Oct 29, 2010 at 7:19 pm #1264946
This thread comes out of a discussion of the recent rescue of a woman lost near Ingalls Lake. Eric Chan suggested it would be useful to have a forum devoted specifically to discussing mishaps, accidents and other unfortunate situations that occur to hikers and backpackers. The idea would be to use the incidents as an opportunity to learn and reexamine our own hiking/backpacking practices in order to increase our margin of safety and minimize situations where we inadvertantly put others at risk, be it our companions or SAR personnel.
Anybody else think this is an idea worth pursuing with BPL staff?Oct 30, 2010 at 9:25 am #1659549
Yes, I'd agree.Nov 4, 2010 at 1:43 pm #1661103
it would be useful to figure out what not to do … just like climbing incident reports
of at least make those choices conscious of the risks
just get rid of the outdoor retailer 2005 forum ;)Nov 4, 2010 at 2:17 pm #1661113
How would that help BPL at the bottom line?
BPL is obviously under financial stress right now (judging from product stocking). Adding another forum would just cost more.
–B.G.–Nov 4, 2010 at 2:25 pm #1661118
I dont know if they are under financial stress or not, but we shouldn"t assume they are because of product stocking. I seen them out of stock on alot of things for a LONG time now. Wouldn"t it be just a few hundred megs of space? ITs just text and the occasional image upload.Nov 4, 2010 at 2:29 pm #1661123
@bsenezLocale: New England
Have you seen this site: http://www.hikerhell.com/ it is focused on mistakes and analyzes them a little bit. The yearly publication 'Accidents in North American Mountaineering' is always a good read also.Nov 4, 2010 at 3:17 pm #1661149
"Adding another forum would just cost more."
???Nov 4, 2010 at 3:41 pm #1661157
Adding another forum would just cost BPL more money.
All web resources cost money. They cost machine cycles on the server. They cost coder salary. Storage costs money.
–B.G.–Nov 4, 2010 at 3:50 pm #1661163
"All web resources cost money. They cost machine cycles on the server. They cost coder salary. Storage costs money."
Any idea how much money you think we're talking about here, Bob? I can say with a fair degree of certainty that machine cycles are a nit for any low volume commercial application; we're not simulating a nuclear explosion here. Similarly, storage is pretty darn cheap these days. So that leaves us with one time coder salary, probably using a standard forum design app. If BPL is running so close to the bone that they couldn't afford to add another forum to the website, I truly feel sorry for all you Mlifer's out there.
Would BPL staff care to comment on the affordability of adding a forum, thereby laying this particular objection to rest or validating it?Nov 4, 2010 at 4:02 pm #1661171
Make them a deal they can't refuse.
Explain to BPL how this will aid its bottom line.
–B.G.–Nov 4, 2010 at 4:06 pm #1661174
@cobbermanLocale: Northern Colorado
I'm not sure that such a forum would specifically benefit the growth of their user base or paying members. The information would be useful, but as others have said, this information is already available elsewhere. I would rather have BPL concentrate their efforts on bringing quality information directly pertaining to lightweight/ultralight backpacking. Maybe the staff could get some input from SAR personnel and put together a series of articles about safety and some essential or recommended gear for the "surprise overnighter".
As for the rumor of BPL having financial difficulties as a result of items not being in stock, wouldn't they then begin pre-selling items until they were able to make the large purchase order with their suppliers?Nov 4, 2010 at 4:50 pm #1661198
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
u sund lik 1 dum dern capitolist tipes :).Nov 4, 2010 at 5:07 pm #1661202
I'm much more the capitalistic type than the capitolistic type.
–B.G.–Nov 4, 2010 at 6:09 pm #1661229
"u sund lik 1 dum dern capitolist tipes"
wuz dat tipe or tripe? :-]Nov 4, 2010 at 6:27 pm #1661241
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Costs a lot of effort, which means $$, to maintain something like this. Since hikerhell does a very good job already, why compete?
CheersNov 4, 2010 at 6:34 pm #1661248
@redmonkLocale: Greater California Ecosystem
If we can have a forum for every Outdoor Retail …. I bet BPL has the ability to make a safety forum, and, stay within budget.Nov 4, 2010 at 6:49 pm #1661258
Don't confuse ability with wherewithal.
–B.G.–Nov 4, 2010 at 7:03 pm #1661262
"Costs a lot of effort, which means $$, to maintain something like this."
Edited by Ouzel 11/5Nov 4, 2010 at 7:36 pm #1661269
@maynard76Locale: New England
Having known people who have been in horrible tragedies in the outdoors I can say its pretty useless to talk about what a specific person(s) did wrong or right.
the fact is the media and even the rescuers/NFS themselves have very little knowledge of what actually transpired. They simply go on assumptions, and even if those are reasonable well thought out assumptions they can be dead wrong.
using real events as examples is usually just building a house of cards. There can be so much more than meets the eye. Yet in the minds of those involved it is a simple straight forward case.
It is better to simply state a problem and provide possible solutions than play armchair detective.Nov 5, 2010 at 7:10 am #1661381
@akajutLocale: Central Oklahoma
I understood the request differently than some. I didn't see the request as "Create a new web site" or even spend more money. I thought the request was asking for a new topic just like "Gear Swap", "The G Spot", or "Make Your Own Gear". A new forum listed on the "Forum Index" page. Maybe under the "Campfire" or "General Forums"?Nov 5, 2010 at 7:33 am #1661388
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
Seems to me that keeping the customers alive is a very good customer service policy.
This idea that every new forum needs a demonstrable improvement in the bottom line is a bit much. Text forums aren't all that resource intensive– the photos take a lot more room. If you consider all the inane chat that goes on, adding a forum that promotes greater safety is a reasonable request. Setup time for a new forum is minimal.
From a business standpoint, any effort that improves quality and readership is good for the overall condition of the business— far less expensive than any form of paid advertising or promotion.Nov 5, 2010 at 8:15 am #1661398
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
From a business standpoint, any effort that improves quality and readership is good for the overall condition of the business— far less expensive than any form of paid advertising or promotion.
You are 100% correct.
However, I wonder is this Website is profitable at all. Or if BPL makes much money. If the Website as a stand alone entity does not make money, but drives traffic to the BPL store, and if the BPL store is profitable then enhancements are probably a good thing.
I imagine that those in charge look at each forum request, gauge the amount of potential interest, and respond accordingly.
There seems to be a lot of staff/moderators and from what I see available to sell, they can't be making much money. I also suspect that many involved might just be volunteering their time, such as moderators.Nov 5, 2010 at 10:58 am #1661447
i disagree that it would duplicate other efforts
what BPL can bring here is an empirical based approach where you use data, knowledge and statistics for risk evaluation
one of the more commonly cited concerns about going UL or even light is that you reduce the margin of safety for the "oh shiet" situation
unless you reduce or manage that fear factor … UL will always remain a niche
i dont think anyone else provides the scientific or even anecdotal basis that UL/Light does not mean yr any more or less unsafe
and even if it does mean yr not as "safe" .. without knowledge and discussion you cant perform a risk/reward evaluation
ie … should i bring bear spray on every hike? … is it worth carrying an emergency bivy sack? ….
climbers do it all the time when lightening up their load or choosing their routes … and the reason they can is because they know what has occured before … you can look up every accident on the north face of the eiger if yr doing that routeNov 5, 2010 at 5:14 pm #1661570
Since > http://www.hikerhell.com/ Hasn't been updated since Feb 2010, I think it's safe to presume that it isn't coming back anytime soon.
Also, it's much more of a news feed site, with no assessment or analysis of what went wrong, or opportunity for members to contribute.Nov 28, 2010 at 10:18 pm #1668900
I can easily add a new forum – it costs BPL nothing in terms of setting it up or maintaining it. It takes a good quantity of time to moderate such forums, despite our established light hand in such things.
However, our forum home page could quickly become difficult (more difficult?) to navigate if we added every conceivable topic. Can a few of you condense for me the top three reasons to add such a forum to our list? I can then bring it forward in a business meeting.
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