The Stateless Society, WPB Cuben Mitts with 3-layer eVent Palms, limited availability.

[Javan Dempsey]

Here we go.

Fresh from the Society, prototype style. I'm limiting these to 6 pairs total for the first run. Here's a chance to own one of the first items made with the waterproof-breathable cuben. I've done very limited testing, so there's no performance warranty expressed or implied for the fabric. No refunds, but I will exchange if the sizing doesn't work out or if there's any build flaw.

CTB1B3-1.0 for the entire back, 3-layer eVent for the palms. Don't ask me to sell you any fabric, because I can't. I have very limited amounts of each. I'll offer these up in 3 sizes, S/M/L.

The cuben has a green tinge, but it's barely noticeable in this version of the fabric, supposedly Cubic is working on the coloring issue.

Anecdotally the breathability seems very good. I wore one mitt around the shop for half an hour while working today, and on the other hand, the original mock up I made out of silnylon. The sil hand was hot and soakey, the other was fine. Seems to be the same as the full eVent mitts I have, but YMMV.

Size small weighed 16g per pair before seam sealing with SeamGrip. I imagine the larges will weigh in around 20-22g per pair.

French seamed for durability.

Price: $65 shipped. I'll seam-grip them for you, but no guarantees on the beauty factor of the job. If you prefer to do it yourself, just let me know.

[Javan Dempsey]

5 left.

[John Mc]

PM me to get you the money. THANKS

[Javan Dempsey]

I'll be at the studio all day with no internet access, so anybody that wants one of the remaining 4 pair, just post here, and paypal javan.dempsey "at" gmail.com

I can make these in batches, so I should have them all out by the end of next week.

[Robert Carver]

sending money.

[Tony Fleming]

PM sent.

Tony

[jonathan lorenz]

I'll take a pair

[. .]

Javan, is this fabric less translucent than standard cuben?

[Javan Dempsey]

Aaron,

Yes, it's milky with a green tinge, about as translucent as tyvek. i.e. it would allow diffuse light through it, but it's not opaque at all.

[Javan Dempsey]

BTW, all of this batch are SOLD.

I'll try to offer another run in a couple of weeks.

[Joe Clement]

Thank goodness! My resistance was weakening.

[josh wagner]

those look really sharp javon… you seem like a great cottage gear guy from everythign i've seen on you on this forum and others. i wish you luck on your enterprise. where'd you come up with the name of your company?

[Javan Dempsey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_nation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness

My ideology is likely outside the realm of relevance to this forum.

Cheers!

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Any interest in sharing how much this wp/b cuben weighs per yd? This material seems to have so much potential.

[Brandon Sanchez]

Javan, don't go touting your political beliefs (as obvious as they might be), someone might be put off. Not me, for the record. Although I do get a chuckle out of the capitalistic nature of your enterprise ;) Maybe you should advertise your stuff on squattheplanet.com so anarchists can ride the rails in all their UL glory.

[Javan Dempsey]

Brandon, it is of course, ironic. Although personally I only take exception with capitalism as it transcends to corporatism. On a small scale, it's just a name for individual progress through inter-personal collaboration. Only the illusory currency aspect makes it so disassociate. I'll happily barter for the record.

As to my politics, I'm anti-political entirely, my thoughts and the social scheme don't mesh. I've got no desire to push my ideas on anybody, they're mine and I've got no need to validate them through others, but I definitely get what you're saying. ;)

Ultimately the name stands just to say that "I'm thinking about things differently" and hopefully my products will eventually reflect that. I want them to be tools for personal liberation, individually, not nationally.

That's how the "Pack Less. Be More." resonates with me.

edit: spelling.

[Steven Evans]

Any interest in sharing how much this wp/b cuben weighs per yd?

I think it varies slightly for each production run, but the latest CTB1B3-1.0 is 1.4oz/yd^2.

[Javan Dempsey]

Here's the info I was given:

1. CTB1B3-1.0, more durable as a standalone laminate. 48.3g/m^2
2. CTB1B3-1.0/NF, not as durable but could work well if you intend to use another liner (for jackets, etc). 30.6g/m^2"

The mitts use number 1.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Thanks guys. This is really neat stuff. I can't wait to see where this material winds up. Eventually it could be everywhere….rain gear, tents, bivys etc.

[Aaron Reichow]

Is there any more info on this kind of Cuben? There aren't any other mentions of CTB1B3 as a form of Cuben other than this thread, which seems odd. Is the Cuben itself supposed to be breathable, or just the eVent? I've seen mentions of breathable Cuben elsewhere here, but never with any details or specs… What's the deal?

[William Johnsen]

What is the fabric that Big Sky uses on their tents? The call it Let-it-por and says it's as breathable as Goretex (assumingly) and that it's made by Cubic tech. Is it the same stuff?

[Javan Dempsey]

Aaron,

There's no other mention of the model numbers, because I'm the first one to drop the info.

I've been told it's ok for me to sell gear made from this stuff, although I made sure to ask first. This is still "in testing" according to Cubic.

Like I said, prototype style.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I'd love to see some rain gear from you guys using this stuff. I just whipped up some cuben rain pants and they're going to be great for specific usages, but being non-breathable they aren't ideal for sustained use. WP/B Cuben has the potential to revolutionize how light rain gear can be for sustained everyday use. I guess this all depends on how waterproof it really is though and how durable that waterproofing remains.

My wild speculation on WP/B cuben is that it's still using the same spectra between the layers, but instead of mylar out layers they are using thin layers of PU. This theoretically would create a WP/B product of similar performance to today's membranes, but at a might lighter weight.

One idea is to make rain pants using regular durable cuben (ie. 1.2oz) in high pressure/wear areas (butt, knees) and then WP/B cuben elsewhere to give the garment breathability. Great rain pants could be created for around 2.5 – 3oz.

I realize I'm getting way ahead of things with all this speculation, but Cubic Tech has been teasing us for a long time now (at least a year) with promises of WP/B cuben and to date they haven't delivered much info besides what you've said in this thread.

[Javan Dempsey]

Dan,

FWIW, I've seen the performance numbers, and they don't look that great on paper, *BUT* and this is a big "but", bear in mind that cubic hasn't been in the business of figuring out ways to astronomically exaggerate the MVTR and HH numbers like the other companies who's core focus is on the WPB fabrics.

Even though the numbers seem low compared to the numbers posted by Gore/eVent (who's numbers, especially on MVTR, seems insane when you convert them to real world volumes), the basis of the fabric, (which btw, you're right about, it's spectra with either both sides laminated with a membrane, or one side) would logically seem to have the most potential, as far as breathability is concerned. There's definitely less obstruction for moisture transmission, than even the thinnest layer of woven nylon.

That being said, this stuff definitely has some of the cuben cons also. Puncture resistance is low, although the ptfe doesn't tear like the mylar layers do, since it has stretch. I'd be hesitant to make garments entirely out of it.

There's a reason why I decided to use some of my limited supply of 3-layer eVent for the palms. Another draw-back is that taping this stuff will be next to impossible, without welding. In the double laminated version, bonding wont be possible either.

That being said, there are definitely applications.

[Jeffs Eleven]

So does Cubic Tech just make WP/B stuff for us. Cause I know they don't need vapor transmission on sails.

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