Denali Gear List

[S Long]

This is my tentative gear list for climbing Denali in June of 2012. This is a first draft so I don't have weights yet and am undecided on a few items. Any feedback on this list would be welcome and helpful. Overkill? Too little? I appreciate comments and suggestions.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tKuXp_hy-TmIox2o5J6WHCw#gid=0

[Link .]

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[Greg Foster]

I'd consider taking a little more down insulation than just the flash pants and Frostline.

[Ken Larson]

email sent

[Mike Clelland]

– NIX the headlamp.

– NIX the mirror.

– and the Old Spice deoderant is a joke right?

[David Ure]

I agree with Mike – but why no headlamp?

[S Long]

Do I still have a headlamp in the list? I didn't mean to include that. I will fix it. No headlamp because it never gets really all that dark in June on Denali.

[David Ure]

AHA!

[S Long]

List updated a bit. Any more comments?

[Josh Newkirk]

Im just sort of curious, why do you have two sets of insulation gloves and overmitts?
Spares?
Pending conditions?

[. .]

A few humble thoughts:

1) Why do you have a shell + soft-shell pants? What about wind-pants instead, or neither?
2) Wool Mittens seem heavy and overly-redundant
3) Consider nixing the Cyclone Buff and Merino beanie and replacing with a Black Rock Down Beanie (save ~3 oz.)
4) Nix the Snowpeak double-wall mug – just use the bowl for drinks (save ~4 oz.)
5) Take an extra lighter or spark source (+ .5 oz.)
6) Instead of 2 locking 'biners, just use two wires opposite and opposed for your harness and just use non-locking for everything else. (save ~10 oz.)
7) OR Water bottle parka (can you make a lighter one out of reflectix or ?) (save ~6 oz.)
8) The thermos's are nice, but if your cozy is good enough, why bring it?
9) 48 oz. Nalgene for a pee bottle – that's a serious bladder! ;)
10) Ascenders – use Tibloc's, but practice in advance.

[S Long]

1) Why do you have a shell + soft-shell pants? What about wind-pants instead, or neither?

Recommendations from combing the web and personal experience in winter conditions. My experience seems to indicate that softshell pants wet through too easily for sustained use and windpants have the same problem.

2) Wool Mittens seem heavy and overly-redundant

Agreed. Nixed.

3) Consider nixing the Cyclone Buff and Merino beanie and replacing with a Black Rock Down Beanie (save ~3 oz.)

The Cyclone Buff is for wind protection for my neck mostly, as well as extra insulation. I like its versatility. The Black Rock seems like a pretty sweet piece of gear. I may try it out and nix the smartwool.

4) Nix the Snowpeak double-wall mug – just use the bowl for drinks (save ~4 oz.)

I kinda agree on this but other recommendations and web research says that one would be nice to have. I've never found a need for one though. I think I will drop it.

5) Take an extra lighter or spark source (+ .5 oz.)

Good idea. A firesteel is light and reliable.

6) Instead of 2 locking 'biners, just use two wires opposite and opposed for your harness and just use non-locking for everything else. (save ~10 oz.)

I am actually wondering if a rappel device might only be needed for descents. I don't foresee any need to use an auto-bloc to belay a second. In which case I can also go with a different and lighter rappel option.

7) OR Water bottle parka (can you make a lighter one out of reflectix or ?) (save ~6 oz.)

The O.R.'s are a bit overkill but are tried and true. I don't know of anyone who makes a better cozy for waterbottles.

8) The thermos's are nice, but if your cozy is good enough, why bring it?

Agreed. Nixed.

9) 48 oz. Nalgene for a pee bottle – that's a serious bladder! ;)

Rather be safe than sorry. Maybe go a few times in a night.

10) Ascenders – use Tibloc's, but practice in advance.

Agreed. I already have a few.

[James holden]

a few comments about things in general

1. always bring a single HMS locker … allows you to munter in the worst case situation … the lightest one i know is the DMM sentinal which i use … but i would pay a weight penalty to find the one i can most easily manipulate in gloves and in the snow … you can use 2 opposed non lockers but they dont make em in HMS … you want the extra space … make sure your ATC/reverso can handle frozen ropes as best as possible

2. FS Minis … make sure you can easily handle these in the cold … there's a reason why not too many people use em ice climbing … ALL climbing gear should be tested at the store with the gloves you will be using … i always have 2 solid gate biners for a carabiner brake if i drop my atc

3. you have one set of mitts … which is fine if they dont get soaked, and ifyou dont lose em … if yr mitts get soaked, yr simply put, screwed … if you drop a mitt, you lose a hand period … maurice herzog putt his mitts down on the snow on the first ascent of annapurna (the 1st 8000m peak climed), they slid down the mountain and to this day he has no fingers … what;s a few extra ounces worth? …

4. ascenders … will you be ascending fixed ropes? … make sure you can use tiblocs effectively on any ropes you encounter … sometimes having a real handle will make life easier … and thus faster … you want to be fast and light … not light and inefficient

5. thermos … i love having one in winter … you can use it as a double wall mug … its a luxury … but there's nothing like a hawt cuppa …

[S Long]

Thanks Eric. I think I will leave the Petzl Attache on the list. Easy to use and user friendly, albeit a bit large. I have been using the FS minis for three seasons now. I'm sold on them, but I know some of my climbing partners have issues using them. I have also been using the Tiblocs for awhile now and am pretty familiar with them. You make a good point on the mitts, though. Anyone have recommendations for a second pair? I think the thermos is a bit overkill. I have one but it rarely gets used. I don't drink coffee. All that is left is hot chocolate and cider, and I'm not on the mountain to have a tea party so I will just leave it home.

[Bob Gross]

"I think the thermos is a bit overkill. I have one but it rarely gets used. I don't drink coffee. All that is left is hot chocolate and cider, and I'm not on the mountain to have a tea party so I will just leave it home."

The traditional drink of mountaineers is hot tea. Also, there is hot Gatorade.

–B.G.–

[Sieto van der Heide]

As I'm preparing for my own Denali climb (may 2011), it's good practice for me to compare gear-lists :-)
Maybe I'll post my list sometime soon, too.

Some comments on your list:

– I would swap the Softshell top with a Windshell, it's lighter and you seem to have enough insulation layers
– With the OR Radiant suit, i would nix one of your 3 top base-layers
– A 150 liter (9500cuin) duffel is nice and big, but 2.2 kilo (4lbs 15oz) is a lot of weight for a duffel, almost as much as your tent!
– For Nalgenes, don't take the Tritans, but Polythene. Save over 2 oz per bottle.
– Ice Axe tip: Camp Corsa Nanotech
– Crampon case: how heavy? there may be lighter options.

What i'd expect, but don't see:
– You're only taking liner gloves and for the rest mitts, a light wind-proof glove is nice to have on the lower glacier
– A spare pair of sunglasses can be very usefull (if you loose your glasses early on, its no fun having to wear the goggles all of time)
– sleeping bag compression bag
– dito for the parka
– stuff sacks
– camera and some form of entertainment (tent days can be boring)
– something seperate to eat and drink out will be nice
– Where's your snow and ice protection? Pickets, Ice screws?
– Do you need a snowsaw?

[S Long]

I was debating on the softshell. That's a good point. I will take out one of the Icebreaker tees. The duffel is NOT going up the mountain for me. It's to cram everything in for air travel, so weight is not a huge concern there. Maybe leave it off the gear list? I have the polythene ones. The crampon case IS a super heavy Petzl one. Maybe I can make one out of Dyneema gridstop stuff. I should try on some gloves and find a decent widproof one. I have some Black Diamonds but they are a bit too small. I figured on taking two pair of glasses but I haven't decided which ones to go with (I am planning on Julbos but haven't decided on a model yet). I have some compression sacks. I suppose I should list those. Also have some nice Zpacks cuben stuff sacks not included on the list. I am planning on a camera and iPod (but not the classic because it won't work). I also need to throw in a crevasses rescue kit (z-pulley and such). I thought I had a snow saw on there but noticed I forgot it on my list. Thanks.

[Mike Clelland]

I've spent over a decade teaching mountaineering (and guiding) in alaska, and I've been on Denali on the Muldrow.

QUESTIONS:
Are you part of a team of peers? Or on a guided trip?

How many on your team?

Are they all making an effort to lighten their overall loads?

I assume you're planning on the west buttress, right?

COMMENTS:
– Food and fuel are going to be the biggest weight, focus on that.

– It can get freekin' COLD above 17,000 – so be prepared for 40 below zero. That means huge mittens and thick down pants.

– Make a crampon case out of a tyvec mailing envelope (the lightest)

– softshell pants will work fine, make sure your insulating layers fit over them.

– someone on the team should have a snow saw, but not each person.

– THe mountaineering gear (ropes biners and snow protection) are safety gear, be very cautious how you trim that.

– one spare set of sunglasses for the team.

– you'll be fine without a thermos.

– take one pee-bottle for the team and simply share it. One liter is fine. Pour it out in the snow after each use.

– You'll be required to carry out your poo, so add the weight of a USPS plastic tube.

[S Long]

Thanks Mike. In answer to your question, I will be going unguided with a group of people I have been climbing with for years. I am planning on a team of four since I KNOW some of the guys that want to won't be able to go. We plan on the West Buttress. All of them will be trying to lighten their loads. I am planning on seriously cold weather. The Tyvec is a good idea. Thanks for the input.

[will sawyer]

rather than an extra pair, if you are worried about dropping them or setting them down, you could just sew a 6 or so foot long string between the two, and then thread that through one of your layers. You could also give them each individual string s only your outer layer if you know you will be wearing that whenever you will be wearing your mittens.

[Ken Larson]

NOLS has been in the business leading their alumni on Denali now for over 20 years. While the gear list items have changed with the times the philosophy behind each item still remains.

This is "2010" gear list…..check it out as it might answer many of the question posted so far.

http://www.nols.edu/courses/locations/alaska/denali_el.shtml

[Ben Barlin]

You will hate the Tibloc on the fixed above medical (14K) camp. You will be hanging on the ascender for a long time depending on how many idoits are above you. The rope is usually frayed and frozen and you will be manipulating it with big gloves on. Every time you come to a picket you have to unclip and then clip around the picket. Depending on how many pickets are in (I remember 17) this could be very frustrating, to you and the people behind you.

Also how do you plan to descend? The safest way is to have the last (highest) member on the rope use the ascender by feathering it on the way down, that way you have a safety in case of a fall. really can't do that with a tibloc. Notice the guy on the rope to the left descending with a full sized petzl. He is also watching the idoits on the up line. And yes it is that steep!

[Douglas Ray]

I haven't been to Denali, but I have a couple of comments about gear for glacier travel.

I much prefer to use roomier carabiners for rescue systems. They are the only thing I use Omega Pacific "Doval's" for. I also think real pully's that will tend a prussic are worthwhile. Improvising rope work can be really a pain with heavy mitt's on in cold conditions.

The Yates expedition picket is the lightest on the market, and as I understand how pickets work it probably will hold better than most others.

I'm guessing that the biggest area you could save weight as a team would be in fuel. It is probably worthwhile finding the most effecient combination of pot (probably one with a heat distribution device on the bottom) and stove.

[Richard Fischel]

go with whatever high altitude mitt you want, but also consider a pair of hestra heli gloves. since i added the heli's, my mitts pretty much stay packed away as my last resort option. i luv mitts for their warmth, but much rather wear gloves.

[S Long]

I have been revising, updating and fiddling with my list. Any comments, suggestions or additions on the new list?

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