Trying to go Ultralight

[Larry Dyer]

You said, "Get all of your gear together and put it on the table or counter about a week before your trip. Each time you walk by your gear, look at and find something around the house that will do the same thing, but is lighter and smaller. By the time you take your trip, your pile of gear should be way smaller than when you started."

This is a great idea! It is truly amazing how much you can improvise from around the house.

[Jeffs Eleven]

I hear ya, but I mean, this is what we do all day long. We meaning us. Well that sentence doesn't really do anything… -We meaning BPLers and other light-minded individuals. Really it doesn't even have to be light-minded people, just industrious people in general.

What I thinking is, I don't think looking at my gear for a week will get me to come up with something. It might, but I sit around all the time thinking and talking and reading this infernal website and trying to improve my kit all the time. At the grocery store I look at containers- who cares whats in it, I just want the container. I've seen all the sheeit around my house a million times and nothing coming to me that I haven't already thought of. If my stuff is in the corner, then my stuff will be in the corner. But I don't think it'll inspire me with what I already have.

[Larry Dyer]

Well… that's true. As it stands I need some real cash to lighten up. I can't just look around the house anymore. I guess I've reached the point of diminishing returns (a.k.a. Cuben Fiber). I still stand by this being a good idea for people starting out who have the space to do it.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Yeah, me too. THere are certain things, like my pack, that I'd rather go with a heavier one because the UL ones, while very sexy, just weren't comfortable for me. Well my SMD Traveler was comfortable, but its too big for my needs (and really, its not UL anymore). I guess my bad back pains me but plenty of other folks with bad back use UL packs with no probs. I use and love a Gregory Z35. It fits me so well. Its heavy @ 3lbs 2oz but so comfortable that it "feels" lighter cause i don't notice it. I still rarely get to 20lbs trail weight.

I love the idea of cuben for drybags and that ground sheet that Joe V has looks sweeet, as well as all the cuben shelters, but I really dont see myself in a Blast and I can't really afford a cuben shelter. Maybe I could, but I don't want to yet. Plus, I want to be comfortable rather than push the limits Oh well.

[Larry Dyer]

I'm (un)fortunate to live in a climate where most of the year I can use a Golite Ion or similarly sized pack. I couldn't justify spending the money to buy a larger pack for the few trips I take where the Ion won't work so I jut nabbed a Jam2 off Geartrade. I'm happy so far and the bang for the buck can't be beaten. A CDT might beat it weight wise but it's got more vulnerable mesh pockets and I might have to actually carry nearly 30 pounds every once in a while so I think the Jam2 is a good call there.

I lust after cuben fiber dry bags for sure! Anything larger in cuben would need to be MYOG for me to come close to justifying the cost. As it stands I'm pretty happy with silnylon.

I still think a silnylon poncho tarp is the way for us Texans to go starting out over a blue tarp. Here's why: they're easy to sell off on gear swap, can always just be used for a poncho, can make another shelter larger by creating a vestibule, is good on dayhikes in case of emergency, you'll want to have rain gear anyway starting out so this way you get that and shelter, and be able to put more money towards a better sleeping bag. In contrast once you graduate from the blue tarp it's almost worthless and the grommets tear out pretty easy. I'm not sure I'd trust a blue tarp to live through one of our Texas thunderstorms.

Lets say you spend almost $10 on the smallest blue tarp and another $10 on a driducks poncho. That's about $20 off what you should be able to find a silnylon poncho tarp for. And if you buy the driducks suit you're even closer and have a time bomb for pants so you'll still have to rig something up there. Combined with the space savings in the pack a $40-$50 poncho tarp just seems like the way to go. You'll always have some sort of use for it and it really doesn't break the bank.

[Troy Ammons]

Campmor 5×9 poncho tarp – 9 oz.

You are right about Texas thunderstorms though. I was out in a tent for about 4 weeks in the panhandle. It can get pretty dicey at times.

[Mary D]

This thread has been very helpful to me, especially Troy's remarks! Thanks, Troy and all of you! I've been fighting the last 2 lbs. of my "non-big-4" for quite a while.

Brandt, in "remodeling" my too heavy (6 ounce) first aid kit, I found a great model from Glen Van Peski of Gossamer Gear. Here it is: http://www.gossamergear.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Glen_WIMB.pdf (first aid stuff is listed separately on the second page). Here's the video that goes with Glen's list–it's the first one on this page: http://gossamergear.com/wp/support/videos Glen's gear list is a bit too spartan for me (this old lady needs a few creature comforts, especially a nice thick cushy sleeping pad and a really warm sleeping bag), but his first aid kit looks great. I also strongly recommend you find and take a Wilderness First Aid course. One thing it teaches you is how to improvise from what's at hand so you don't have to carry so much stuff. You also need to consider the probabilities of horrid things happening (i.e., risk assessment). For most incidents requiring heavier medical gear that you can't improvise, the probabilities are infinitely small, unless you engage in unusually risky behavior. What are the most common injuries? Blisters, small cuts and scrapes, maybe at most a sprain. How much you take depends on the situation, of course–when I'm out with my three grandkids, my first aid kit (which then becomes a group kit) is far larger than when I'm solo!

[Larry Dyer]

Can you link the poncho you're referring to Troy? I'm looking at their site and don't see one that is significantly cheaper than the Golite option once the current 40% off coupon is applied. This should bring it to about $48 which is within $10 of any of the comparable off brand ones at Campmor. According to Golite it's also lighter than what is advertised at Campmor. The only one that really seems close is the Equinox poncho at $45.

I've been happy with the quality of my Golite packs so far and am hesitant to recommend off brand gear I've never used when name brand is so close right now.

[Bob Gross]

"What are the most common injuries? Blisters, small cuts and scrapes, maybe at most a sprain."

It varies a lot from one location to another. Small cuts and scrapes are almost insignificant, because they may hurt, but they won't stop you from continuing. A bad sprain (or worse) may stop you.

One of the more serious injuries common to backpackers is a penetrating wound from a broken tree branch. Typically there is a tree down across a trail, and the person stumbles a little when stepping over it, resulting in a jagged wood injury to the leg. About the only first aid is to use something to prevent a bacterial infection within the wound, since it may or may not be easy to clean out.

I took that one step further with a stumble onto a sharp and dirty rock in a trail. Cleaning out the deep wound was one task. Then applying a tiny amount of anti-bacterial cream and taping it up. Then self-medicating with a prescription painkiller. It got ugly out there.

–B.G.–

[Troy Ammons]

"Can you link the poncho you're referring to Troy?"

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___20275

[Larry Dyer]

Yeah that one is the same price as the golite poncho on sale and a little heavier.

[Brandt]

Hey everyone. Thank you for all the wonderful help you have given so far. Larry, thanks for the idea of a poncho tarp, but I think I will just stick with the flat tarp and a DriDucks suit. It may be a bit heavier, but I don't want my main shelter also possibly getting torn/messed up on the trail.

Now, I came up with an idea that I think might work great as a year-round sleep system, here in TX at least. I was thinking of making a Tyvek bivy with no-see-um netting attached to it. The netting nearest the head would have velcro on it so you can get in and out while the rest will be fixed to the bivy using spray adhesive. If it is hot weather, like it so often is in TX, the tyvek will just serve as a groundsheet. But if its windy, rainy, and/or cold, I can just hop in the bivy. There would also be tie out points incorporated into the netting so that it can be pulled off the body. I just wanted to run the idea by everyone and see what they thought. This would be more versatile than just the Integral Designs BugaBivy and it would be cheaper. anybody have any thoughts/ideas?

[John Donewar]

Brandt,

>>Tyvek bivy with no-see-um netting attached to it<<

>>the tyvek will just serve as a groundsheet. But if its windy, rainy, and/or cold, I can just hop in the bivy. There would also be tie out points incorporated into the netting so that it can be pulled off the body.<<

Except for the difference in materials and perhaps your own personal choice of dimensions you are describing my Meteor Bivy and the way that I use it.

You can download the
instructions and pattern by clicking on the embedded link.

If you care to you can substitute the tyvek for any of the silnylon or WPB nylon suggested in the instructions/pattern.

Just my 2 cents, I'd go with sewing the seams.

Party On,

Newton

[Troy Ammons]

If you are not into sewing you can glue tyvek with waterproof wood glue.

Better yet Mcnett aquaseal urethane repair adhesive and sealant.
It will basically glue anything to anything and even silnylon to cuben or netting or tyvek etc. All the pull tests I have done the material failed before the glue.

Only material that would pull away with some strength was polycro.

If it were me I would drop some coin and build one with a cuben tub floor at least and just carry a small piece of polycro for a ground cloth.

Tyvek isnt really 100% waterproof, so I would also combine it with a small tarp like a
poncho tarp, preferably cuben if you want it super light.

The 1.25 oz tyvek is also sort of fuzzy on one side unlike the builder stuff so its going to pick up a lot of crud if not protected.

[Brandt]

At Newton. Awesome design! I really like it. But, it looks really complex and I don't know if I can pull something like that off with the zero experience I have in sewing. If I could sew, I would probably jump all over it.

At Troy: I was thinking of using 3m super 77 spray adhesive and the Homewrap tyvek. I still plan on using a tarp, this bivy would just be additional protection against the wind/ rain.

[John Donewar]

Brandt,

>>I was thinking of using 3m super 77 spray adhesive and the Homewrap tyvek<<

Part TYVEK-60 – Tyvek #14 White – Soft
PRICED PER YARD. White (natural) color. No printing.
Price: $4.50

This stuff is available at the Hang-em High Online Store . I use it for ground sheets. No printing and it is soft.

Party On,

Newton

[Larry Dyer]

I understand completely about not wanting to expose your only shelter to the trail as rain gear. There are a lot of places I wouldn't want to wear a silnylon poncho out here.

Keep in mind that the Dri-Ducks aren't going to be that sturdy either. Bring duct tape.

[Brandt]

Yeah. I have some duct tape in my emergency kit. Maybe I will add some more to compensate for that possibility.

And without further ado, what I think is my final gear list, to be fulfilled over a really long period of time.

Shelter Pack Sleep
31 GoLite Jam (L) $105
24 Montbell UL Spiral Down Hugger # 3 (Long) $241
11 Therm-a-Rest Z-Lite Short $30
10.5 Oware Flat Tarp 6×8 $76
5.9 50 ft Triptease, Stuff Sack, Stakes(6), Dropcloth $15

Water Kit 7.9 oz altogether
Platy Bottle 2L (Dirty Water)
plusBottles 1L x2 $24
Aquamaria Frontier Pro Filter $20
Platypus Drink Tube Kit $13
Katadyn MicroPur MP1 Tablets $13

Cooking 10.4 altogether
Cooking Set
Cat Can Stove
GSI Pinnacle Soloist Set
Foil Windguard
Lighter

Fuel
7.2 8 oz fuel bottle w/fuel

Utility/Everyday 13.6 altogether
Silva Guide Compass
Surefire G2 LED
Bug Spray
Traveler Toothbrush
Toothpaste
Hand Sanitizer
Chapstick
Sunscreen

Clothes
12 DriDucks Suit $25
4.6 Patagonia Capilene 1 Shirt
Base Layer
18.9 North Face Khumbu Jacket
Hiking Socks
Balaclava
1.7 Under Armour Gloves
Bandana

Emergency Kit 2.7 oz altogether (except items with oz listed after them)
Band Aids
5 WP Matches (.7 oz)
Needle and Thread
Duct Tape
Razor Blade
Spare Water Tablets (.5 oz)
Weber Fire Cubes x2 (.8 oz) (Not sure if I need)
Suture Strips
Advil
Tylenol
Claritin
Ibuprofen
Anti-Diarrheal
Rubber Bands
Safety Pins
Krazy Glue
Lint

I changed my shelter to just the O Ware Tarp. If I really need some bug protection, I can use bug spray for mosquitoes or make a cheap bivy with some netting on the face area. This is also my attempt to go even lighter.

Total weight is 162.6 ounces, or 10.1625 pounds.

[Larry Dyer]

Not bad. Not bad.

I'm pretty sure you'll need some sort of water resistant bivy to protect your sleeping bag from rain in a really hard storm with that tarp. It seems a little small to use by itself. Personally I don't think the extra 6 inches on each side over my 5×8 would be enough for me to leave my bivy at home. If I were going to carry a flat tarp and only use it for shelter I'd go with a 10×8 so it can be pinned down to the ground on the sides and still have plenty of room.

Gossamer Gear used to make a torse sized bug net that could be tied to your guylines. I don't see it on their site now though. It used rocks to hold the "door" down and you just lifted it up to get in. The idea is that bugs can't get to you through your bag anyway or, in warmer weather, you'd have repellent on the clothes you were sleeping in and it would keep them from buzzing near your face during the night. You might look into making something like that.

EDITED for my lack of reading. I missed a couple of posts on the last page.

[Troy Ammons]

>>At Troy: I was thinking of using 3m super 77 spray adhesive

That might work,but not 100% sure. It is a good glue, but not sure about wet/dry/wet/dry etc. I would use a higher quality waterproof glue, plus you only need to glue a small strip.

IMO you should start with a 8×10 tarp. Go smaller later if you want. 8×10 is a lot safer and more forgiving to start with. My sil 8×10 weighs 14oz so not that much more than a 6×8, but a lot more coverage.

In winter a 10×12 is sweet because you can basically form a tent with makeshift doors, even over a hammock. They weigh about 19oz so a bit heavy.

[Larry Dyer]

A 10×8 is definitely not much heavier than a 6×8 and a Tyvek bivy. I'm not up on the weight of Tyvek but I'm pretty sure it's going to make up the difference between the 2 setups. And the larger tarp will be more comfortable in a down pour.

There really isn't much in the way of weight savings with small tarps until you use them for rain gear or make one of those amazing 2-3 oz. cuben bivy bags. Your 8×10 is actually within an ounce of my ID 5×8 tarp/rain cape and Tigoat bivy.

[Brandt]

Thanks for the input on the tarp. I really would like to not have to worry so much about a bivy unless I am going out into extremes of Texas weather. So, I think the 8×10 tarp would be a better starter tarp anyways, and more forgiving. All for only 3 ounces more. I'll take it. I also found the MLD Exodus pack, which only weighs 16 oz. Wow! That cut off a pound from my theoretical gear list. Also, I forgot that fuel doesn't count into your base weight, since it is a consumable. Only the bottle factors in. With all those changes to my gear list, my total weight is 144.4 ounces or 9.025 pounds. That is totally amazing to me. I didn't think I could ever get my base weight down that far. I still don't have a couple clothes factored in, but they will be shortly. I really don't expect those few things to push me farther than 10 pounds though.

[Troy Ammons]

Take a bivy too and set it up with some netting especially if you have a down bag or quilt.

A 1.25 oz tyvek bivy will weigh about 8oz oz

[Brandt]

Yeah. I may add that in later, if I feel I need it. Also, if I am worried about bugs, I may make some sort of simple netting to attach to my tie outs on the tarp, as Larry had mentioned. They would be held down with some rocks. I think that I could tie down the tarp low to the ground and not have to really worry about using a bivy. But, experience will tell me for sure, and I can adjust accordingly.

[Steven Paris]

I have a MLD Exodus and it is a great pack. It is frameless, but with weights in the low 20 lb range (with your consumables), I think you will really like it!

[Author]

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