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First aid and rescue kits – what to leave behind?


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  • #1690828
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    I've taken the same space blanket with me for many years, backpacking, day hiking

    Never used it

    On the one hand, if you never use something you should leave it at home, basic ultra light principal

    Maybe some day it'll be useful

    #1690834
    James Byrnes
    Spectator

    @backfeets1

    Locale: Midwest.... Missouri

    I have carried a small multi tool 2 oz and on several occasions have lent it to others to fix sleeping bag zippers. Also used the awl to repair a shoe sole. I carry large knit bandaids (the waterproof kind) these can always be cut down smaller. Duration of trip dictates number of bandages. Large bloody blisters can make travel difficult and proper dressing help control dirt and infection.

    #1690839
    Larry Dyer
    Member

    @veriest1

    Locale: Texas

    I've heard space blankets make the best lean-to's in winter because of the heat they can reflect off a fire (or you could line your tarp with it). That said, I don't carry one.

    I carry an Esee Izula wrapped in 550 cord and a 1/8"x2" ferro rod with a bit of magnesium stuck to it on my person (it's the one that comes in the Izula kit).

    My first aid kit and hygeine items live in the same area and include:
    – 10 Ibuprofen
    – 15 Extra Strength Tylenol PM
    – 2 "Mucinex" (the off brand without acetaminophen added)
    – 2 small butterfly bandages
    – 2 small Band-aids
    – 3 larger Band-aids
    – Tiny tube of antibiotic ointment
    – 3/4" thick wrap of Gorilla Tape
    – Rescue Inhaler(Epinephrine Based)
    – Esee Emergency 1/8"x2" Ferro Rod (.18 oz)
    – Wetfire cube
    – Sewing Needle
    – 2 small safety pins and 1 large safety pin
    – Floss
    – Colgate Whisp Toothbrush
    – Dr. B's

    There's a bit going on here so use this at your own risk. I'm not a paramedic, doctor, nurse, or any other medical like person. I've just taken the time to do a bit of reading and thinking. I obviously take no responsibility for you overdosing yourself or not being able to start a fire with an itty-bitty-teeny-weenie fire steel. This works for me and what works for you will be different. What works for me will probably change as the years go by too.

    Ibuprofen and Tylenol can be taken together to create a pain relief cocktail that's close to the effectiveness of morphine (ask your doctor or your dentist about this first).

    Man made tinder in two locations with fire steels. If you choose to use these little firesteels practice with them first – it ain't easy. These are light though and fire can save a person from a lot of mistakes. This is a great application for the adage two is one and one is none IMO.

    Tylenol PM is also a sleep aid if you need it. That's why there's more if it than Ibuprofen

    Name brand Mucinex has acetaminophen in it and if you've maxed out your Tylenol dosage and take it that could be bad. So off brand it is. It doesn't hurt that it's cheaper either.

    Gorrilla tape is stronger than regular duct tape and, just like regular duct tape, you can separate the strands woven onto it for thread in a pinch. It works mighty fine on blisters and hot spots too.

    Make sure your needle is big enough to accept floss.

    The inhaler is obviously for asthma but can be used to substitute an epi-pen in a pinch. If the passageway to the lungs is closed off already then (I've been told) inserting it so it will spray into the rectum works well.

    If you can't figure out a million and one uses for paracord then you probably don't need to leave the house on your own. But with it, the strong fixed blade, a firesteel with magnesium, and a bit of practice one could survive for quite a while assuming adequate water is available. With paracord and sheath my Izula weighs under 4 ounces (More like 3.4 IIRC) – and the sheath it comes with can be lightened up a bit.

    ONCE AGAIN use at your own risk. I take no responsibility for anyone getting themselves killed using this kit or one similar to it.

    EDIT: On the subject of survival mirrors I like the Silva Ranger compass because it's pretty cheap and has a mirror in it. There's no sighting hole but if you hold your hand up in front of it, make a "V" with your fingers, and get the light reflected onto the back of your hand you can flash it through the "V" repeatedly. Obviously, put whoever you're trying to signal in the "V."

    #1690872
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    Scott- it's a Fallkniven WM1 (re-handled w/ orange G10 so I don't lose the dam(n) thing :))

    Mike

    my FAK has gotten much smaller the last couple of years- small roll of gauze, leukotape, ster-strips, packet of triple antibiotic, small irrigator, tweezers from a swiss army knife- few meds: advil, tylenol, immodium, benadryl

    my small repair kit contains a few bits that can be used for first aid as well- duct tape, single use super glue, needle

    #1690885
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    There is a conundrum with basic UL principles and emergency gear. One tenet of UL philosophy is to leave out anything that won't be used. Another is to avoid redundant items. If you pack emergency gear, the goal is to never get in a situation where it is needed, but to be able to sustain basic needs if you do. It is like the airbag in your car: you might go a lifetime without using it, but you better have it there when you need it.

    How far you want to go with it is a personal choice. I do think backcountry travel demands more than a single edge razor blade and a couple band-aids. That doesn't mean leaping to a 1 pound first aid kit and a machete. My solution is to approach my emergency kit as I do my personal hygiene kit: use smaller amounts and keep to basics. I do have redundant fire starters and tools. Carrying a space blanket/bivy is hardly a back breaker and has many uses.

    I do hike solo most of the time and much of my hiking is day trips. If you aren't hauling tent and sleeping bag, I think some backup shelter is in order. A poncho and space blanket/bivy can get you through some nasty stuff. Add a fire and you might approach comfortable.

    I can see the merit in wanting to leave a space blanket behind if you have a tent and sleeping bag, but if you take a day trip away from your gear, a small kit is in order there too. I have the kit self-contained and ready to drop in whatever pack I am taking. The bivy model is 3.8oz, a two person blanket is 3.5oz and a single blanket is 2.5oz. The rest of my gear is light enough to "afford" the security it gives.

    #1690924
    Douglas Ray
    Member

    @dirtbagclimber

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Although I don't carry one very often, space blankets can have quite a few uses, particularly the two-person size. They can be used as a vapour-barrier under your clothes, and rigged up into a reflector oven of sorts by a fire. The really cheep mylar ones can be used as improvised sunglasses by tying a strip around your face, and they can be cut up for a large occlusive dressing (to treat something like an abdominal evisceration).

    Note that cheep space blankets that have been carried around for a couple of years often come out of the packaging as a bunch of strips rather than a blanket. I think AMK's sturdier versions probably don't have this problem.

    In the very un-scientific testing we did back when I was in SAR, we found that most improvised signal mirrors were quite ineffective. Actually making a flash of light that the other person can see requires a fair amount of precision, and we generally could only pull it off with a flat mirror with a hole in the middle. We all carried compasses with mirrors and signal mirrors to.

    #1691082
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    "Antibiotics? Enormously hyped, but do you have the faintest idea of when to use them, or for what?"

    Yeah, as a matter of fact, I do.

    Rather a blanket statement, I'd say.

    #1691188
    Larry Dyer
    Member

    @veriest1

    Locale: Texas

    "In the very un-scientific testing we did back when I was in SAR, we found that most improvised signal mirrors were quite ineffective. Actually making a flash of light that the other person can see requires a fair amount of precision, and we generally could only pull it off with a flat mirror with a hole in the middle. We all carried compasses with mirrors and signal mirrors to."

    For some reason I'm not really surprised.

    Do you still carry both or just a whistle?

    #1691192
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    as mentioned by others … id be much more concerned about emergency equipment on a daytrip …

    most overnighters or longer you already have enough equipment with you

    fire, navigation, shelter ….

    #1691205
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Hold your finger up in line with your target and dance the light on the tip of your finger while looking over the mirror at the finger and the target behind. The moving light spills over your finger and hits the target.

    #1691207
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    "most overnighters or longer you already have enough equipment with you

    fire, navigation, shelter …."

    Until you watch it float downstream, go over a cliff, dragged off by a bear— or a two-legged snake. Stuff happens.

    #1691213
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    dale …

    then you carry the fire, navigation and shelter on you …. thats what pockets are for

    or you dont get separated from your pack … or partner

    there's only so much risk you can protect yourself against … ultimately its a judgement call

    much more important is the ability to use it … i wonder how many people practice those skills at least one a year …

    #1691216
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    eric said "then you carry the fire, navigation and shelter on you …. thats what pockets are for

    or you dont get separated from your pack … or partner

    there's only so much risk you can protect yourself against … ultimately its a judgement call

    much more important is the ability to use it … i wonder how many people practice those skills at least one a year …"

    yes- exactly why I carry my knife and matchsafe on my person

    sometimes you do get separated, the whole point of the above

    <– more than once a year for me (I get to instruct it a minimum of a couple of times a year) :)

    #1691244
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    What 1st aid stuff you cary all depends on how lucky you feel.

    But the Sierra Club's stats show THE most common 1st aid problem after blisters is ankle sprains. So carry a roll of ACE bandage and know how to use it.

    Also you can carry a roll of 3/4 adhesive tape Instead of the ACE bandage if you know how an athletic trainer tapes a sprained ankle so that it has no lateral rolling motion, only fore and aft motion.

    After that I carry small amounts of meds as listed above plus small tubes of 500 mg. of crystalline powder aspirin for heart attack victims. It's very fast acting.(Remember, lots of we Sierra Clubbers are over 50, Sonny!) And I carry prescription pain meds for ME in case I have an accident that causes enough pain to keep me from sleeping or smiling.

    But, since I'm Ski Patrol trained in Outdoor Emergency Care (virtually the same as Wilderness EMT) I'm always the "designated group medic" for Club backpacking trips.
    As such I have to carry stuff like a Sam Splint, a cravat, more than usual adhesive tape, etc.

    #1691300
    Rod Lawlor
    BPL Member

    @rod_lawlor

    Locale: Australia

    Hey Roger,

    Nothing for snakebite? Just curious.

    Rod

    #1691314
    Danny Korn
    Spectator

    @d0nk3yk0n9

    Locale: New York

    I don't know what Roger's reasoning is for his decision, but I personally wouldn't bother carrying anything for snakebite simply because most of the suction tools and snakebite kits don't actually help at all and in some cases do more harm than good.

    According to the Annals of Emergency Medicine, a Sawyer Extractor applied as soon as 3 minutes after the bite only removes about .04% of the venom load.

    http://www.annemergmed.com/article/PIIS0196064403008138/abstract

    #1691316
    Rod Lawlor
    BPL Member

    @rod_lawlor

    Locale: Australia

    Sorry,

    I should have probably clarified. Australian snakes envenomate with a neurotoxin carried by the victim's lymphatic system. Effective first aid involves a pressure bandage over the entire limb, splinting and preventing the victim from moving. It's hard to improvise an effective pressure bandage, regardless of what the boy scouts tell you. (Actually in the 70s, tearing up a sheet/shirt might have worked on preteens long tubular limbs, but now they tend to be more conical)

    My understanding is that most north American snakes envenomate with a muscle liquifier toxin. To be honest, I'm not sure what the first aid is for this, but I doubt it's a pressure bandage.

    #1691326
    Larry Dyer
    Member

    @veriest1

    Locale: Texas

    From my understanding growing up in the sticks the only surefire method of treatment for for U.S. snakes (specifically rattlesnakes and copperheads) is to rush to the hospital and get the anti venom. From there it deviates with some people (read: hillbillies) saying to ice it on the way and others saying to apply a tourniquet above the bite. The idea is to slow the spread of the venom but I figure it's mostly just to calm the victim and keep everyone else calm because you did something.

    You really need to pay attention and not get bit. I think stepping on a snake and getting bit is a bigger threat to the average hiker than bears… it's really hard to step on a bear laying across the trail.

    #1691473
    Bob Gross
    BPL Member

    @b-g-2-2

    Locale: Silicon Valley

    "My understanding is that most north American snakes envenomate with a muscle liquifier toxin."

    The rattlesnake family uses a hemotoxin. It causes all kinds of collapse in the circulatory system. Preventing its movement by constriction bands is the preferred field treatment. Still, lots of localized tissue can be "predigested" by the venom. Most of the old "cut and suck" treatments have been thrown out over the last 25 years.

    The coral snake family uses a neurotoxin. It causes collapse of the entire nervous system, which tends to happen faster. Fortunately, coral snakes do not have any venom fangs in the front of their mouths, so they have to get a soft bite and then chew for a minute.

    Southern California happens to have one nasty critter called the Mojave Green. It is mostly a small rattlesnake, and its venom is mostly a hemotoxin. However, it also has some neurotoxin in it. A doctor can't tell if the patient has been bitten by a snake or whether he is drunk. That complicates diagnosis quite a bit.

    –B.G.–

    #1691772
    Eugene Hollingsworth
    BPL Member

    @geneh_bpl

    Locale: Mid-Minnesota

    It might take me a while, but sifting thu this post should help me get a solid, but minimal, effective kit together. I always seem to carry too much stuff.

    #1691777
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Rod

    > Nothing for snakebite? Just curious.
    I weigh 64 kg. A snake might weigh 1-2 kg. Does a snake really want to attack me? Going just on body weight, it hasn't a chance of winning, and the snake knows that instinctively. It can feel my ground vibrations as I approach, and will get out of the way.

    Yes, we meet snakes in some places. Red-belly blacks mainly, on sunny sandy river banks. (For Americans: potentially fatal.) Sometimes, one every 150 metres. Very territorial I think. But we just go around them and leave them alone.

    I'm 65, and I started walking around 14. In that time I have never been menaced by snakes, but at the same time I haven't made the drunk young male mistake of trying to kill snakes either. If you look at the statistics of snake bites and deaths, two things hit you in the face.
    * More than half the deaths are known to be drunk young males trying to kill the snake; how many more of the casualties were also attacking the snake is unknown.
    * The number of snake bite deaths is very small compared to drownings, murders, etc, and utterly microscopic compared to car deaths (more drunk young males).

    Nah, drop bears are more dangerous …

    Cheers

    #1692287
    Karen Kennedy
    BPL Member

    @karenk

    Locale: NE NSW - Australian subtropics

    Very interesting perspective Roger. I still don't think I'll leave the bandage at home though! Although admittedly when the bandage has actually been needed it's never been for snakebite (sprained ankle and broken ankle respectively).

    What do you take to prevent/treat drop bear attacks???!!

    KK

    #1692291
    Rod Lawlor
    BPL Member

    @rod_lawlor

    Locale: Australia

    Karen,

    I realised reading your post that I had no treatment plan for drop bear attack. I checked the Australian Venom Research Unit's web page, and they had no information either, but did have a page for platypus envenomation.

    http://www.avru.org/firstaid/firstaid_platypus.html

    I have to say, it's not pretty.

    "There is no specific first aid for platypus envenomation, but in all cases the person should receive medical attention. Strong analgesia will likely be needed following a sting, and tetanus prophylaxis should be updated if required.

    There is no platypus antivenom available."

    I've done a workshop with Ken Winkel, head of AVRU, and he is the master of understatement. I reckon those platypus spurs are going to hurt.

    I did check their stats for snakebite Australia wide, and they report several thousand bites each year, 300 uses of antivenom and 3.2 deaths per year (plus maybe a few unrecognised ones)

    Like Roger, I have no concern for any snake I see, but the ones I don't see worry me a bit. I'll keep carrying the snake bandage.

    (Karen, PM me if you'd like details of the one AVRU recommend and why)

    #1694921
    Curtis B.
    BPL Member

    @rutilate

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    How many of you carry your emergency/first aid kit on your person vs. in your pack?

    I've heard many stories about people having to cut loose packs while crossing streams, bears grabbing packs set down beside a stream, etc.

    I've taken to carrying mine in a small waist pack, along with a couple of snacks for the day, which gives me enough supplies to get out if the unthinkable happened.

    #1695255
    Mike M
    BPL Member

    @mtwarden

    Locale: Montana

    my FAK is in my pack, but my emergency "kit" is on my person- just for the reason you speak

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