ultra light rain pants for ultra running/fastpacking

[Art …]

I looked up the Sierra Designs Cloud pant suggested by Peter above.

can someone help me understand the specs for this pant.

waterproof : 4,000 mm
breathability : 15,000 g/m2

this seems pretty breathable, but not very waterproof.

[Brian Lindahl]

Art – if that's what you really want, go with Luke's Ultralight Silnylon pants.

Also, by the way, you'll never get 34 degrees, raining, 50mph winds at 12,000'. In those situations, you're looking at hail or snow (almost always snow when it's that cold). When it's 50mph winds, you won't get rain, either – you'll get hail. Violent storms like that just don't produce rain at 12,000'. Also, the last place you want to be in that kind of situation is at 12,000' – you'll likely be moving very quickly to a more sheltered location, below treeline.

Considering 12,000', I'll assume we're talking about mountain environments in the Sierras/Rockies. Here's the storm weather patterns that happen out here:
1) warm temperatures in spring, summer and fall produce storms that come out of nowhere in the mid-40s with hail, lightning and high winds
2) cool temperatures in spring, summer and fall produce low clouds, very light snowfall/rain and minimal winds
3) storms in cooler temperatures in spring, summer and fall are VERY predictable and usually produce blizzards – unless you're a masochist, you won't be going out in such conditions anyway

I don't mean to sound condescending, but it sounds like mountain environments might be new to you? I'd suggest getting some experience in mountain storms. You'll be able to better form an opinion about what actually works and what doesn't. Rain pants would be one of the the last things I'd be bringing on a fastpacking trip.

(softshell pants or running tights and a rain skirt works very well, by the way)

If you disagree, I'd like to hear about your personal experiences that have made you think you need actual rain pants. I've found rain pants to be more of a PNW item (no experience in the midwest or east coast).

[Stephen M]

I was looking for a pair of UL rain trousers recently and went with a pair of Marmot Essence.

I know they are not going to be as breathable as my Event or Paramo trousers but fine for having in my pack in summer.

[Art …]

" I don't mean to sound condescending, but it sounds like mountain environments might be new to you? I'd suggest getting some experience in mountain storms. "

actually I've been an alpine climber for 25 years and spent a lot of time in the Sierra and a few times up Rainier. am just trying to go a bit more UL.

the scenario was just pulled out of my a$$ at the spur of the moment, if it wasn't meteorlogically normal I apologize, just trying to draw a picture.
and I did not say it was where I wanted to be, just where I happened to be … $hit does happen.

No I don't live in the Northwest, but have been in a few potentially hypothermic situations in the mountains, 60+ winds, wet snow, semi blizzard condtions, etc. am probably more wanting the pants for wind than rain, that's why I said storm.

soft shell or tights won't do.
my thought is a wind proof suit serves as a sort of vapor barrier which helps trap warmth even when wet.

[W I S N E R !]

Art, when you';re talking about 50mph winds, low temps, and high elevation, I'd suck up the weight and carry a goretex hardshell or similar.

Remember how many people were hypothermic or borderline hypothermic at the end of our R2R2R? Things were getting so bad on South Kaibab that Tori and I were on our hands and knees in a few exposed spots because the gusts and snow were so bad. We were seriously considering spending the night in an outhouse. I wouldn't want to repeat that situation without a good shell.

I carried an ArcTeryx goretex paclite shell on that trip. I believe it's about 20 oz. for top and bottom. Heavy by UL standards, I know. But I didn't mind the weight and it really saved my @ss at the end. I was warm and dry in blowing snow and sleet. I could've easily spent half a night exposed in it. I didn't wet out inside from sweat either; it's the best breathing shell I have for bad conditions.

When you say you aren't carrying a shelter, I'd then at least carry a solid shell.

[Brian Lindahl]

Agreed. If you're going out in blizzard-like conditions, then the extra weight of a true hardshell, IMO, is the best choice. For normal 3-season trips, softshell pants or tights and a rain skirt does the trick.

Art – you'd be surprised at how well a rain skirt blocks wind and keeps you warm in strong winds, hail or light snow (basically everything outside a blizzard), but no, I wouldn't recommend it for blizzard-like conditions. Nor would I recommend it for heavy rain all day (PNW).

[Art …]

Craig and Brian – so we agree a shell would probably be best for what I'm talking about.
the use I'm trying to discuss is for on trail or moderate cross country, not climbing, so I'm just looking for the lightest shell (upper and lower) that would work.
I am pretty happy with my North Face Triumph anorak as an upper.
just looking for a pair of pants to go with it.

… and yes, last years RRR conditions Were a bit interesting weren't they Craig.

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