs)

[Corey Downing]

Yeah, I own a Peak and have had to relegate it to my travel bag as it's great carry-on size but even after trimming it down it's still heavier than my Ohm.

I'm trying a crazy experiment with a very small pack once it comes next week. Might be big enough for a summer kit but 3-season will be tough.

EDIT

Murmur is close to my price goal but I'm wondering how durable it is with all that silnylon. Comments?

The Newt is close but with no mesh pockets it's missing a few key components.

I wish the Burn was half its price but what can you do? If my experiement doesn't work out I may just order one anyways. Though I'm still waiting on my tarp from MLD…

[Mike M]

if you can sew (or know someone who does :) ), the addition of mesh outer pockets really makes an impact on how much you can carry

[Nick Gatel]

Scroll down this thread for a mini-review of TNF Flyweight Rucksack. 11.8oz and I paid around $35 for it. I use it as my carry-on luggage a lot, for week-long trips. Lots of day hikes and after that post even a few overnighters. Water bottles can fall out of the side pockets if you are not careful. I really like the pack. It is kind of big for day hikes, and I usually use a REI Flash 18 now.

The newer Murmur is sturdier than the old Spinnaker material. People have thru-hiked the PCT with a Murmur.

TNF Rucksack

[Author]

Posts