Freestanding tent recommendations: BD Firstlight???

[Brad Groves]

I wouldn't recommend the Ahwahnee since it weighs about 7 pounds. For a little extra length, you could check out the BD Eldorado; adds 5 inches in length to an I-tent, weighs 5 pounds. The fabric is WPB.

How about your seasonal use of the tent to be? I've found WPB tents to be pretty darn steamy in the summer months. Haven't used the Nanoshield in the field, but the Epic wasn't ultimately waterproof… have heard reports of people getting wet in sustained heavy rain. I suspect it would be worse if your bag was shoved into a wall.

[Franco Darioli]

wouldn't recommend the Ahwahnee since it weighs about 7 pounds
Yes , I was thinking of size rather than weight…( at 5'7" the Firstlight is too small for me, that is why I bought the Lighthouse…)
Forgot about the Eldo.. (they have disappeared from the local scene)
Franco

[David Ure]

What about the Scarp 1 or 2? Or were these already mentioned?

[Sam Farrington]

David,
Craig mentioned the Scarp in his OP.

Craig,
Nice Pix from you and others. Thank you.

Was trying to decide whether to use some Epic Malibu, the same fabric that was used on the BD's, for a new tent project (freestanding).
So, spent megatime on the web reading reviews.

As here, there was both good and bad, including some awful failures. It was odd that people reported totally different water resistance in similar wet conditions.

But noticed that none of those reporting having actually observed and experienced failures affirmed that they had carefully seam-sealed. Not sure that many even realized the early BD Epics were not seam-sealed, since most products from the larger companies have been seam taped for some time.

Also, considering the jacket reports, noted that the fabrics used for jackets were not the same as the Malibu used by BD. Also had an Epic pull-over myself that wetted right out in heavy rain.

Noted also that BD's Malibu changed. The later version appears to be calendered on the inside, while the earlier is fuzzy on both sides. (Observed that BD put the calendered side on the inner).

Liked the qualities of the Malibu in other respects: Flexible and non-noisy, but doesn't sag due to the polyester. Under 2 oz/sy. Definitely does MVT in many conditions. So decided to risk using it for the half of the tent above the sleeping areas, but make a .5 oz Cuben half-fly to cover it just in case.

Am inclined to think that BD would not have shifted to the NanoShield were it not more water resistant, especially after the negative reports on the Epic. Have not been able to find any reliably negative reports about the water resistance of the newer NanoShield version. Would definitely get one were I not biased aganst the inside pole setup. Many report that it is not a problem though, and easy to get used to.

If you are serious about going up to 5 lbs, you might take a look at the Luxe Tiger Moth, which is 5 lbs, and is definitely a 2 person tent. The design, like the Firefly's, is uniquely suited to using stiffer carbon poles that would drop about 3/4 lb. But the BD's are obviously more space for weight, if you don't mind the internal setup; plus with some practice, they will go up in the rain without water entering the bathtub floor.

[Brad Groves]

Hi Franco, yeah, I figured… :)

Still waiting for a diagram or string structure from you showing how to pitch the Scarp w/poles inside (wait, actually, do I remember something along that line?)

Another potential option is the SD Convert. Discontinued, but I'm sure you could still find it online. Nice points: while single-wall, the poles feed from the outside into sleeves, so no futzing w/velcro or clips inside. Also has the corner reinforcement poles, & removable vestibule. Minimum weight about 4.5 pounds, tho packed weight is ~6.

[David Chenault]

(back to the original question..)

Craig, I own both of these. Here are some thoughts:

The TS is really wind resistant, if you can stake it down very well. From your description, it might have driven you mad on that night. Last month I spent a windy (gusts to 60+ mph) on a gravel beach in Glacier NP. I arrived at the site well after dark, with the wind pummeling the beach. The only other terrain for quite some distance was a 50 degree hill and dense willow thickets. Long story short, I spent 90 minutes ranging far and wide collecting big rocks and logs (100+ pound) to use as guy points. Burying sticks in the gravel didn't cut it. They'd get shifted around and eventually pull out. Once I got all the guy points of the TS cinched, they spread the load very well and while the sides flapped a fair bit, kept the shelter together and the rain squalls off my head.

Had I brought the Firstlight, I probably could've gotten by with six anchor points (four corners of the tent, two windward guy points) rather than ten. Stability would have been comparable, provided the anchors held. I think your intuition that something like a Firstlight would've been a bit less fuss in those conditions is correct.

What I really wanted was a bivvy, to just curl up out of the wind with little fuss. Should I have planned a bit better? Probably. Sometimes you're the nail.

[W I S N E R !]

Thanks David, good comparison…I've been wondering about the Firstlight vs. the Trailstar in wind.

I'm currently stuck between the two, with Eugene and some others getting me to really consider a Trailstar. Problem is, it's so close to my Shangri_la (though the Trailstar looks much better in the wind and more versatile in pitching options) it's close enough to that I have a hard time justifying the cost.

The Firstlight fills a hole in my current gear much better: I don't have a lightweight, solid winter shelter other than a double-walled, two man, 4-season Walrus tent that weighs in at 7 pounds. It's a complete bomb-shelter…but can't even by carried by either of my UL/LW packs (a Jam2 and Vapor Trail for winter).

The last source of confusion I have here is the Firstlight vs. the Hilight. I've found them both for the same price, but I like the Firstlight with vestibule better…The Highlite looks like it has better venting/views, but I don't care for the tapered foot. One disadvantage of the Hilight that I could foresee: the vestibule is on one of the large sides…yet you'd want to pitch the foot to the wind, making them adjacent. I could see this making it harder to keep your door/cooking area out of the wind. The Firstlight, by comparison, with foot pitched to wind, puts the entrance/cooking area on the opposite side…Don't know if this is an issue. The Highlite looks much easier for two people to get in and out of, but I'll likely be carrying this solo so it doesn't matter.

Comparing the sizes, they're really similar.
Hilight: 82"long, 50" tapering to 42" wide, 40" tall. It's diagonal is ~7'10". 27 sq. feet.
Firstlight: 82"long, 48" wide, 42" tall. It's diagonal is ~7'11". 27.3 sq. feet
That's a very minimal difference in size on paper. I'm guessing it might simply feel roomier due to a larger door?
But for a 6'2" sleeper like myself, I don't see the difference when laying down.

I'll likely go with the Firstlight…I think I like the igloo-style vestibule/front door better.

The Firstlight is going for $299 everywhere I see it. Anyone got a coupon code :) ???

[. .]

I went through the HiLight vs. Firstlight and am pleased to have ended up with the former. If I expected to find myself on very narrow ledges on steep headwalls, the latter would be preferable because of the medial entrance.

The following photo shows the 'wings' on the Hilight, which theoretically provide additional wind-stability. In addition, these act as vent covers and provide for a much more substantial covered entrance. As you can see here, I did not bother using the guy-lines even at this somewhat exposed camp. Don't forget about the larger discontinued Lighthouse, if you are comfortable using Epic. One report here observed the Epic to be more durable actually.

[Jerry Adams]

Love the background of clouds and mountains to the rear – maybe Adams and Hood?

[. .]

Yes, that is Adams and Hood from ye old trusty crusty iphone.

[Jerry Adams]

So where were you camped?

[David Lutz]

I admit I get lost in all these posts…..

We decided that the BD Firstlight and Highlight are good options when you anticipate conditions where stakes will not necessarily hold well, right?

And obviously these two two tents will hold up in the snow.

But how will they do in the wind? Especially have a tall aspect ratio….

[First Last]

I have both versions of this tent, the EPIC from 2004 and a NanoShield from 2010, so here is my perspective.

The dimensions of the tents are identical, the floor material appear similar, the corner pockets of the Nanoshield are made from lighter material, the door, window, zippers and poles are all exactly the same. The Nanoshield version weighs maybe an ounce more than the EPIC. The canopy material is the difference between the two.

The differences can be reduced to this: EPIC is more breathable, Nanoshield more waterproof.

The Nanoshield is also more fragile and I managed to make two small holes in the material whilst setting up the tent, something that had never happened with the EPIC version.

This past summer I did a longer trip (10 days) and some weekenders, switching between these two as well as my MSR Hubba. What I concluded was that I still really love my old, dirty, trusty FirstLight, but I've also found a new appreciation for the Hubba (also a number of years old.) So that leaves the new, yet somewhat used FirstLight up for sale if anyone is interested. I bought it on sale for $240 and would let it go below that obviously.

[W I S N E R !]

I sent you a PM inquiring about this tent.
Thanks,
Craig

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